42 replies to this topic

[Leidulfr]

Hello to any passerbys:

I initially signed up to play this a year ago, maybe longer (can't quite remember), but actually just started roughly 3 days ago (not keeping track of days due to being on college break). I've been a long time fan of the MW series--just never got the time to try this out. I was really excited and having tons of fun my first and second day, but I'm getting pretty frustrated with how sucky I'm doing each game now, and I'm not learning from my super quick deaths (aside from the fact that armor seems to mean nothing).

I thoroughly read a beginners' guide that someone posted a link to in the NGNG Twitch stream and went from there. At first, I felt like I was doing pretty good, using the trial mechs. I simply started with the lightest and went up to the assaults. Statistically, I did much better with the lights than anything heavier, especially the slow ass-sss-heck Atlas. Every now and then, I did good with the Blackjack and it's AC (I think that was the right mech).

So, based off of how I did in ~ 30-40 matches, I bought a mech with my C-Bills; I had about 6 million by then. I chose the Cicada-CDA-3C for a few reasons:

1) I like the look of it.
2) I liked that it had a poking weapon (the PPC).
3) I liked that it was fast-ish.
4) I liked that it had MGs, for attacking behind folk in their unarmored spots (which I seemed to do decently enough with the Spider trial).
5) I had enough C-Bills.

Now, ever since I purchased it, and because I spent all 6 mil C-Bills, down to ~400k remaining, I've felt like I should utilize it so I'll be gaining XP for it and actually putting that spent money to use. However, I've been doing atrociously. It's really bumming me out! Out of ten games now, I've been essentially one shotted to the torso (full armor to nothing in a single barrage from as light as a Jenner's 3 medium and 3 small lasers to as heavy as a Timberwolf and the plethora of weapons they're capable of firing at once), despite putting as much armor as I could on the default variant.

On top of being one shotted, I've been doing less than 100 dmg per game; where as before, I was usually getting at least 200 (pathetically, the most I've done so far was 591). I'm guessing this has to do with the fact that I can only really fit 2 machine guns and some kind of laser on this mech (I didn't realize what "hard points" were until I bought the mech). I thought that the PPC would be really strong, but once I actually played with it a few games, and then found out I could look at each weapon's stats in the lab, I saw that it only does 10 dmg at max.

So, what the heck is this mech good for? I've tried sticking close to team mates, I've tried flanking around to use my MGs, and I've tried staying WAY back and just poking with the PPC (or ER Large Laser). In either case, I end up getting alpha'd to death and only wasting a spot on the team for a potentially good player.

Even if I drop all of the armor points (which seem to do zero good anyways), I still only gain enough tonnage for either a couple more MGs or an AC2, but then I need more ammo, so...

I'm not a bad shot, and I have gotten a few kills with this, but that was only when the guy I'm shooting at from behind isn't paying any attention to me. If they get a scope on me, I'm usually dead, way before I can do even 50 dmg to them. I was taught that the MGs are meant for hitting unarmored spots, so that's what I aim to do, but otherwise, I'm completely ineffective.

I "upgraded" the variant's default armor, structure, and heat sinks, because after doing comparisons between the three and their standard alternatives, I saw no downside... especially with the heat sinks, does anyone use single heat sinks? I see literally no benefit, other than not having to buy doubles... However, there's also no explanation of what the "upgrades" do when I mouse over or click them, unlike the weapons and equipment, so IDK if that was a good decision.

I was going to try to change out the engine and see what that did, but I don't understand them at all. The mech came with a "Standard 280." When I swapped out for an "XL" version, which I don't know what means, I had more available tonnage, but then I would need to load more heat sinks, it stated; regardless, I don't have the ~5mil C-bills for another engine... I assumed the engine that came with the mech would be good enough.

Anyqueh... I was having a lot of fun, despite not being "good" using the trial mechs, but now I'm just annoyingly bad, consistently. Should I just stick to using the same stock, unchangeable trial mechs, even though I won't earn XP or really progress? I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Understandably, when I ask questions at the beginning of a match, people generally just spat out the stuff I already read about in that beginners' guide (i.e. focus fire, stick together, press Q to target, hit alt+f4 for a boost, etc.). Thanks in advance; I apologize for the long wall of text.

Sincerely,

Brad

2014/JUN/27 Edit: So, after going through trying to grind the 3C out and get more Cicada variants, and then deciding to use the rest of my MC to get a Bore's Head for some extra C-Bills and a change up and absolutely hating life for the most part in that thing, I got a Firestarter; I ******* love this little guy! Doing way better and having fun now. I really wanted to make the first two mechs I bought work, but I guess lights are just my thing... I even got 5 kills, 8 assists, 12 component destructions, and 556 dmg in one game. THAT was epic.

Thanks to all of the replies and advice I received before this! <n(^~^)n>

Edited by Nocturnal Link, 27 June 2014 - 04:07 AM.

[Exilyth]

The Cicada is fast but squishy. It's more of a light than a medium.

To make it shine, either put on a large long range weapon and poke people from afar (aka sniper/direct fire support), or load up some fast firing stuff, beef up the engine and go hunt lights and be a nuisance for the big'uns (aka light hunter/harasser).

You generally want to scout at first, use your speed to get into a forward position, find out where the enemy is and maybe even get a lock or even fire a few shots. Then you need to get the [redacted] outta' there. If you're able to, rinse and repeat with different positions, otherwise, wait for the fight to devolve into a brawl.

Or, you could stick with one of your teams heavies/assualts and provide defense against lights and additional dakka. Make sure you bring ams when choosing to do this.

For the start, I'd suggest 1 ERLL for long range punch and 4 MG for chewing on damaged foes. I ran a cicada with 2 ER PPC for some time, makes for a great sniper, but that was before ghost heat, so this might not be viable anymore. 2 ERLL is nice too, needs lots of heat sinks though.

I build a Cicada with a 100 engine and two LBX10 ACs once. T'was horribly slow but fun.

The size of an engine determines the speed, e.g. a mech with a 100 rated engine is slower than a mech with a 110 rated engine. XL engines are lighter but require 3 slots in each side torso. Also, XL engines make you die when your side torso is destroyed (case + xl engine + any ammo can make this happen even faster).

If you are serious about the cicada, the C3 variant is only a stepping stone though, the 3M with the ECM is much better.

Most importantly: Torso Twist away from the enemy! The Cicada has a huge cockpit!

Edited by Exilyth, 21 June 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Okay, so the downside is that you bought a 3C variant. It may be the worst of the Cicadas' available imo. The best being the 3M without a doubt. But I did have to run the 3C for a short period to master out my Cicadas. I used it with one ERPPC and 4 MG's, and while not an OP or scary build it can be okay if play elusively and don't sit still or in one place for very long or yes you can get one shot killed.
Anyhow not sure if it will help but going to link the only 3C build I have on Smurfy >>> http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9821070da1e8cca. Really not a great build, but I really struggle with builds with that particular mech and at the same time keeping speed up on it.

Okay so played around a little in Smurfy and built another 3C up, although a little slower could be a interesting build to try out >>> CDA-3C.

*Edit...for addition.*

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 21 June 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[k0sh]

Don't have much time but I can tell you that standard engine and XL are different in a few ways.
Standard provide more survivability but weight more because it does not use the slots in torso, and if you had XL and then destroyed torso means your dead.
XL engine provides you with extra free tons but increases chance of dying.

If tonnage exceeds 55 I stick to standard and other than that I use XL as mechs are fast or need to be fast to live.

I never had CICADA but from what I see in game that people are using it for scouting (tag/NARC) and sniping.
As Jenner owner I can suggest you don't stand out in the beginning of the game, stay behind and observe movement of your team and support them where necessary also it's important not to fight alone, your CICADA is quick better run away and go back with bigger friends.
I personally think that CICADA is a light mech killer.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

You do earn XP for the Trial variants that you have access to if you ever purchase them yourself. But there is a lot more choice available if you buy the chassis you're interested in.

Double heat sinks are pretty much a 1.5million cbill tax on almost every mech. Endo internal structure is almost alwaya useful on anything smaller than a Heavy. Ferro armour is the lowest priority, only to be taken if you have lots of space left and need to squeeze out a few extra tons.

Also, don't despair! From your post you seem to be doing a lot of the right things. Cicadas can be punishing to play though, on account of the fact that they're so light for their size. You really want to play them as fat Lights. Big engine and NEVER stop moving. A stationary mech as light aa the CDA is easy to one shot (as you discovered).

Use this section of the forum as much as you need to - we're all pretty friendly and helpful. Go to the Smurfy mechlab (on phone, but others will give the link. Or google). It contains all the stats and information on the weapons and upgrades, as well as the mechs and lets you play around with builds without having to pay a penny.

Lastly, welcome! It does get easier, I promise.

[Cybersniper Vickers]

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

[Koniving]

Some brief tips.
90% or greater front armor. Never skimp legs. Never put ammo in legs.
When enemy fire is coming at you, turn to use the shield arms to block shots.
Never rush any target head-on.
Never stand still if you can avoid it; worst case scenario walk slowly.
Try flanking enemies that are busy with other people.
And never, ever, charge or retreat in a straight line against an enemy that can shoot you.

This was the worst Cicada I ever used. I think I did okay with it.

Computer voices are edited in. They let you know what I'm targeting, what I'm doing, and what's going on.
"Target: Center Torso. Destroyed."
"Warning! Left leg targeted!"
Etc.

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[Leidulfr]

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

To make it shine, either put on a large long range weapon and poke people from afar (aka sniper/direct fire support), or load up some fast firing stuff, beef up the engine and go hunt lights and be a nuisance for the big'uns (aka light hunter/harasser).

Okay, this is how I was doing it with an ER PPC and an ER Large Laser, but in regards to beefing up the engine, what do you suggest I save my bills up for?

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

You generally want to scout at first, use your speed to get into a forward position, find out where the enemy is and maybe even get a lock or even fire a few shots. Then you need to get the [redacted] outta' there. If you're able to, rinse and repeat with different positions, otherwise, wait for the fight to devolve into a brawl.

I feel soooo nervous about going out of cover period in this thing. If one bad guy is up a head with me, and they have ECM, which they almost always have, I usually get pounded by LRMs by the time I've turned around and high tailed it out of there... dead. Also, because of this, I haven't been nearly as risky, runabout as a I was in the Spider trial, so now that I recall, I was doing a lot of driving forward to snipe, reversing to get cover, which was slow, and I usually got hit anyways... I just won't do that anymore... I'll try to keep moving instead, even though I'm still getting hammered. Maybe 113kph just isn't fast enough?

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Or, you could stick with one of your teams heavies/assualts and provide defense against lights and additional dakka. Make sure you bring ams when choosing to do this.

I also equipped the AMS for about 15 matches and I like the idea of it, but because I was still sucking, I thought I needed more guns, so I had dropped it to add two more MGs, which didn't help.

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

For the start, I'd suggest 1 ERLL for long range punch and 4 MG for chewing on damaged foes. I ran a cicada with 2 ER PPC for some time, makes for a great sniper, but that was before ghost heat, so this might not be viable anymore. 2 ERLL is nice too, needs lots of heat sinks though.

Sounds like what I was doing; I must just be doing it all wrong. What's ghost heat?

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

The size of an engine determines the speed, e.g. a mech with a 100 rated engine is slower than a mech with a 110 rated engine. XL engines are lighter but require 3 slots in each side torso. Also, XL engines make you die when your side torso is destroyed (case + xl engine + any ammo can make this happen even faster).

Case? Also, that sucks... 3 times as likely to eat dirt? XD

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

If you are serious about the cicada, the C3 variant is only a stepping stone though, the 3M with the ECM is much better.

Not necessarily serious about it; I just chose it cause I thought it was a good choice. Do you recommend me saving up for an entirely different mech, a new XL engine for my current variant, or the 3M?

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Most importantly: Torso Twist away from the enemy! The Cicada has a huge cockpit!

I do try to do this, but have a hard time telling when I should... so far I've just been doing it when I need to run away, and or if my MGs are dead and in between laser shots. If my MGs are good, I usually just hold down the trigger on them and hope I get lucky. I try not to go head to head with anything other than lights though, but even they're kicking my butt that way.

Also, should I put armor in the arms? I have 15 in each, just to act as tiny shields for when I am turning, but IDK if that small amount is even worth the points... I could get more MG ammo.

Head armor as well? Headshots seem few... I've never been headshotted, but I still keep 15 armor there.

xMEPHISTOx, on 21 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Okay, so the downside is that you bought a 3C variant. It may be the worst of the Cicadas' available imo. The best being the 3M without a doubt. But I did have to run the 3C for a short period to master out my Cicadas. I used it with one ERPPC and 4 MG's, and while not an OP or scary build it can be okay if play elusively and don't sit still or in one place for very long or yes you can get one shot killed.
Anyhow not sure if it will help but going to link the only 3C build I have on Smurfy > http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9821070da1e8cca. Really not a great build, but I really struggle with builds with that particular mech and at the same time keeping speed up on it.

Bummer... so, two replies and I've gathered that I'm a poor window shopper. Is it even worth the time to TRY with this variant? I'd rather not always be at the bottom or look like I'm just stealing kills (1 kill, 45 dmg) LOL.

Also, that build looks just like mine, but I changed it up trying to make it better--went from that to an ER Large Laser, to just two MGs and an AMS, and back again... did horribly regardless.

I appreciate the prompt and thorough responses both of you.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Bummer... so, two replies and I've gathered that I'm a poor window shopper. Is it even worth the time to TRY with this variant?

Of course - it will help you get to the Elite tier pilot skills (So, all the Basic skills on the -3C, then the Basics on two more CDAs). Once you unlock all the Elite skills for a chassis, the Basic benefits are doubled. They often make the mech pilot like a totally different machine. Stick with it, the payoff is (eventually) worth it.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Bummer... so, two replies and I've gathered that I'm a poor window shopper. Is it even worth the time to TRY with this variant? I'd rather not always be at the bottom or look like I'm just stealing kills (1 kill, 45 dmg) LOL.

Also, that build looks just like mine, but I changed it up trying to make it better--went from that to an ER Large Laser, to just two MGs and an AMS, and back again... did horribly regardless.

I appreciate the prompt and thorough responses both of you.

I wouldn't say your a poor shopper so much as you've only been playing for 3 days, so just an inexperienced buyer not to mention low CBill availability.
I have alt accounts that are FTP only and have generally played the trials until I had at least 10m cills so as to be able to have more options available when making a purchase. And most importantly go to smurfy site and build there as it will give you a cbill total for the mech you built, that way you will know how much you will need to build said mech.
Whether or not it is worth your time to play the 3C or not is irrelevant as you now have it, the return sale wouldn't be worth it, so best to either find a build that will work for you or continue on with whichever trial mech provides you with the most cbill earnings per match, as earning cbills is ultimately a high priority in the early stages of a pilot. And then maybe even more important is the 'fun' level, if your not having fun in a particular mech than whats the point.

[Leidulfr]

Hey, my thanks to all of you for your really fast and kind replies!

Seeing how everyone is posting similar tips and info is good for me--it builds a sort of "confirmed" check list in my mind. I might just keep at the Cicada and try to perfect what I was already trying to do. After I get enough cash, I'll try for the ECM variant, I guess. Not really sure what else to go for. XD

[Leidulfr]

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

This was the worst Cicada I ever used. I think I did okay with it.

You said you edited the computer voice into the video? Or, did you alter the game to add that voice in? The MW3 lady has some huge nostalgia factor for me, and I would love to replace the current lady with her's--is that possible? Very cool. Thanks for sharing.

[Exilyth]

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Okay, ... in regards to beefing up the engine, what do you suggest I save my bills up for?

Well, for a sniper, put in the guns, then add the largest engine you can fit.
For a harasser put in the largest engine and then fill up with weapons and equipment.

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Case?

Case is celular ammunition storage (see http://www.sarna.net...orage_Equipment for lore & more info). It can be mounted on the side torsos.

A critical hit on ammo makes the ammo explode, damaging the location the ammo is stored in. Then damage spreads inwards to other locations (Arm/Leg -> side torso -> center torso). CASE blows out the whole side torso but prevents damage from spreading.

Three damaged engine slots lead to engine destruction. So, ammo + case = side torso gone, xl engines place three critical slots in the side torso, so... BOOM!

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Torso twisting?

For torso twisting, as a sniper: after giving off a shot, do the twist after giving off a shot while getting back into cover. Relocate and reappear at another location.
As a harasser: when an enemy turns towards you and you didn't get away fast enough.

Imho, better to take full armor in the head than to fall to grazing damage from a laser.

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

CDA 3C - waste of time/credits?

Don't worry, any time spend on a variant leads to a better understanding of the chassis strengths and weaknesses. That knowledge will later also come in handy when fighting against a chassis.



Edit: As for whether the Cicada is viable... well, it is fun to pilot, but you need to invest lots of xp for at least the basic skills. Above all, the Cicada is very versatile: A fat light which can run circles around assaults but also put on serious damage, or a slow glasscannon with a heavy punch, or something in between.

Edited by Exilyth, 21 June 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[Koniving]

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

You said you edited the computer voice into the video?

Edited the voice into the video. God I wish I could have it in game; I'd get one of my former Chinese ESL students to be a computer voice for me. An official "Zhizhu" computer voice in actual Chinese.
<.<
Not quite as cool or popular as a Kurita voice with real Japanese, but that wouldn't be quite as immersive considering which faction I'm allied with.

[Koniving]

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

A critical hit on ammo makes the ammo explode, damaging the location the ammo is stored in. Then damage spreads inwards to other locations (Arm/Leg -> side torso -> center torso). CASE blows out the whole side torso but prevents damage from spreading.

This only occurs if said ammo would do more damage than the area could handle.

Example, if an explosion does 20 damage but you have 15 side torso structure, then 5 damage would try to go to your CT. CASE prevents that, but you lost the side torso either way.
If the explosion does 20 damage to your arm, which had 15 health, then 5 damage goes to your side torso. CASE or not, you only get 5 damage internal damage to said side torso.

If an explosion of 10 damage occurs in the side torso, and you have 40 structure health in that side torso, then with or without CASE you will still survive it.

Keep in mind, in the example of AC/20 ammo, it's 20 damage per shot left in what exploded (max of 7 shots which is 140 damage).

Side note: The reason stock mechs with XL engines come with CASE is it preserves the rest of the engine, making repair and rearm SOooooooooooooooooooooooo much cheaper. Otherwise in TT, you won't even have a mech left to repair 'cause it went nuclear.

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Leidulfr]

Exilyth, on 21 June 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Don't worry, any time spend on a variant leads to a better understanding of the chassis strengths and weaknesses. That knowledge will later also come in handy when fighting against a chassis.

Very good point.

[Leidulfr]

@Koniving

So, how is damage calculated in the game? Is it a literal representation? Like, if I have 30 armor points in my front right torso and a PPC hits me at optimal range, will I only have 20 armor left in that spot? Also, when the armor is gone, how many "life" points do I have in each spot? (I wish there were numbers for the display in the cockpit; it's very hard for me to tell how many more shots I can take just by the color [yellow, orange, or red].)

[Tyrnea Smurf]

Another option to consider, since your having issues with your current Cicada purchase:

There is a 50% off sale on Jenners, Hunchbacks, Catapults, and Atlas's.

These are the original 4 mechs chassis offered when MWO started presales before the game opened in closed beta.

The sale runs until june 25th, and it includes both MC prices, BUT ALSO C-BILL PRICES.

You might want to consider creating a spare account, and in that spare account doing the 25 match cadet bonus.

Once you have the cadet bonus c-bills in hand in that spare account (which should net you 20+ million c-bills iirc), buy one of those mechs which are on super sale (or even 3 variants of the same chassis so you can master it).

Worst case, it will take 6 hours to grind the 25 cadet matches, then buy a few sale mechs.

If you have the time, you could even do this 3 or 4 times to try out all 4 chassis, which also will allow you to feel out the 4 weight classes in detail.

[Koniving]

Nocturnal Link, on 21 June 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

@Koniving

So, how is damage calculated in the game? Is it a literal representation? Like, if I have 30 armor points in my front right torso and a PPC hits me at optimal range, will I only have 20 armor left in that spot? Also, when the armor is gone, how many "life" points do I have in each spot? (I wish there were numbers for the display in the cockpit; it's very hard for me to tell how many more shots I can take just by the color [yellow, orange, or red].)

Literal. With exceptions for Clan weapons. For example a Clan autocannon/20 shoots five shots that in total do 20 damage.
Exceptions also on lasers. The laser damage is divided per 'tick', which x amount of ticks occur during a beam. The exacts are still debated and devs won't give a clear answer on it. Take a large pulse, it has a beam of 0.6 seconds. Assuming one tick per 0.1 seconds, and 10.6 damage divided into 6 ticks is approximately 1.767 damage per tick (0.1 seconds of beam time) rounded?
But basically the total damage it is stated to have is what it does by the time it stops shooting.

When you lose armor, you have structure health. Currently structure health is 1/2 of max possible armor for each body part EXCEPT the cockpit, which has 15 (instead of 9).

Example, a Locust has 75 structure health total.
A Jenner has 125 structure.
An Atlas has 313 structure health total. But of that only 62 structure is on the CT.

Edited by Koniving, 21 June 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[Leidulfr]

Tyrnea Smurf, on 21 June 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

...If you have the time, you could even do this 3 or 4 times to try out all 4 chassis, which also will allow you to feel out the 4 weight classes in detail.

I see that there are "(C)" and "(H)" variants within these--I'm guessing the H stands for the Hero part, but what does the C stand for, and are they necessary for mastering the skills? Also, if I were to get the C or H variants, are they configurable?

And, is the only difference between variants the different hard points and their placements on the chassis?

Thanks!

Edited by Nocturnal Link, 21 June 2014 - 03:40 PM.