16 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

A little intro to that title.

Every time I have to use a "throw" away mech to unlock mastery trees, it causes me to lose interest in playing. It's not that I lose interest in the game, it's simply frustrating try to use a stock underpowered mech that I will simply sell once Im are done with it. I mean come on SHS suck!!

So have we ever heard anything from Dev's about changing the way we have to "Master" a mech? Could we maybe do a lease program with the mechs we dont want and are simply using to level the masteries? Maybe pay half price on the mech and you can only have it for XXX amount of time.

Lets say we lease the mech using C-Bills. Each day you have it, you are charged XXX amount of C-Bills and you can only lease the mech for a 1 week or two weeks and/or you cant lease it again for another week, month or etc etc. No lease to buy program either.

This could also help out buyers remorse as well when someone uses real money or Cbills to "buy" a mech.

My whole rant is that I do not play much and having to waste CBills on a mech I dont want is a big turn off to the game.

Mogs

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 June 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[Felio]

The whole XP/mastery system is going to be getting reworked. It's confusing to new players (I need to unlock what to get the huh now? On how many of what?) and can't be customized in any way. What form it will take may not even be known yet internally.

I'm with you on having to choose between wasting cbills upgrading and playing a crappy mech until you finish the basic XP.

Also, please see my signature.

[mogs01gt]

Felio, on 19 June 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

The whole XP/mastery system is going to be getting reworked.

Did the Devs post something or was it in a Vlog?

[Felio]

mogs01gt, on 19 June 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Did the Devs post something or was it in a Vlog?

I'm sorry, it was a long time ago and I don't remember where. Hopefully some other players remember and can confirm it for you.

[Bishop Steiner]

No, it is not. he current system was always meant to increase grind and thus increase the chance of using GXP to speed it up. Thus increasing the chances of using real money/mc to convert waste XP to GXP to speed things up.

The basis is a subtle, and pretty typical in F2P ploy to increase chance of getting you, especially those short on time, to spend IRL money.

Since Closed Beta, many people have argued that one should have the option of grinding ONLY on the variants and chassis they want, even if the XP rates had to be doubled or tripled to do so.

[RedAnxiety]

Felio, on 19 June 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I'm sorry, it was a long time ago and I don't remember where. Hopefully some other players remember and can confirm it for you.

Check the NGNG pod casts. They've talked about it a couple times I think. I'd be (happily) surprised if we see this before CW launch.

[Davers]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

No, it is not. he current system was always meant to increase grind and thus increase the chance of using GXP to speed it up. Thus increasing the chances of using real money/mc to convert waste XP to GXP to speed things up.

The basis is a subtle, and pretty typical in F2P ploy to increase chance of getting you, especially those short on time, to spend IRL money.

Since Closed Beta, many people have argued that one should have the option of grinding ONLY on the variants and chassis they want, even if the XP rates had to be doubled or tripled to do so.

But PGI is unlikely to change it as it is a time and Cbill sink too. Maybe if they tripled the cost of everything and XP requirements as well. But that would make it even harder off new players as well. 4.5 million DHS anyone?

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

No, it is not. he current system was always meant to increase grind and thus increase the chance of using GXP to speed it up. Thus increasing the chances of using real money/mc to convert waste XP to GXP to speed things up.

Im not sure how anyone could justify spending real money on a disposable mech.

Quote

The basis is a subtle, and pretty typical in F2P ploy to increase chance of getting you, especially those short on time, to spend IRL money.

This is not the typical F2P model. Most F2P game models allow you to use in game funds to "purchase" mechs/toons(LoL) and real money is used for game content. Just looked at LoL, DOTA(all toons are free) or Prime World. MWO has a rare mastery tree which requires in-game funds are to be used on toons/mechs that you may not need.

That would be compared in LoL to me having to use funds to unlocked champ A which will allow my to use funds to get champ B, B being the champ i wanted.

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 June 2014 - 11:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 19 June 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Im not sure how anyone could justify spending real money on a disposable mech.

This is not the typical F2P model. Most F2P game models allow you to use in game funds to "purchase" toons(LoL) and real money is used for game content. Just looked at LoL, DOTA(all toons are free) or Prime World.

Same way people can justify watching a movie, that turns out to be bad. Or any other purchase. If one has no choice but to have bad mech, period, and one has the funds, but not the time to want to devote to it, spending a few bucks to skip hours of grind is perfectly sensible.

For many of us, time is scarcer than money, and if I am spending my "free" time playing a game, I want to do it to enjoy it, not grind through a PoJ.

[Agent of Change]

An element of this game that isn't actively being in a stompy mech is set up in a non optimal manner!?

Say it ain't so!

In all seriousness I don't really think there is a problem with the multi-chassis requirement to mastery of a mech. I do have a bit of an issue with the tree and well everything else about mastery.

[Pygar]

I'd like to see more skills added, I'd like to see some of the skills/modules get "rebalanced", and I'd like to see some way to pull sandbagged XP off of mastered mechs without using MC to convert it.

But otherwise yes, it's a decent skill/XP system.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Same way people can justify watching a movie, that turns out to be bad. Or any other purchase.

I can return a product I deem bad or get a refund on a movie. Also, not sure how that applies since we arent referring to real money.

Quote

If one has no choice but to have bad mech, period, and one has the funds, but not the time to want to devote to it, spending a few bucks to skip hours of grind is perfectly sensible.

Spending money to turn around and throw it away is mental. Again comparing MWO to other F2P models, you can see that people spend money to get game content that isnt required. Mastering a mech is fairly required since it improves game mechanics.

Quote

For many of us, time is scarcer than money, and if I am spending my "free" time playing a game, I want to do it to enjoy it, not grind through a PoJ.

Well that is irrelevant. You cant justify a bad design by saying "well I have more money to spend than someone else so its fine." A bad design will always be bad no matter how much money people throw at it.

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 June 2014 - 11:21 AM.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

Agree completely with Bishop Steiner. The current skill progression is shallow and only exists to give incentive to purchasing more of the same 'Mech, and 'Mech bays for the copies. I understand the reasoning behind it, however I wish that they found a more interesting way to promote players spend money while leveling up their skills.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 19 June 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

I can return a product I deem bad or get a refund on a movie. Also, not sure how that applies since we arent referring to real money.

Spending money to turn around and throw it away is mental. Again comparing MWO to other F2P models, you can see that people spend money to get game content that isnt required. Mastering a mech is fairly required since it improves game mechanics.


Well that is irrelevant. You cant justify a bad design by saying "well I have more money to spend than someone else so its fine." A bad design will always be bad no matter how much money people throw at it.

and you totally miss the point, but that is ok. Simple fact. 2-3 bucks for a "wasted" mech, or 6-8 hours of wasted time? Those hours are worth more than 2-3 bucks. Period.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

and you totally miss the point, but that is ok. Simple fact. 2-3 bucks for a "wasted" mech, or 6-8 hours of wasted time? Those hours are worth more than 2-3 bucks. Period.

It's more than $2-$3. It's $2-$3 times X(x being the number of mechs have to purchase to unlock masteries for the mech you want). Then if you dont keep the mech, that $2-3 turns into what .50 return? Besides, you even proved my point, the time is wasted with mechs we dont need.

Again, because a person has more disposable income compared to someone else, doesnt mean a flawed concept is acceptable.

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 June 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 19 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's more than $2-$3. It's $2-$3 times X(x being the number of mechs have to purchase to unlock masteries for the mech you want). Then if you dont keep the mech, that $2-3 turns into what .50 return? Besides, you even proved my point, the time is wasted with mechs we dont need.

Again, because a person has more disposable income compared to someone else, doesn't mean a flawed concept is acceptable.

I never argued that the system was good. I simply said that looking down on those who are willing to spend money on GXP is asinine. Even with n improved system, people will still spend money or not, based on their individual circumstances.

I simply said, in the current system, I already have to spend time grinding to buy a chassis I probably don't want. If I want any chance of grinding it at a decent rate, then you spend even more cbills (aka grind) upgrading it. Or I can skill the upgrades, and the grind of the Pilot Tree, by using those GXP i converted on the 50% sale, to burn through the Raven-2Xs pilot tree, and not waste time on it. Now, it is done, for minimal grind (cost of new chassis, and nothing wasted on upgrades) and out of the way so that I can enjoying playing my 3L or 4X as the case may be. Yes, that is 2-3 bucks, then doen.

Whether it suits your vision of how I should do it or not, is totally irrelevant, as I am sure I can look at your life and shake my head and judge you on a dozen things you "waste" money one, be it getting a coffee at McDonalds instead of making it at home, or whatever.

The current pilot tree model IS crap,. as I stated from the outset. But it doesn't give you the right to look down your nose at people who handle it differently that you would.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I never argued that the system was good. I simply said that looking down on those who are willing to spend money on GXP is asinine. Even with n improved system, people will still spend money or not, based on their individual circumstances.

I simply said, in the current system, I already have to spend time grinding to buy a chassis I probably don't want. If I want any chance of grinding it at a decent rate, then you spend even more cbills (aka grind) upgrading it. Or I can skill the upgrades, and the grind of the Pilot Tree, by using those GXP i converted on the 50% sale, to burn through the Raven-2Xs pilot tree, and not waste time on it. Now, it is done, for minimal grind (cost of new chassis, and nothing wasted on upgrades) and out of the way so that I can enjoying playing my 3L or 4X as the case may be. Yes, that is 2-3 bucks, then doen.

Whether it suits your vision of how I should do it or not, is totally irrelevant, as I am sure I can look at your life and shake my head and judge you on a dozen things you "waste" money one, be it getting a coffee at McDonalds instead of making it at home, or whatever.

The current pilot tree model IS crap,. as I stated from the outset. But it doesn't give you the right to look down your nose at people who handle it differently that you would.

Awesome! I thought you were arguing for it lol. But Im not looking down at people for spending money, Im look down at MWO's F2P model compared to other games that give people more for their money. I think the main issue is that this game gives you less for time spent.

and I wont spend money on coffee since I get it at home or free at work .