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Clan Wolverine Is Recruiting


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#21 Malekhai

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 11:15 AM

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[color=#959595]But that means they are not Wolverines then quiaff? I am not an heir to the English Throne even though I am a Genetic relative. Also just a minor note, they would still have easily enough genetics left to be traced back.[/color]


Just because they are as genetically different from their IS counterparts doesnt mean they werent raised as members of Clan Wolverine in their own fashion. Imagine yourself as the IS counterpart to the english throne and Clan Wolverine as the royalty except they does not have DNA to prove they are royalty either. So, one could say they were raised for royalty (Being a Wolverine) but cant prove that they are.


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Minnesota Tribe was around in 2825 and disappeared completely without trace just at the Clan Invasion. ComStar took the body of the Richmond Soldier who piloted a pristine Lancelot and bore the numbers 331 on his jacket (which was the number of a Wolverine unit). Now one thing they didn't relay was that the 331 was destroyed during the Annihilation after being recalled to Circe. This insignia also is not the same as the 331 Star League Defense Unit. This Soldier was unveiled right after the Clans came to the Inner Sphere during the Schism. Meaning they had frozen the body for 250 years.


from Sarna:
[color=#000000]The army unit, which had now been labeled the "Minnesota Tribe," attacked [/color]Jarett[color=#000000], this time using massed AeroSpace Fighters to keep the Draconis Combine [/color]BattleMechs[color=#000000] out of the fight. The Tribe attacked for the last time on the planet [/color]Richmond[color=#000000], though it is unclear whether they knew about the jail that housed political prisoners before they freed them. The Tribe loaded the freed prisoners up in their [/color]DropShips[color=#000000] and left, never making their presence known in the [/color]Inner Sphere[color=#000000] again. ComStar continued to track the Tribe as it traveled in the [/color]Deep Periphery[color=#000000] towards the[/color]Federated Suns[color=#000000], only to lose the trail near [/color]Valentina

The Minnesota Tribe disapeared long long before the Clan Invasion. As it states, ComStar lost track of them shortly after their attack on the DCMS and were never seen since. Also the 331st Royal Battlemech Division was the SLDF unit that formed the core of Clan Wolverine, there was no specific 331st unit inside of Clan Wolverine that I know of as no records of their galaxies have been released.

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[color=#959595]Its recorded on Sarna when the Weir met Ebon while it was escaping. It is also in one of my sourcebooks (somewhere will give reference when I dig it out). Also McEvedy was already in chaos during the war and Frank may have resigned his position just before death so as to try and fall off the grid and escape. Never know, bad book keeping was the problem with this mess otherwise the Wolverine's fate would be known without Canon Rumor to use as speculation.[/color]


In the Sarna page where the information on Trish Ebon was listed it notes Franklin Hallis as being the Khan which is not possible with Sarah McEvedy being alive at Franklin Hallis death. And Franklin Hallis would most certaintly not have been trying to "fall off the grid". He fought a three hour duel with ilKhan Kerensky before losing. He headed up the entire defense force on Circe during the Annihilation. Also Hallis would not have dictated his successor to the saKhan position even if he resigned at death. That responsibility is the Khans (Sarah McEvedy). Also note, the Zugghoffer Weir was regrouping with the rest of the Wolverine fleet that had been allowed to escape at its seemingly suicide run through the Wolf Fleet.



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So that means there were a total of 200 someodd survivors.


Heh, 200 survivors on a McKenna would mean the ship was not operational. The operating crew of a McKenna is 758. Now imagine an a modern day Aircraft Carrier or a Destroyer. If you wanted to turn either of those vessels into an escape boat for a short period you could have several thousand refugees (More in the case of the carrier). Now the Wolverine fleet was not all McKennas nor was it all WarShips even. Jumpships could have housed a significant number of their surviving population.


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[color=#959595]Very true, but again could be just bad book keeping. 45% of the men who died the Civil War remained unidentified for 100 years. In WW2 thousands of people remained unidentified. In Iraq even there are many unidentified fallen.[/color]

[color=#959595]But yes large number of 60,000. But if that many escaped it would take up to 300 (or more) McKenna Class ships to escape with them. I think that many didn't escape as 300 McKenna's would be very noticeable quiaff?[/color]


True, however 60000 escaping Wolverines is a rather low estimate I believe. The population of Circe in Sarna is listed as 37 million with Clan Wolf and Snow Raven occupying. Say the population was significantly lower when Snow Raven and Wolverine were occupying at a 1:1 ratio between the two. Assuming around 15 million in population on the planet at the time of Annihilation with 7.5 million with Clan Wolverine then their surviving population would be approx 1.5 million after annihilation. Take off 500000 in desertion, disease and other losses leaving you with a million Wolverine refugees escaping to the Inner Sphere. Jumpships, Dropships, and Warships all could house that population. I mean Clan Ghost Bear transported their entire population (Significantly larger than the measly one million Wolverine refugees) after Tukayyid to the Inner Sphere.

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#22 The Gruntmaster 6000

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 06:30 PM

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True, however 60000 escaping Wolverines is a rather low estimate I believe. The population of Circe in Sarna is listed as 37 million with Clan Wolf and Snow Raven occupying. Say the population was significantly lower when Snow Raven and Wolverine were occupying at a 1:1 ratio between the two. Assuming around 15 million in population on the planet at the time of Annihilation with 7.5 million with Clan Wolverine then their surviving population would be approx 1.5 million after annihilation. Take off 500000 in desertion, disease and other losses leaving you with a million Wolverine refugees escaping to the Inner Sphere. Jumpships, Dropships, and Warships all could house that population. I mean Clan Ghost Bear transported their entire population (Significantly larger than the measly one million Wolverine refugees) after Tukayyid to the Inner Sphere.

A fleet of that size would be EASILY noticed in Clan Space (yes?). I think it likely if any survived it was a small number and the population of the Wolverines in Civies was 300000 at the time. Circe was also populated by Hell's Horses (at the time briefly) so we must split the pop of the planet into 4ths now. Not only that Wolverine is described as one of the absolute smallest at its time. Clan Ghost Bear didn't have to worry about moving about in hiding.

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In the Sarna page where the information on Trish Ebon was listed it notes Franklin Hallis as being the Khan which is not possible with Sarah McEvedy being alive at Franklin Hallis death. And Franklin Hallis would most certaintly not have been trying to "fall off the grid". He fought a three hour duel with ilKhan Kerensky before losing. He headed up the entire defense force on Circe during the Annihilation. Also Hallis would not have dictated his successor to the saKhan position even if he resigned at death. That responsibility is the Khans (Sarah McEvedy). Also note, the Zugghoffer Weir was regrouping with the rest of the Wolverine fleet that had been allowed to escape at its seemingly suicide run through the Wolf Fleet.

But then wouldn't the rest of the fleet be with Weir when it was taken by Comstar? And also if they were Minnesota Tribe why would they run from the Inner Sphere? They had a Technological advantage, and could have easily taken new worlds. UNLESS!? *Conspiracy alert* Minnesota Tribe was actually taken by ComStar or were agents of Comstar who then claimed they lost the group (which would also explain the tech if they had been upgrading on their Star League stuff).

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The Minnesota Tribe disapeared long long before the Clan Invasion. As it states, ComStar lost track of them shortly after their attack on the DCMS and were never seen since. Also the 331st Royal Battlemech Division was the SLDF unit that formed the core of Clan Wolverine, there was no specific 331st unit inside of Clan Wolverine that I know of as no records of their galaxies have been released.

A number of the members also split away from the group as well, and history does not tell us if the entire unit left the Inner Sphere, which could be another Minnesota Tribe Explanation.

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Just because they are as genetically different from their IS counterparts doesnt mean they werent raised as members of Clan Wolverine in their own fashion. Imagine yourself as the IS counterpart to the english throne and Clan Wolverine as the royalty except they does not have DNA to prove they are royalty either. So, one could say they were raised for royalty (Being a Wolverine) but cant prove that they are.

Which would mean their royalty is illegitimate and are not true heirs either yes? You can say what you want but a Monarchy is determined by genetic relation (a true one is). You see a person raised non Clan is not a Clan even if related. A person raised Clan is not Inner Sphere even if related. Clan Wolverine is dead in terms of the Clan even if relatives exist in the Inner Sphere because they are no longer Clan. Although Clan Wolverine did not accept Clan ways so in reality they are not Clan either (especially considering they would rather run than die in their Trial of Annihilation *that's called cowardice* no offense intended).

What we are doing here is debating the change in terms but changing a definition does not change a fact.

But Anyways I don't want to troll or anger you so I'll let you have it (but if you are sticking to Weir theory I'd make my people descendants of Wolverines who deserted the ship on the way to the Inner Sphere otherwise you are a WoB unit and then we'd have problems cause I HATE Blakists).

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Just because they are as genetically different from their IS counterparts doesnt mean they werent raised as members of Clan Wolverine in their own fashion.

So you are a Inner Sphere unit trained like the Star League and took up the name of the Wolverine? Because without your ancestors being there you'd never have known about the Clan. Or are you distant relatives who saw the attack from afar?

See your choices here are:You are Weir survivor heirs and are now Wobbies, Are Minnesota Tribe and hence forth not in known space in this universe, or are Inner Sphere relatives left behind when the Clan left, because we don't know how many (if any if we are being realistic) escaped.

But again I don't want to troll or anything and I find your stuff very interesting. Maybe sometime in the future or in a PM we could talk more.

#23 Malekhai

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:36 PM

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#24 Malekhai

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 07:59 AM

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#25 Malekhai

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:31 AM

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#26 Malekhai

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 07:12 AM

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#27 The Gruntmaster 6000

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 05:31 PM

Bump

#28 Tuefel Hunden

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:39 AM

Bumpage

#29 Egomane

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:55 AM

To many bumps!

For recruitment threads only one per day is allowed. For all other purposes, none at all!

Please reduce your bumps to an acceptable level!

#30 Malekhai

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 12:34 PM

Well it was going good at one per day until today hehe

#31 Lily from animove

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 05:54 AM

what if the ghost bears only said there was no genetic trace, because they didn't wanted to admit there are many out there of them having spread uncontrolled?

What if comstar contains them? Wouldn't it make sense for them if they can also grab some genetic enhanced clanners to make use of that instead only their technology?

#32 bane

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 06:33 AM

Clan Wolverine was not in the eugenics program, so would not have enhanced mechwarriors, et al. They did have improved technology and ships that most houses would have been envious of, though.

The problem with the premise of being Clan Wolverine or Clan Widowmaker for that matter, is that the clans cannot exist in any formal manner or the other clans would be forced to annihilate them. Probably even to the point of halting an invasion into the Inner Sphere. It's a stain on their honor and would be abhorrent to their very beings. They also would not be In-Exile, cause that implies hope, they have no hope as far as Clan society goes, they would be viewed as the lowest level of anything and destroyed.

Also, I'd have to dig up the reference, but it was pretty much assumed that the remnants that entered into IS space ended up being taken by Comstar and integrated, both resources and people. Course, I wouldn't put it past Comstar to have killed them to a man as well.

Consider it a free bump ;)

#33 Bhodi Li773

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 07:43 AM

The biggest question seems to be whether or not Clan Wolverine had a core group escape.Since they knew ahead of time it is possible a few ships could have done multiple escape runs b4 they were hit by the clans.They knew they were going down and were dezgra in the clans view so options were. 1 fight and die 2 escape to never be seen 3 escape to eventually return/recover their honor.Since they didn't really have an eugenics program yet at this time they could have taken genetics samples and re-started their bloodlines with new sibkos of their honored clanfathers, while in escape/exile.Just look at the planets in faction map currently and there are many more unknown/undiscovered/ignored because they were deemed worthless by the clans.What better place to hide and replenish/re-establish than a planet the rest of the clans deem worthless and not worth fighting over let alone even bothering to claim. A few scientist caste, a few military caste to act as trainers to sibkos and a few hundred people could easily raise a whole new Clan Wolverine banner. No infighting to waste resources on or lose pilots/people and unhindered sibko development could restore the clan in a few decades to full fighting numbers.

I basically like the idea of a "renegade" :ph34r: Clan Wolverine waiting out in the shadows to return on a :angry: blood vendetta against the rest of the clans. This could even be an "out " to have a fully outfitted clan fight against the clan invasion or even be a neutral party causing havoc with the clans during their IS invasion or afterwards.The enemy of my enemy is my ally/friend.I am a loyal fan of battletech/MW but MWO is going to be like a whole new splinter /alternate timeline.We can use the tabletop etc to dictate mech loadouts and more but gameplay will not reflect what happened in the "original" Mechwarrior universe leaving us with so many options its hard to fathom :blink: .Just like BSG or any game out their "WE" will dictate what will happen by our actions ingame not as the story was told to us by FASA/Battletech that all of us fans love so much.

My best to Clan Wolverine and their possibly return to the MechWarrior universe.The more the merrier and the bettter the game will be because of it .

Edited by Bhodi Li773, 26 September 2014 - 07:46 AM.


#34 Malekhai

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 10:22 AM

View PostBhodi Li773, on 26 September 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

The biggest question seems to be whether or not Clan Wolverine had a core group escape.Since they knew ahead of time it is possible a few ships could have done multiple escape runs b4 they were hit by the clans.They knew they were going down and were dezgra in the clans view so options were. 1 fight and die 2 escape to never be seen 3 escape to eventually return/recover their honor.Since they didn't really have an eugenics program yet at this time they could have taken genetics samples and re-started their bloodlines with new sibkos of their honored clanfathers, while in escape/exile.Just look at the planets in faction map currently and there are many more unknown/undiscovered/ignored because they were deemed worthless by the clans.What better place to hide and replenish/re-establish than a planet the rest of the clans deem worthless and not worth fighting over let alone even bothering to claim. A few scientist caste, a few military caste to act as trainers to sibkos and a few hundred people could easily raise a whole new Clan Wolverine banner. No infighting to waste resources on or lose pilots/people and unhindered sibko development could restore the clan in a few decades to full fighting numbers.

I basically like the idea of a "renegade" :ph34r: Clan Wolverine waiting out in the shadows to return on a :angry: blood vendetta against the rest of the clans. This could even be an "out " to have a fully outfitted clan fight against the clan invasion or even be a neutral party causing havoc with the clans during their IS invasion or afterwards.The enemy of my enemy is my ally/friend.I am a loyal fan of battletech/MW but MWO is going to be like a whole new splinter /alternate timeline.We can use the tabletop etc to dictate mech loadouts and more but gameplay will not reflect what happened in the "original" Mechwarrior universe leaving us with so many options its hard to fathom :blink: .Just like BSG or any game out their "WE" will dictate what will happen by our actions ingame not as the story was told to us by FASA/Battletech that all of us fans love so much.

My best to Clan Wolverine and their possibly return to the MechWarrior universe.The more the merrier and the bettter the game will be because of it .

Now that is always an amusing thought. Fasa was cruel with their april fools joke (The Orca). http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orca

View PostLily from animove, on 26 September 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

what if the ghost bears only said there was no genetic trace, because they didn't wanted to admit there are many out there of them having spread uncontrolled?

What if comstar contains them? Wouldn't it make sense for them if they can also grab some genetic enhanced clanners to make use of that instead only their technology?

Part of the interest in Clan Wolverine is the diverse number of possibilities after their canon lore ends where canon rumor dominates the information.

View Postbane, on 26 September 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

Clan Wolverine was not in the eugenics program, so would not have enhanced mechwarriors, et al. They did have improved technology and ships that most houses would have been envious of, though.

The problem with the premise of being Clan Wolverine or Clan Widowmaker for that matter, is that the clans cannot exist in any formal manner or the other clans would be forced to annihilate them. Probably even to the point of halting an invasion into the Inner Sphere. It's a stain on their honor and would be abhorrent to their very beings. They also would not be In-Exile, cause that implies hope, they have no hope as far as Clan society goes, they would be viewed as the lowest level of anything and destroyed.

Also, I'd have to dig up the reference, but it was pretty much assumed that the remnants that entered into IS space ended up being taken by Comstar and integrated, both resources and people. Course, I wouldn't put it past Comstar to have killed them to a man as well.

Consider it a free bump ;)


You would think thatd be an issue, but past league play indicates otherwise :P MW4's MechReg planetary had Clan Wolverine leading the clan invasion with one of our members as ilKhan. Wolverine actually conquered Terra twice if I am remembering correctly (After the first reset).

And the in-Exile tag was added to the end so we fit the naming scheme. We figured that fit the lore most accurately. We were debating with Clan Wolverine Exodus for awhile as well.

Also, just for those that look at the end before the beginning, Clan Wolverine is still recruiting! Everyone is accepted into the Clan as a cadet with a two week period before their Trial of Position. Our TS is given once you sign up and everyone usually plays EST nights and most of the day on weekends.

#35 bane

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:04 AM

The other sad thing for Clan Wolverine is that they were gone before the Omnimech was introduced by Clan Coyote in 2854, since they were annihilated in 2823ish.

I'll stop hijacking your thread now, good luck with the recruitments!

#36 Malekhai

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 11:15 AM

bump

#37 Tuefel Hunden

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 06:25 AM

Had some really good drops last night. One particular drop in the new map was incredible. Izril did a great job.

#38 Malekhai

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:36 AM

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#39 Malekhai

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:08 PM

Fixing to do some Trials of Position on Sunday for a few new cadets!

#40 Tuefel Hunden

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 12:43 PM

The trial of Bloodright was neat.





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