15 replies to this topic

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd love to have a separate weight for Gyros, Sensors and so on.



And I can wait for such things.

[Bishop Steiner]

technopredator, on 20 June 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

You see it? yes it's wrong, it should be at least 8.5 if no less, 8 as the engines go at that rate, I don't care if this is canon, it's illogical not to mention impossible in the real world, a higher volume engine will yield the same work if they're similar builds, specially on atomic engines these are suppose to be, so more Uranium volume more yield, or you need to give a freaking good explanation for this nonsense to exist.

cry harder?

Don't like canon, go play a different game. Pretty simple.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 June 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[Shabahh Kerensky]

I don't even look at engines that low.

[FupDup]

Welcome to the wonderful world of min-maxing. Enjoy your stay.


On a side note, IIRC some engines were technically "supposed" to have half ton increments on them, but got rounded up because FASA had a distinct hatred of decimals.

[Torgun]

While I agree it seems wrong, I've never even considered using an engine below 200.

Edited by Torgun, 20 June 2014 - 11:58 PM.

[Ulketulke]

Maybe its like 100kg heavier, but it gets rounded to the same value

[MischiefSC]

Actually if you don't like canon this isn't a bad choice

[wolf74]

Well Technically you could only fit Engine that were in rating that were increments of your mech's weight.

AKA (Limiting Engine with in the Current MWO other Rules (2x Min and 8x Max or with 100min & 400Max Rating)
25 Ton Mech could only use, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200

40 Ton mech could only use 120, 160, 200, 240, 280, 320

65 Ton mech could only use 130, 195, 260, 325, 390

85 Ton mech could only use 170, 255, 340

100 Ton mech could only use 200, 300, 400

Edited by wolf74, 21 June 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[CheeseThief]

The 175 comes with an extra heatsink over the 170, hence where the extra weight difference.

[stjobe]

technopredator, on 20 June 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

You see it? yes it's wrong, it should be at least 8.5 if no less, 8 as the engines go at that rate, I don't care if this is canon, it's illogical not to mention impossible in the real world, a higher volume engine will yield the same work if they're similar builds, specially on atomic engines these are suppose to be, so more Uranium volume more yield, or you need to give a freaking good explanation for this nonsense to exist.

A few things:

• MWO does not follow the TT build rules as regards engine, gyro, heat sinks, life support and so on. The end result, though, is the same weight engines as the TT rules (although one important difference is that sub-100 rated engines are impossible in MWO, much to the chagrin of us UrbanMech lovers).
  
• BattleTech engines are fusion, not fission; as such they don't use Uranium fuel but Hydrogen. The size of the engine likely has more to do with its shielding (higher-yield engines need heavier shielding) than its volume.
  
• As others have pointed out, the 175 and 180 both have 7 heat sinks while the 170 only has 6.

[Scratx]

technopredator, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Even better, using fusion, which today requires fission, maybe in the year 23xx this could be solved to use pure fusion reactors, and being controlled would require more volume for a higher yield, and the extra heatsink weights only 1T, the improvement to the 175 engine would need to be minimal because of its high energy yield, so it'd be shielding, but the idea it to make an engine between 170 & 180, in weight and speed, not just speed, because if 175 and 180 weight the same , have the same HS number but the 180 engine gives more speed, there isn't any reason to choose the 175 engine, unless you want to go slower? or maybe it produces less heat when working, but engine heat isn't taking into account on 'mech builds, so it's like it wasn't there, so it can be discarded, so I don't think anyone would choose going slower on an already slow engine, so the 175 design is pretty useless, as some other engines that weight the same and give less speed with the same amount of HSs; for those kind of engines to exist it must be at least another variable that makes them worth it.

I don't know about other Battlemech or MWO rules, but in it current state, the engine design is flawed.

If you want to make a fusion bomb, yes, you need a fission reaction atm. Energy density constraints...

If you want a fusion reactor, however... they already exist. The problem is that they aren't yet advanced enough to extract more energy out of them than you need to put in to get them running. ITER is supposed to fix that, and there's experiments in the US to do a fusion reactor based on a different method to do the same.

Also, there is a good reason to opt for a 175 engine over a 180... Two, in fact.
1- 175 is slightly cheaper.
2- You may already HAVE a 175 to use in your inventory and thus you can save money with a minor performance sacrifice.

These two reasons apply to every other engine rating where there are similar issues.

[OneEyed Jack]

technopredator, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

if 175 and 180 weight the same , have the same HS number but the 180 engine gives more speed, there isn't any reason to choose the 175 engine

wolf74, on 21 June 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Well Technically you could only fit Engine that were in rating that were increments of your mech's weight.

AKA (Limiting Engine with in the Current MWO other Rules (2x Min and 8x Max or with 100min & 400Max Rating)
25 Ton Mech could only use, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200

40 Ton mech could only use 120, 160, 200, 240, 280, 320

65 Ton mech could only use 130, 195, 260, 325, 390

85 Ton mech could only use 170, 255, 340

100 Ton mech could only use 200, 300, 400

There's your reason. And no, even if they owned the IP, PGI isn't going to "change canon" to fix it.

Now, take a deep breath and let it go.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 21 June 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[stjobe]

technopredator, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Even better, using fusion, which today requires fission, maybe in the year 23xx this could be solved to use pure fusion reactors, and being controlled would require more volume for a higher yield, and the extra heatsink weights only 1T, the improvement to the 175 engine would need to be minimal because of its high energy yield, so it'd be shielding,

First off - we're not talking about nuclear weapons, we're talking about nuclear power; contrary to popular opinion, they're actually not the same thing.

Fusion power reactors certainly do not require fission (and definitely not a fission nuclear weapon!) to get started.

technopredator, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

but the idea it to make an engine between 170 & 180, in weight and speed, not just speed, because if 175 and 180 weight the same , have the same HS number but the 180 engine gives more speed, there isn't any reason to choose the 175 engine, unless you want to go slower? or maybe it produces less heat when working, but engine heat isn't taking into account on 'mech builds, so it's like it wasn't there, so it can be discarded, so I don't think anyone would choose going slower on an already slow engine, so the 175 design is pretty useless, as some other engines that weight the same and give less speed with the same amount of HSs; for those kind of engines to exist it must be at least another variable that makes them worth it.

As someone else pointed out, BattleTech has a rule that MWO skipped, namely that you can only mount an engine that has a rating which is a multiple of your tonnage; with this rule in place, any 'mech that can mount a 175 cannot mount a 180.

technopredator, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I don't know about other Battlemech or MWO rules, but in it current state, the engine design is flawed.

I'd say it's MWO that is a flawed interpretation of the lore; MWO allows for any increment engine rating which directly causes your "issue" with the 175 vs the 180.

It also makes most 'mechs faster than they generally should be; if an Atlas only could mount a 200, 300, or 400-rated engine, we would see very few fast Assaults.

[Hans Von Lohman]

The 175 has another heat sink.

It makes sense. It isn't broken at all.

The thing about MWO is that they already have subtracted and added in the weights for the cockpit, gyro, and external heat sinks to give you the engine's weight. All that is needed after that is to have at least 10 heat sinks.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 22 June 2014 - 01:43 AM.