95 replies to this topic

[Sixthdegree]

i'm am also on cbill mechs. i can def attest to the whole getting ***** thing. it's kind of disheartening to my once 1k dmg. that said, i also play a battlemaster, they only have basics unlocked, but they do not die any faster than the clan mechs i fight. i run an xl engine in it also. the battlemaster can hold it's own. now, my cicada? that's a completely different story, i literally get 1 shot, literally. i have max armor in my torsos, run a xl 320 engine so i'm fast, nup, as soon as i try to launch my uav i am struck down in 1 blow, i've done a total of 25 dmg every game, i've run 3 games before i gave up on that dream.

the clan is supposed to be superior, it's part of the lore, it cant happen any other way. pgi did a fantastic job integrating them into the game and they look stunning! they perform as intended with lore. they are supposed to kick is ass. and i do usually see equal gameplay on both sides, so one side isnt more powerful than the other, but me personally, i get my butt handed to me on a silver platter. so much to the point i just dont want to play anymore til i can also have a clan mech.

the lore is a great story. i actually wouldnt mind just following it in progression without playing the game it's that interesting and thorough. but you cant create a pvp only game 12 v 12 and follow the story line. you cant just drop clan mechs mixed with the IS mechs and call it an invasion. clans are the invaders and therefore fight only against the IS right? so theoretically IS should be on their knees like i usually am during gameplay. one thing pgi didnt integrate when they introduced a mech so far superior to their current IS mechs is that clan fighters NEVER ganged up on one mech. they had to fight off by themselves the IS who knew how to fight in numbers to defeat the overpowerful clan. pgi cant make this happen as it is a pvp game, not pve. so it is a great idea to follow story line, but it doesnt currently work with the game they created.

[Hangfire]

A couple of IS lights moving fast can isolate and tear apart a Clan mech, it's a good time to be an inner sphere light mech pilot

[Atheus]

Hangfire, on 20 June 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

A couple of IS lights moving fast can isolate and tear apart a Clan mech, it's a good time to be an inner sphere light mech pilot

How exactly do you isolate a clan mech? Doesn't he have to isolate himself, or have been abandoned by his team? If that's all that happened, yeah good on you for capitalizing in your faster mech, but you're still talking about a 2+ vs. 1 scenario, meaning the rest of your team is also outnumbered at the moment. Otherwise, good luck finding a 12 vs. 6 match I guess?

Edited by Atheus, 20 June 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Hangfire]

Well you're not gonna get a 12 v 6 match, so you 'squirrel' and draw the mechs away from the blob, same way you do with IS mechs, just Clan mech are easier to tear down once you've isolated them. rinse and repeat, simples.

[jper4]

my battlemasters have been getting shredded as i've been trying to grind the non 1S ones through basics so i can go elite the 1S. most matches i don;t even break 100 dmg, go to support a teammate get shredded by a blinding array of lasers from multiple sources while said teammate uses my arrival to escape. at least when it was just IS mechs i could maybe back my way back around the corner to safety, now as soon as i start getting shot i may as well charge into the mess since i'm dead either way.

granted i'm a lousy assault pilot (mutters something about slugs stuck in mud swimming through a tarpit dropped into molten lava) but my locusts shouldn't be better contributors to my team than my assault mechs.

[1453 R]

*Sigh*

All right, folks. As one particularly intelligent forum poster put it: “the Clans are not at a 10 to 1 power scale with Inner Sphere ‘Mechs. They’re not even at a two to one.”

What you’re seeing right now is the shake-up from the biggest single change in MWO’s meta and balancing in ever. Eight new ‘Mechs all at once with a completely new build system that gives them almost limitless sub-variants, and literally more than double the weapon count. People are using the hizzell out of them, and some of them can do things the Inner Sphere’s never seen before. Nobody has fought a ‘Mech with sixteen hardpoints and jump jets before, and nobody’s fought LRM ‘Mechs that can also carry significant secondary armaments and still hit 90kph. People aren’t used to seeing ‘Mechs with XL weight savings not go down after a side torso loss.

Frankly, people aren’t used to any of it. But they’ll get there.

For a few weeks here the Clans are going to be the New Hotness and they’ll be just about all anyone will see in most games, barring people who couldn’t afford them and/or the N.O.P.E. hipsters who still insist on playing this game even as they try their damnedest to make sure it fails. After that, though? Start expecting to see the beginnings of a Clanbuster resurgence as pilots decide they’re done with their shiny new toys and start turning their attention back to old Inner Sphere favorites, and how to make those favorites dance in the new environment.

We’re already seeing some of it – Splatcats are starting to show up more and more in my games, skulking about the edges the way they’ve always done and tearing apart most anything other than a 4xSRM-6 TBR-S with their shenanigans. The E-NARC module gives things like the RVN-3L a new lease on their original purpose, and has thusly improved LRM play for both sides. Popsnipers are still a thing, and the Boomjags never left. Not even going to talk about the number of Spiders and Firestarters I’ve seen trolling around laughing at the Clans’ longer time-on-target weapons. Good luck holding a UAC/20 burst on a Firestarter, buddy. There’s a reason I’m gravitating towards LBX guns for my big boomers in the Clan ‘Mechs.

Things will even out. All you need to do is deal with the turbulence for a few more weeks, and pay close attention to the Guides forum/non-QQ threads in GD here. There’ll be anti-Clan developments before you know it. Heck, you might even figure out a few yourself, if only you can stick with it and weather the Invasion©.

[Praehotec8]

I don't know...I will admit that I have only played a few matches in IS mechs since the clans came, but I haven't noticed a huge difference in my performance.

I played a match with my LRM-oriented stalker with a STD 260 engine, and still felt nimble and quick compared to the dire wolf. I also managed to survive the match after having lost one entire side of my mech (leg, arm, ST), did reasonable damage, and got more kills than I've managed to in any of my clan mechs.

The clan mechs feel great to pilot,I love the aesthetics, and they generally aren't underpowered, but I also don't think any are egregiously broken.

Pure anecdotal evidence obviously, but thus far, it feels like the usual growing pains associated with people wanting to use the "new shinies", and people adapting to all of the changes.

[Sug]

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

Edit: never mind. I see what you're driving at. For some reason I read "Dragonslayer" when you wrote Dragon. It's still a weird point, since the guy you were responding to was basically saying the opposite... the mechs that seem overpowered now aren't even in their Super Saiyan form yet.

I said I felt the clan mechs were pretty weak for a couple reason, he said to wait until they get Mastered and then they'll be better, I said Mastered trees and modules didn't help the Dragon and the Awesome.

[Rampancy]

Sug, on 20 June 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

I said I felt the clan mechs were pretty weak for a couple reason, he said to wait until they get Mastered and then they'll be better, I said Mastered trees and modules didn't help the Dragon and the Awesome.

The Awesome and Dragon may actually see new life vs. Clan mechs. I've been doing really well vs. the Clans when I've been piloting my Awesome because the DoT nature of the weapons allow you to take advantage of the Awesome's enhanced torso twist to spread the damage. 3 PPCs is more than enough firepower to compete up to about 700m, and if they close range the super short burn time on the isMPL means I'm more than comfortable finishing up a softened clanner with a few rapidly-delivered 18 point bursts.

The Dragon's CT is way harder to focus down with clan weapons so they may become viable as well, I haven't really used them a whole lot, though.

[Sug]

RampancyTW, on 20 June 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

The Awesome and Dragon may actually see new life vs. Clan mechs. I've been doing really well vs. the Clans when I've been piloting my Awesome because the DoT nature of the weapons allow you to take advantage of the Awesome's enhanced torso twist to spread the damage. 3 PPCs is more than enough firepower to compete up to about 700m, and if they close range the super short burn time on the isMPL means I'm more than comfortable finishing up a softened clanner with a few rapidly-delivered 18 point bursts.

The Dragon's CT is way harder to focus down with clan weapons so they may become viable as well, I haven't really used them a whole lot, though.

Been having fun in my AWS-8R thanks to the SRM changes. Haven't tried my old Dragon yet. Fast mechs with high alphas are still the best option but vs the Clan mechs they have an even bigger advantage since every Clan weapon essentially uses a beam weapon mechanic and beam weapons are still bad.

[Bigg Robb]

Great posts guys, and good job keeping it civil.

If I can reiterate, I'm not complaining nor giving up. I'm not whining or quitting. I think PGI did a great job. am however pointing out that all the folks saying Clan Mechs aren't superior are simply wrong. This is escalation, which will effectively nullify older equipment. And it was inevitable.

Again- zellbrigen, Clan salvage (my favorite Shadowhawk build rocked a CERPPC), and numerical superiority are all things that isn't, can't, or won't be implemented. I could be wrong but I don't think we'll be seeing 5v12 as a drop option in open play.

There is a reason that a Timberwolf was called a Madcat. It looks like 2 Mechs, and carries the equipment of 2 Mechs too.

Yes, I know the armor is the same, but the 2 slot XL counts for a lot.

I know they can't effectively use ALL their hardpoints all the time, but they have options to be equally effective at all ranges whereas my IS Mech can choose be good at long range, short range, ok at mixed ranges, but isn't going to be a Master of All. A Timberwolf on the other hand, controls a pretty good range of real estate around it.

I'm watching everybody argue burn time and this and that, but the simple fact is you can't put a Madcat and an Orion in 1v1 and really expect the Orion to win.

So, for me as an individual player who isn't trying to be cool or rebellious but simply has 3 kids and didn't buy a package, I'm getting whomped. Now I must admit that makes the kill I did get today a bit sweeter (cored a Clanner in his arse with my BLR's ERPPC and lasers) it's still added a lot of frustration. I'm doing less damage, every game, getting fewer kills, and adding c-bills and XP a lot slower.

So I think this is what it's going to be for me until Clan Mechs are available for c-bills, and then next year I think when I expect the IS Mech's will start getting tech upgrades as per the timeline. RAC, anybody?

[Blackscreen]

Ari Dian, on 20 June 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

But you did not forget, that most dont have the XP for the clan mechs so far? They are leveling these. Once the Clan mechs have max XP with their 3 modules, they will become better, and more dangerous.

Built up reserves of GXP as well as Mech XP to GXP conversion. You've likely already fought elited clan mechs, you just didn't know it.

[Sug]

Bigg Robb, on 20 June 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

So, for me as an individual player who isn't trying to be cool or rebellious but simply has 3 kids and didn't buy a package, I'm getting whomped. Now I must admit that makes the kill I did get today a bit sweeter (cored a Clanner in his arse with my BLR's ERPPC and lasers) it's still added a lot of frustration. I'm doing less damage, every game, getting fewer kills, and adding c-bills and XP a lot slower.

If you're not going to change your build and playstyle to take advantage of clan mech weaknesses I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm not using the same mechs I used last week and my damage/kills/xp per match is up.

Blackscreen, on 20 June 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Built up reserves of GXP as well as Mech XP to GXP conversion. You've likely already fought elited clan mechs, you just didn't know it.

Exactly. Some of us have almost a billion GXP to spend.

[1453 R]

Bigg Robb, on 20 June 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Great posts guys, and good job keeping it civil.

If I can reiterate, I'm not complaining nor giving up. I'm not whining or quitting. I think PGI did a great job. am however pointing out that all the folks saying Clan Mechs aren't superior are simply wrong. This is escalation, which will effectively nullify older equipment. And it was inevitable.

Again- zellbrigen, Clan salvage (my favorite Shadowhawk build rocked a CERPPC), and numerical superiority are all things that isn't, can't, or won't be implemented. I could be wrong but I don't think we'll be seeing 5v12 as a drop option in open play.

There is a reason that a Timberwolf was called a Madcat. It looks like 2 Mechs, and carries the equipment of 2 Mechs too.

Yes, I know the armor is the same, but the 2 slot XL counts for a lot.

I know they can't effectively use ALL their hardpoints all the time, but they have options to be equally effective at all ranges whereas my IS Mech can choose be good at long range, short range, ok at mixed ranges, but isn't going to be a Master of All. A Timberwolf on the other hand, controls a pretty good range of real estate around it.

I'm watching everybody argue burn time and this and that, but the simple fact is you can't put a Madcat and an Orion in 1v1 and really expect the Orion to win.

So, for me as an individual player who isn't trying to be cool or rebellious but simply has 3 kids and didn't buy a package, I'm getting whomped. Now I must admit that makes the kill I did get today a bit sweeter (cored a Clanner in his arse with my BLR's ERPPC and lasers) it's still added a lot of frustration. I'm doing less damage, every game, getting fewer kills, and adding c-bills and XP a lot slower.

So I think this is what it's going to be for me until Clan Mechs are available for c-bills, and then next year I think when I expect the IS Mech's will start getting tech upgrades as per the timeline. RAC, anybody?

The Orion might well defeat the Timber Wolf, if it played to its strengths and sought to mitigate the Timber Wolf’s own.

No, Inner Sphere equipment isn’t going to compete against the Clans fighting the Clans’ kind of fight. DPS face-offs are usually going to go our way, but Spheroid pilots haven’t really been fighting that sort of fight for the last year or so. Twist like a mad thing and take advantage of the shorter time-on-target for IS weapons. That’s their advantage, that’s what they need to leverage in order to compete. On the open field, against superior Clan range and DPS options, you’re going to get wrecked – so don’t fight there. Be patient, force the Clan pilots to come into areas with plenty of cover, and guerilla-kick them. Splatcats and Boomjags are having a blast right now, and the Orion can basically run half a Boomjag and half a Splatcat at the same time. It may have issues with a 4xCSRM-6 Timber-S as dedicated to brawling as any IS ‘Mech is, but you know what? Two brawling-oriented 75-ton ‘Mechs should have to be wary of each other – and I’d put money on the Orion over any Timber Wolf that still carries its LRM-20s, if the Orion can work his way into range.

Load that Fattlemaster with pulse lasers, slap an AC/10 in the off-arm, and make yourself the closet-dwelling Bogeyman. Best shot you’ve got against the Clans until people smarter than me come up with better ideas.

[Noth]

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

They don't suffer side torso death with XL, so they don't exactly die just as easily. And the answer to your question is with superior damage, range, and heat dissipation from smaller and lighter internals.

They are still just as easy to kill. Not all IS come with XLs, IS mechs without XLs are drastically more survivable. You seem to highly underestimate the effects of PP FLD damage which can down any mech in just a couple shots without exposing you CT as much as the clan mechs have to.

[Sug]

1453 R, on 20 June 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

DPS face-offs are usually going to go our way, but Spheroid pilots haven’t really been fighting that sort of fight for the last year or so. Twist like a mad thing and take advantage of the shorter time-on-target for IS weapons.

Pretty much that.

[Shredhead]

Noth, on 20 June 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

They are still just as easy to kill. Not all IS come with XLs, IS mechs without XLs are drastically more survivable. You seem to highly underestimate the effects of PP FLD damage which can down any mech in just a couple shots without exposing you CT as much as the clan mechs have to.

In this case the clammer can just draw circles around the IS mech with superior speed, twist speed and most likely JJs on top. You all draw the IS as if they could counter the clan mechs by build variety. That's not the case. I take a standard engine, now I'm on equal footing with a clammers survivability, but have gimped myself out of speed, agility and payload. I take an XL engine and can be maybe as fast as the clammer but way more vulnerable.
You guys say "but IS lights do well, and clammers don't have that much FLD", well, duh, so I am restricted to (semi) meta builds or lights for IS if I want to be able to barely compete with them? You call that balance?
You also purposefully ignore that every laser of yours does more damage per heat and more damage per .1 sec than any IS laser, at way lower weight and obscene range.
And if your side torso in a Mad Cat is opened up by one 30 damage alpha, I'd seriously open up the mechlab for once and put some armor on!

[Straften]

Shredhead, on 20 June 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

In this case the clammer can just draw circles around the IS mech with superior speed, twist speed and most likely JJs on top. You all draw the IS as if they could counter the clan mechs by build variety. That's not the case. I take a standard engine, now I'm on equal footing with a clammers survivability, but have gimped myself out of speed, agility and payload. I take an XL engine and can be maybe as fast as the clammer but way more vulnerable.
You guys say "but IS lights do well, and clammers don't have that much FLD", well, duh, so I am restricted to (semi) meta builds or lights for IS if I want to be able to barely compete with them? You call that balance?
You also purposefully ignore that every laser of yours does more damage per heat and more damage per .1 sec than any IS laser, at way lower weight and obscene range.
And if your side torso in a Mad Cat is opened up by one 30 damage alpha, I'd seriously open up the mechlab for once and put some armor on!

Nailed it. The people who are piloting these clan mechs are defending their "balance" because they don't want them nerfed. Personally, I don't think the mechs should be nerferd, I think the game should have game modes rebalanced. 12 clans vs 12 IS will go to the clans EVERY time if the teams are anywhere close in skill.

[1453 R]

Straften, on 20 June 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Nailed it. The people who are piloting these clan mechs are defending their "balance" because they don't want them nerfed. Personally, I don't think the mechs should be nerferd, I think the game should have game modes rebalanced. 12 clans vs 12 IS will go to the clans EVERY time if the teams are anywhere close in skill.

Try “the people who are piloting these Clan ‘Mechs are saying it’s way too damn early to call for sweeping, across-the-board giganerfs to twenty-four new machines and dozens of new weapons because less than a week’s playtime has some feathers rustled and people are upset that they can’t kill Timber Wolves in their lollerskates Wolverines with 3x SSRM-2 and a medium laser.”

Give it some time, would you? Let things shake out and settle down a bit, then see where we stand. And also start bringing your A game. You don't have to play meta, but your joke builds aren't going to cut the mustard against good Clan pilots any more than they would against good IS pilots.

Edited by 1453 R, 20 June 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[Hellcat420]

instead of complaining about clan mechs being op, people should think about how to attack them. i see most people shooting out the side torsos on clan mechs. that is dumb, and takes longer to kill a clan mech that way. clan mechs can not torso twist to protect their ct, the arms are to low and the ct sticks out too far. you have to burn through less armor on clan mechs killing the ct than the side torsos. they also are not op just becasue you cant alpha strike them in the torso twice to kill them.

Edited by Hellcat420, 20 June 2014 - 11:55 AM.