335 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

grayson marik, on 22 July 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

lol i dont get the problem.. start pure tech and if a IS unit salvages a clan mech, it might be used in battle again... maybe even some raid/loot/theft operations ?

use the lore to solve the problems^^

this is like we solved this matter in ISW and guess what? Clan units even sometimes do theft drops vs IS untis to get some fast scouts ;-)

Basically, yes. This was my proposal, but it did not get a lot of attention in the Featured Suggestions forum (like usual):

Cimarb, on 23 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

During a discussion, we were talking about how CW (Faction queue) will be implemented, and I feel a hard line between Clans and IS is a horrible way to do it. Instead, it should be a line drawn between EVERY faction, and the lines should be as malleable as the borders. This means that, if my unit wants to "unlock" the Dragon, but is a Marik unit, we have three ways to do so:

• Pay MC through the "Black Market". This would mean an instant unlock, but repair/rearm would also cost MC until one of the following other methods was accomplished.
  
• Gotta Collect Em All! This is the Pokemon approach to unlocking cross-faction equipment, where you earn salvage for defeating particular mechs in particular ways. This is a random dispersal, much like "loot" in other games, and adds that component to your inventory OR unlocks it if you have not already unlocked that chassis for use in CW. While IS mechs don't use Omnipods, the same method can be used by section, but only for the unlock. Once you collect all 8 sections, the mech chassis is unlocked in stock form, minus equipment. This can be tracked just like mech skills, but with a paper doll showing which parts are (un)locked. You are only eligible to unlock a component that meets the following criteria:
  
  • Must win match.
    
  • Component must not be destroyed.
• ​Planetary Ownage. Hold the planet the mech/component is manufactured on for a minimum of (7) days. Once this initial time has been met, you can then purchase (x) number of components/parts per day - such as a Dragon Left Arm, Gauss Rifle or 1 ton of LRM ammo - where (x) can be a fraction (resulting in only one being purchased every 5-6 days, for instance).

Repair/rearm. This is pivotal to a working CW. Making it dependent on planetary control or through salvage makes every fight and planet important. You can avoid this restriction through the use of MC, giving a method for PGI to make money through micro transactions as well as providing a method for every player to get any mech they desire if they are willing to pay for it. While MC purchases are currently available already, extending the MC store to include repair/rearm, as well as individual component purchase, also gives additional money flow opportunities without being "pay2win".

Salvage, on the other hand, allows those that do not have real money funds available to support the game through lots and lots of matches and a semi-random loot process. It is semi-random because you must disable the mech somehow to earn the salvage (conquest/assault wins would only get salvage off of mechs that were disabled before the end of match, for example), but whether you do it through a headshot, torso destruction or legging determines what salvage is possible. This makes it a mini-game, as well, as you actually have a reason for going after certain mechs in certain ways to earn a chance at the specific salvage you are trying to get.

So many possibilities with a system like this...

Thoughts?

[Gryphorim]

I gotta say, I always envisioned CW as having 3 ways to play
- Lone Wolf. - Players assigned to battles to fill slots. No R&R. No Faction specific bonuses/limitations

- Faction players - Players have individually or as a group, elected to play as members of a Faction.
Discounted access to faction specific hardware and unlocks to paint colours and patterns, based on loyalty points earned.
R&R Limited to specific Ammunitions/special purpose equipment, or even non-faction related stuff. Could even do R&R as just bonus multipliers to end-match earnings for keeping to low-cost tech.
End-goal to unlock access to Wolf's Dragoons or ComStar equipment.

-Merc Units - Unit fights together, leaders selecting faction allegiance for whole unit.
Unlocks are more granular & wide sweeping. All potential tech is up for grabs, but prices for purchase and upkeep of those techs vary based on allegiance and ownership of worlds. Unit leaders can design decals and nominate faction colours and patterns for cheaper purchase by unit members.
R&R enforced in full, but per-match earnings ramped up accordingly. Based on individual performance, you can strike it rich, or go flat broke. Unit takes percentage from all members.
End-goal - own a fortified world, with extensive defences and facilities, with consistent access to the most useful techs to the unit members.

My thoughts anyway....

[Khobai]

you should only be able to use clan mechs if youre in a clan faction. period.

as long as you can freely change factions I fail to see the problem.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Öhmm Khobai. No. When you are a Clan member....Your ingame TAG must bee Clan. When You are a Donegal...you will not run around with a Clan TAG. I think in not CW games, everyone should bee abel to use all mechs. IS must shoot down a Clanmech, b4 they should bee abel to use em. Mercenarys according to their contract. Working for Kurita gives you the Clan Mech. Davion will Keep em for themself. (see Merc Handbook)

So after a while..everyone has unlocked the Clanmechs. Finish.

Just Marik and Liao have to get em over the Black Market. (So you can pay to unlock Clan mechs)

Thats better.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Paul Inouye, on 18 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

A Clarification:

On a side note, I've seen the rumblings of people thinking that mixed teams of Clan and IS 'Mechs will be the norm from here on out. This is not the case. Faction (IS/Clan) combat is a big part of Community Warfare as are the skirmishes between the Houses themselves and the Clans themselves. This requires additional work to the database, player data and match making systems and will come out at a later time.

That is a comforting note, because the last thing I'd want to see in Community Warfare are IS forces composed of clanmechs fighting clanforces composed of IS mechs (ridiculously hillarious as that might be once or twice). I want to see Dragons, Thunderbolts, Atlases, Centurions, Hunchbacks, Griffins, Wolverines, Orions and so on and so forth on the IS side. Not a horde of Timberwolves or Warhawks.

Of course that is going to annoy those IS pilots who have bought clanmechs and who (at least in their own mind) justify that with their character having captured clan equipment. The problem with that line of thought, of course, being that this would mean the Clans are apparently either very careless about locking up their equipment at night, or they just give up and hand over their gear intact when seeing an IS opponent, given how many IS pilots possess clan stuff with that justification. Personally I'd like to see a "character division where if you have clan equipment you have to assign it to a "different character" than your IS character. That way you'd have one clan aligned character and one IS aligned character, and never shall the two share their gear.

Then again, I'm an old neckbeard grognard who feels the lore is important, which I suppose puts me in a bit of a minority among the total playerbase most likely.

[Escobar]

This raises up in my mind some thoughts on how I would expect CW to work. Keeping in mind that I dont follow very many threads here, maybe all of this has been discussed already to death.

There (in my mind) _must_ be a distinction in the game between my inventory that I have purchased, whether through MC or CBill, including all mechs, modules, and weapons, and what I have access to via my unit, and my play in the CW space.

-- As a player of MWO in a non-CW match, i should without restriction be able to take any item in to a match that I have purchased.
-- As a player of MWO in a CW match, playing on behalf of my unit (be it House, Clan or Merc) I should _only_ have access to the items in that unit inventory and supplemented maybe by a personal inventory that I have gained through CW play.

This distinction allows me to spend all the real money I want on MWO and always have access to those things in a game. Kind of a no-brainer there. But it allows CW to make some sense. What I have access to in CW is based then on the tech of my faction, be it high level Clan vs IS or the more detailed <insert Kurita/Davion/etc variants of a standard IS mech here>. What I have available to me in CW is also based on the success of my faction, my unit, and my own activities. This means then that I might play a captured clan mech even though I have not purchased a clan pack or that specific mech via CBill/MC. Again, my personal MWO inventory has no place in CW.

I should not be allowed in any way to open my wallet and buy anything that may impact in CW (aside from the various trinkets, cockpit adornments and such). Real money is for non-CW. CW needs to be a separate space in MWO without interference of Clan/Phoenix/Founders packs, Hero/Champions and whatever.

Add in rearm and refit and maybe we could hope to see something that lives up to the CW promise.

[Escobar]

N0MAD, on 22 July 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Hahaha, people expect CW to be more than, Chose a faction (i expect people will be able to chose multiple).
Some periphery planet will be under attack (chosen by the game) you can chose a faction for that battle and drop into pug matches to decide its fate. At some given number the planet is either taken over or defended, yay some one has won, move onto the next planet/moon the game has decided is next.
You expecting more than that, hahaha.

As much as I want to remain optimistic, I would bet as you suggest, that nothing better than a 'CW for the masses' will be coming from PGI. At least not in the next few years.

What I continue to hope for is that the MWO cockpit simulation continues its progress and that the actual mechanics of play improve in stability (state-rewind, re-connect, etc) and features (knock downs, DFA, turrets, etc...). Then, if you allow for an external interface to matchmaking (i heard it mentioned in the context of that web based private match organizer, the name of which escapes me right now), a better CW could be built (later by PGI or sooner by an external entity) which could launch missions under more advanced control, and which could take the results and apply them to a better CW persistent world state.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Escobar, on 25 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

As much as I want to remain optimistic, I would bet as you suggest, that nothing better than a 'CW for the masses' will be coming from PGI. At least not in the next few years.

What I continue to hope for is that the MWO cockpit simulation continues its progress and that the actual mechanics of play improve in stability (state-rewind, re-connect, etc) and features (knock downs, DFA, turrets, etc...). Then, if you allow for an external interface to matchmaking (i heard it mentioned in the context of that web based private match organizer, the name of which escapes me right now), a better CW could be built (later by PGI or sooner by an external entity) which could launch missions under more advanced control, and which could take the results and apply them to a better CW persistent world state.

CW for the masses? who is CW supposed to be for? And yes, in the next few years.

and that is theory my friend, nothing proven until tested.

[Cimarb]

Steinar Bergstol, on 25 July 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

Of course that is going to annoy those IS pilots who have bought clanmechs and who (at least in their own mind) justify that with their character having captured clan equipment. The problem with that line of thought, of course, being that this would mean the Clans are apparently either very careless about locking up their equipment at night, or they just give up and hand over their gear intact when seeing an IS opponent, given how many IS pilots possess clan stuff with that justification. Personally I'd like to see a &quot;character division where if you have clan equipment you have to assign it to a &quot;different character&quot; than your IS character. That way you'd have one clan aligned character and one IS aligned character, and never shall the two share their gear.

Then again, I'm an old neckbeard grognard who feels the lore is important, which I suppose puts me in a bit of a minority among the total playerbase most likely.

I most definitely do not want to have a dual personality. I would much rather work towards unlocking everything than have some sort of permanent lock that I can bypass just by "switching personas". It is much more lore-based to unlock things, as well, since that is how it happened in lore - over time, IS powers learned how to integrate and replicate Clan technology, and Clan forces did the same (though more in tactics than tech, of course). Lore is VERY important, and having an unlocking system is the best approach to keeping lore important.

[Reno Blade]

Yeah, something closer to leveling your reputation with x factions to level y or something to unlock mech/equip for use.

Playing in "pug mode" with whatever you want and beeing limited until you unlock stuff in "CW mode" would be my preference.

It would also give people who have a lot of mechs a "new reason" to play old mechs again.
lets say, you start as a Kurita House unit player and have access to Dragons, Catapults, Jenners, Vindicators and so on.
There could be 5 levels of restricted mechs and you would need to unlock them.
You could "unlock" everything up to lvl 2 with gxp or whatever which would give you access to most of your owned IS mechs, but not every one.
Once you unlock level 4 mechs, you could buy and use Clan mechs.
Level 5 would give you access to Comstar/Wolf Dragoons extras.

Just a rough idea, but I guess you get the point

[Haroldwolf]

N0MAD, on 18 June 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

So what happens if a member is recruited, puts into the Group fund and then thrown out what happens to his contribution, or the leader decides to raid the bank and leaves?
I ask this because a system very similar to this is in place on STO, it is widely abused.

Yea, this has been a weak area in most MMO guild magangement. I saw this happen several times in Dark Age of Camelot.

[Sandpit]

Reno Blade, on 25 July 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

It would also give people who have a lot of mechs a "new reason" to play old mechs again.
lets say, you start as a Kurita House unit player and have access to Dragons, Catapults, Jenners, Vindicators and so on.
There could be 5 levels of restricted mechs and you would need to unlock them.

Given track history, PGI's mentality in this regard, and the player base I just don't see that happening. They're not going to suddenly limit mech selection. So because I'm Marik I can't use all the mechs I've bought until I "level" up even though I've been playing and "leveling" up for 2 years?

It's just not something I can see them doing

[Noesis]

Reno Blade, on 25 July 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Yeah, something closer to leveling your reputation with x factions to level y or something to unlock mech/equip for use.

Playing in "pug mode" with whatever you want and beeing limited until you unlock stuff in "CW mode" would be my preference.

It would also give people who have a lot of mechs a "new reason" to play old mechs again.
lets say, you start as a Kurita House unit player and have access to Dragons, Catapults, Jenners, Vindicators and so on.
There could be 5 levels of restricted mechs and you would need to unlock them.
You could "unlock" everything up to lvl 2 with gxp or whatever which would give you access to most of your owned IS mechs, but not every one.
Once you unlock level 4 mechs, you could buy and use Clan mechs.
Level 5 would give you access to Comstar/Wolf Dragoons extras.

Just a rough idea, but I guess you get the point

Grind is bad. Penalises the casual player and pugs as I believe will be a part of CW efforts?

Its the old MMO fail grind for gear mentality that will simply ruin the fun and player choice.

I like the economical skewing of purchases based off loyalty if it is at least flexible to cater for a number of play styles and choices as opposed to being pidgeon holed or committed to having to earn these and perhaps with limited choice based off activity.

A handfull of unique achievements that could end up with the occasional free gifting or significant saving on certain purchases could offer these incentives. Likewise the re-introduction of more purposeful economical factors with the use of a Mech with R&R and salvage and the bias of tech prices could also make things more meaningful about loyalty choices. But outright exclusion to use asests or purchases doesnt appeal to me.

Edited by Noesis, 25 July 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Edward Mattlov]

If you choose to play a faction, you should be bound to using only what mechs and equipment are available to that faction except for rare circumstances (like maybe attaining a very high rank, or unlocking a difficult achievement).

[Noesis]

Edward Mattlov, on 25 July 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

If you choose to play a faction, you should be bound to using only what mechs and equipment are available to that faction except for rare circumstances (like maybe attaining a very high rank, or unlocking a difficult achievement).

So for lone wolves and mercs that's any Mech then?

Fair enough I can live with that.

Edited by Noesis, 25 July 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Noesis]

Interestingly:

Ed Steele said:

I have a Christmas bonus on the way, so give me some info that would make an IS player want a clan pack.

Bryan Ekman said:

lore - battlefield salvaged mechs put into service under your command. Still a valiant IS MechWarrior ready to kill clanners.

Ed Steele said:

Good answer, I will "salvage" some clan mechs with my credit card shortly!

Edited by Noesis, 25 July 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Sandpit]

Edward Mattlov, on 25 July 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

If you choose to play a faction, you should be bound to using only what mechs and equipment are available to that faction except for rare circumstances (like maybe attaining a very high rank, or unlocking a difficult achievement).

pssst read the quotes above my post

[Wibbledtodeath]

Absolute simplest way to promote faction based mech selection, without fully restricting people from using mechs they have purchased already is to provide a significant faction based advantage during CW matches only (but level playing field during PUG games- so really current use is not lost).

e.g. Faction mechs get skill bonuses applied in CW and PUG drops

Non faction mechs get bonuses applied in PUG matches only.

That said- I really do like the concept of IS mechs getting some kind of leg up via salvage (both CW and PUG)- i actually would enjoy some kind of grind collecting system of salvage ala MW mercs of old.

However this is an internet shooter not an RPG- so really players should be able to change sides to get variety (although units should not) as this doesn't really threaten continuity for other players.

Just my thoughts.

[Edward Mattlov]

Noesis, on 25 July 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

So for lone wolves and mercs that's any Mech then?

Fair enough I can live with that.

Yes, in the solo queue. Also, Mercs should be able to "salvage mechs", but they should also pay extremely high black market prices for any mechs or equipment.

Noesis, on 25 July 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Interestingly:

Ed Steele, was a mercenary at that time, I believe. Ed may yet salvage some clan mechs, but for now he is on a well deserved vacation.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

Then again, I'm an old neckbeard grognard who feels the lore is important, which I suppose puts me in a bit of a minority among the total playerbase most likely.

Yeah it's not like a unit founded by an ex-com star guy could end up after 3 years together having 4 clan mechs out of the 12 in their company.

Including a Masakari and 2 MadCats.

Oh wait...

Edited by Alexander Steel, 25 July 2014 - 10:45 PM.