228 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Hillslam, on 21 June 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Clan LRM impulse needs brought in line with the other weapons. Its clearly a fat finger typo or error that slipped thru - from looking at all the weapon impulse values.

Or it could be part of the give-and-take for making Clan LRMs stream.

[BourbonFaucet]

For those of you who are showing up later, I've taken the courtesy of shortening the thread for you:

OP: WAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAH! LRM'S OP!

Posters: "Oh man it's this thread again..."

[Kadix]

lockwoodx, on 20 June 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I've said my peace. LRM spam is out of control and until they fix it I don't really care to participate. It's invalidating 90% of matches and degenerated the game back into peek-a-boo pop-tarting where teams spend the entire match hiding behind rocks instead of actually playing. Boring, unproductive, and overpowered. Wake me when PGI gets a clue and tones down the ability for everyone to spam this crap.

[Ngamok]

lockwoodx, on 20 June 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

They don't work. There's too much spam match after match. 90% of teams are using them, 25% of teams boat them on top of the 90% casual users. Every match it's just spam spam spam spam spam and brawling is extinct. GG PGI.

If this is true, then ECM will make them all cry.

[Wingbreaker]

lockwoodx, on 20 June 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I've said my peace. LRM spam is out of control and until they fix it I don't really care to participate. It's invalidating 90% of matches and degenerated the game back into peek-a-boo pop-tarting where teams spend the entire match hiding behind rocks instead of actually playing. Boring, unproductive, and overpowered. Wake me when PGI gets a clue and tones down the ability for everyone to spam this crap.

If it's so overpowered, why does a single mech render it useless?

[Koniving]

On a random side note, playing with 7 second reload times for streaks isn't bad. But damn that window where things can beat the crap out of you is tough!

So my idea to double LRM damage, heat, and reload time seems that much more feasible to me now.

LRM-5, 11 damage, 6.5 second reload.
LRM-10, 22 damage, 7.5 second reload.
LRM-15, 33 damage, 8.5 second reload.
LRM-20, 44 damage, 9.5 second reload.

Or simply 2 damage per missile, leading to 10, 20, 30, and 40 damage per salvo.

But that obscene reload time gives close range fights a LOT of time to get up there and turn the fight around.

Accompany either with a reduction to 120 missiles per ton (effectively doing the damage of 240 of current LRMs but that much more crucial of a loss when they miss).

Just a thought.

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Samziel, on 20 June 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I know that LRM's are fairly much balanced, but at the moment I am just sick and tired of them. There is just too much LRM carriers playing.

i think the same about autocannons.

[Novakaine]

Just another I can't use my Supremo Maximum Ultra Alpha Build thread.
Move along absolutly nothing to see here........again.

[Wolfways]

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

On a random side note, playing with 7 second reload times for streaks isn't bad. But damn that window where things can beat the crap out of you is tough!

So my idea to double LRM damage, heat, and reload time seems that much more feasible to me now.

LRM-5, 11 damage, 6.5 second reload.
LRM-10, 22 damage, 7.5 second reload.
LRM-15, 33 damage, 8.5 second reload.
LRM-20, 44 damage, 9.5 second reload.

Or simply 2 damage per missile, leading to 10, 20, 30, and 40 damage per salvo.

But that obscene reload time gives close range fights a LOT of time to get up there and turn the fight around.

Accompany either with a reduction to 120 missiles per ton (effectively doing the damage of 240 of current LRMs but that much more crucial of a loss when they miss).

Just a thought.

I think 8.5 seconds to fire my C1's main weapons is a little too long.
And an ammo reduction? Hell no. All ammo needs an increase/ton so you don't have to cram 10tons of ammo into a mech to use LRM's or AC's.

[Mcgral18]

Wolfways, on 21 June 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

I think 8.5 seconds to fire my C1's main weapons is a little too long.
And an ammo reduction? Hell no. All ammo needs an increase/ton so you don't have to cram 10tons of ammo into a mech to use LRM's or AC's.

Double damage, more than half ammo.

You get more damage per ton.

[Wolfways]

Mcgral18, on 21 June 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Double damage, more than half ammo.

You get more damage per ton.

Heh, i'm tired...going to bed now

[Silverlance]

I see a lot of the typical module+ECM+AMS+Soft/Hard Cover counter arguments to this. Okay.

My Stormcrow C can't mount ECM. Sure I can use cover both hard and soft to break locks and destroy missiles harmlessly into a building or cliff. But not every map has that super awesome hard cover. Okay, AMS destroys missiles. Duh. Of course it does. But even with AMS overload it still doesn't offer protection against a scrub in an LRM 60+ with 12 tons of ammo who spams you with volley after volley of endless bull ****.
Now. I have come to see that against a SINGLE mech carrying LRMS. They don't do an awful lot of damage to you to begin with. I can close the distance and nullify your missiles in seconds in my Stormcrow and in turn nullify you. BUT. The three other missile boats on the enemy team are also focusing me, raining death because that's ALL they're carrying and get ripped apart.
So. The problem isn't with LRMs being overpowered. They aren't. It isn't with them being too fast. They aren't. It's not their trajectory, mostly. It's the sheer Volume of SPAM that's allowed to take place in a single match that's the problem. I keep saying it over and over again and everyone wants to argue over the fact. That giving items the nerf bat is never the solution. The solution lies in limiting mechs allowed into the game that can carry massive amounts of certain weapons when customized. Dual Gauss. Dual AC20. 6xCUAC2. 4CER/ERPPC and so on and so forth. The weapons aren't the problem. Players are the problem.

Just because you can. Doesn't mean you should. It makes you noobish. It makes you cheap. And no matter how much arguing, trolling and countering you do against this valid point. It stands true. Metas don't happen because game devs say, "Hey, use only these weapons because we made the other ones suck on purpose." No. Metas happen because Players grind out what works the absolute best over anything else and take nothing else but that because if they try to keep the spirit of fun alive. They lose. And since no one likes to lose, everyone becomes cheap and those of us who actually like fun and a challenge and a damn good brawl get stomped into the ground because the rest of the enemy team is carrying nothing but LRM Spam, PPC Spam and AC Spam.

Lastly. Those of you curious. I don't use LRMs. Ever. I don't like easybutton mechs. Another reason why I stay away from my Dire Wolf. My current Timberwolf S is 2xCUAC2s and 4xCERMedLas. My Stormcrow C carries 1xCGauss, 1xCERLL and 2xCERMedLas. No boating involved on either of those mechs and I still put out 700-1000 damage consistently in almost every match. THAT is skill. I imagine the counter to this coming to, so inb4 missilestakeskill huehuehue. No. They don't. Sit 999 meters out behind a cliff and waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to acquire your locks for you so you can push a single button is not skill. That's called being a cheap *******.

That's just my two cents. Let the trolling and "this *****" comments commence. But it's true. YOU are what's wrong with the game. I have learned the hard lesson that Devs can only do so much and the Players have just as much responsibility to keep the game fun because we're the ones playing, not them. So if we want to see changes, it has to come from us, not handed out like candy from PGI. You want to see change? Stop taking ***** LRMboats and get on the front line and do some brawling. Even though sometimes you get ripped to shreds. Being able to get into the open without worrying about massive missile spam is really fun. Especially when it's a David and Goliath moment when your Kit Fox or Adder slays a Dire Wolf or Warhawk in single combat. Make the game fun again. Take a stand and do something about it yourselves instead of whining and begging PGI to nerf something into the ground because you want to keep your precious KDR or meta.

[Koniving]

Wolfways, on 21 June 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Heh, i'm tired...going to bed now

Double damage, identical DPS to what we have now, more than half the ammo per ton still (like I said it'd be effectively 240 of the current missiles), just a longer wait between reloads to reduce the spam. It'll make having fewer launchers worth more, which in turn frees up tons for backup weapons 'cause you're gonna need 'em.

[Deathlike]

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

On a random side note, playing with 7 second reload times for streaks isn't bad. But damn that window where things can beat the crap out of you is tough!

So my idea to double LRM damage, heat, and reload time seems that much more feasible to me now.

LRM-5, 11 damage, 6.5 second reload.
LRM-10, 22 damage, 7.5 second reload.
LRM-15, 33 damage, 8.5 second reload.
LRM-20, 44 damage, 9.5 second reload.

Or simply 2 damage per missile, leading to 10, 20, 30, and 40 damage per salvo.

But that obscene reload time gives close range fights a LOT of time to get up there and turn the fight around.

Accompany either with a reduction to 120 missiles per ton (effectively doing the damage of 240 of current LRMs but that much more crucial of a loss when they miss).

Just a thought.

So... it's a bad time to ask for buffing SRM ammo from 100 to 120?

Unfortunately, your solution would just reinforce smaller launchers as they are far more powerful+useful in bigger numbers.

I do this already... so doing that would just make LRM5s more popular, despite how it works against AMS.

I'm not sure if that'll "solve anything" outside of "less LRM boats" in circulation.

[Koniving]

Deathlike, on 21 June 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

So... it's a bad time to ask for buffing SRM ammo from 100 to 120?

Unfortunately, your solution would just reinforce smaller launchers as they are far more powerful+useful in bigger numbers.

I do this already... so doing that would just make LRM5s more popular, despite how it works against AMS.

I'm not sure if that'll "solve anything" outside of "less LRM boats" in circulation.

Truth be told I haven't been having problem with SRM ammo. Got twin 6's, 200 missiles. Seem to do fairly well. I just don't bother with Artemis.

There is that, but at 6.5 seconds per LRM-5, okay so you fire them all at once and you get out 20 missiles.
Of that against 1 AMS that's 3 missiles destroyed. Against 2 that's 7 missiles destroyed (3.5 per second each) and that's assuming it takes 1 second to hit the target after getting within AMS range.

That 1 AMS effectively destroyed 6.6 damage worth of missiles. The twin AMS got rid of 13.2 damage worth of missiles. AMS overload, various other things, and well your 40 to 44 damage in 6.5 damage seconds is bound to run into problems unless used against stragglers or people foolish enough not to use AMS.

The only thing is since DPS is the same, you have an identical problem now except the missiles are worth half as much when shot down, so that one AMS only got rid of 3.3 damage. Then you have the spam, where the enemy can't see. The spam...where the enemy is too afraid to move. The spam...which trapped the enemy. The spam... which has psychologically demoralized the enemy into and I quote, "**** this! I'm not playing this ****. I quit."

What it's effectively trying to remove and the only thing it is trying to remove is the spam. Nothing else.

Any and all other problems would still exist of course; those are issues fundamentally with how PGI did the individual weapons. My idea is just how to remove the spam without buffing or nerfing anything [it takes 2 firings and merges them into one, then makes you wait twice as long to reload and fire again.] (though the ammo count change is another counter measure to spam; because every missile is worth more and you get fewer of them, you're less likely to fire just for the sake of firing. You'll be more likely to time your shots and only fire for the good hits. It also kinda makes dumb firing worth while against poptarts; since any missiles that hit would be worth twice as much damage).

(Thinking on it though... Currently LRM-5, 10 to 11 damage at 6.5 seconds. LRM-20 40 to 44 damage at 9.5 seconds. Yeah it's an identical problem with stacking LRM-5s; but the reasoning is easy to see. In their original design LRM-5s and 20s are meant to fire at the same speed; but PGI made 5's shoot faster. Evidently too much faster.)

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[Lightfoot]

I just added Radar Dep last night and found that it replaced AMS so I stripped all the AMS off my mechs and I will just ride Radar Dep for freeing up 2 tons.

Not being killed by LRMs. No AMS. How pathetic is that?

[Master Maniac]

I don't care about what the LRM apologists have to say. This game indeed has devolved into LRM-15 spamming competitions. The only ones defending it are the ones shamelessly abusing it, and PGI patently refuses to address the fact that LRMs are skill-free weapons that require no engagement whatsoever.

Game is crap, pretty much. Not one penny more until Paul Inouye shifts into the burger-flipping industry where he belongs.

[Yokaiko]

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

On a random side note, playing with 7 second reload times for streaks isn't bad. But damn that window where things can beat the crap out of you is tough!

So my idea to double LRM damage, heat, and reload time seems that much more feasible to me now.

Or just leave it and maybe some day people won't stand in the open.

[Lyoto Machida]

Silverlance, on 21 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

I see a lot of the typical module+ECM+AMS+Soft/Hard Cover counter arguments to this. Okay.

My Stormcrow C can't mount ECM. Sure I can use cover both hard and soft to break locks and destroy missiles harmlessly into a building or cliff. But not every map has that super awesome hard cover. Okay, AMS destroys missiles. Duh. Of course it does. But even with AMS overload it still doesn't offer protection against a scrub in an LRM 60+ with 12 tons of ammo who spams you with volley after volley of endless bull ****.
Now. I have come to see that against a SINGLE mech carrying LRMS. They don't do an awful lot of damage to you to begin with. I can close the distance and nullify your missiles in seconds in my Stormcrow and in turn nullify you. BUT. The three other missile boats on the enemy team are also focusing me, raining death because that's ALL they're carrying and get ripped apart.
So. The problem isn't with LRMs being overpowered. They aren't. It isn't with them being too fast. They aren't. It's not their trajectory, mostly. It's the sheer Volume of SPAM that's allowed to take place in a single match that's the problem. I keep saying it over and over again and everyone wants to argue over the fact. That giving items the nerf bat is never the solution. The solution lies in limiting mechs allowed into the game that can carry massive amounts of certain weapons when customized. Dual Gauss. Dual AC20. 6xCUAC2. 4CER/ERPPC and so on and so forth. The weapons aren't the problem. Players are the problem.

Just because you can. Doesn't mean you should. It makes you noobish. It makes you cheap. And no matter how much arguing, trolling and countering you do against this valid point. It stands true. Metas don't happen because game devs say, "Hey, use only these weapons because we made the other ones suck on purpose." No. Metas happen because Players grind out what works the absolute best over anything else and take nothing else but that because if they try to keep the spirit of fun alive. They lose. And since no one likes to lose, everyone becomes cheap and those of us who actually like fun and a challenge and a damn good brawl get stomped into the ground because the rest of the enemy team is carrying nothing but LRM Spam, PPC Spam and AC Spam.

Lastly. Those of you curious. I don't use LRMs. Ever. I don't like easybutton mechs. Another reason why I stay away from my Dire Wolf. My current Timberwolf S is 2xCUAC2s and 4xCERMedLas. My Stormcrow C carries 1xCGauss, 1xCERLL and 2xCERMedLas. No boating involved on either of those mechs and I still put out 700-1000 damage consistently in almost every match. THAT is skill. I imagine the counter to this coming to, so inb4 missilestakeskill huehuehue. No. They don't. Sit 999 meters out behind a cliff and waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to acquire your locks for you so you can push a single button is not skill. That's called being a cheap *******.

That's just my two cents. Let the trolling and "this *****" comments commence. But it's true. YOU are what's wrong with the game. I have learned the hard lesson that Devs can only do so much and the Players have just as much responsibility to keep the game fun because we're the ones playing, not them. So if we want to see changes, it has to come from us, not handed out like candy from PGI. You want to see change? Stop taking ***** LRMboats and get on the front line and do some brawling. Even though sometimes you get ripped to shreds. Being able to get into the open without worrying about massive missile spam is really fun. Especially when it's a David and Goliath moment when your Kit Fox or Adder slays a Dire Wolf or Warhawk in single combat. Make the game fun again. Take a stand and do something about it yourselves instead of whining and begging PGI to nerf something into the ground because you want to keep your precious KDR or meta.

That's not the way to use LRMs effectively.

[Master Maniac]

How you use LRMs effectively:

*click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click*

NARC that guy, please. Thanks.

*click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click*