17 replies to this topic

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

I've yet to try one out for myself (especially since I don't play this game often), but to me, the best poptarter is one that not only has a powerful, precise alpha strike, but can support the team in other ways, such as this Highlander 732 build (with an alpha strike of 51), or this Highlander 733P build (with an alpha strike of only 37, but with LRM fire support added in), both of which have a NARC to assist in spotting for LRMs while poptarting.

[Podex]

Whichever one is strawberry flavored.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

somebody elses of course!

edit. ok non troll answer is that the dragon slayer with 2 ppc 2 ac5 is the favored one ATM.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 24 June 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[TercieI]

No offense, but between saying you don't play often and posting two builds that pretty much prove it, your point pretty much invalidates itself. :/

[Vezm]

Terciel1976, on 24 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

No offense, but between saying you don't play often and posting two builds that pretty much prove it, your point pretty much invalidates itself. :/

Read the post again. He's trying to get advice, not make a point. He hasn't tried one yet so this isn't him trying to prove his is the best.

The general consensus is the Dragon Slayer is top Poptart dog with 2 PPC 2 AC/5 combo (replace one with an ultra for goodness), the other Victors will serve well as well.

I personally used the Cataphact 3D for a while, it proved effective with the same weapon setup but it got boring, so it's been reconfigured through a few brawler builds.

The best poptarts focus on poptarting well, not doing every job under the sun. I would define a poptart by it's focus on jump sniping not the ability to use it as a backup when a team stagnates. But that's not from the MWO dictionary or anything.


Edit: Spelling

Edited by Vezm, 24 June 2014 - 05:47 PM.

[TercieI]

Vezm, on 24 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Read the post again. He's trying to get advice, not make a point. He hasn't tried one yet so this isn't him trying to prove his is the best.

OK? Looks like a declarative statement to me?

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Terciel1976, on 24 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

No offense, but between saying you don't play often and posting two builds that pretty much prove it, your point pretty much invalidates itself. :/

Indeed. As Vezm pointed out, I wanted to get some advice, and to see what other people's opinions on what the best poptarting builds are. That's why the thread's title is as it is after all.

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 24 June 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

somebody elses of course!

edit. ok non troll answer is that the dragon slayer with 2 ppc 2 ac5 is the favored one ATM.

Vezm, on 24 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

The general consensus is the Dragon Slayer is top Poptart dog with 2 PPC 2 AC/5 combo (replace one with an ultra for goodness), the other Victors will serve well as well.

On a DPS/tonnage scale, the AC5 has superior DPS than the AC10 or AC20. For example, a mech with 2 AC10s will have a dps of 8, while a mech with 3 AC5s, which weighs the same as 2 AC10s, will have a DPS of 9.

However, when taking cover while your weapons are on cooldown, and only peeking out to take potshots at enemies, a high rate-of-fire isn't exactly useful in this kind of situation. As deadly as a Dakka Wolf (which is a Dire Wolf loaded with Ultra Autocannons, like this one here) can be, poptarts with very high alpha strike damage (like my Highlander 732 build from before) can, especially with skillful pilots, put out more damage towards a Dakka Wolf than a Dakka Wolf can on the poptart before the poptart lands behind cover. Moreover, if the poptart managed to NARC the Dakka Wolf while poptarting, and if the poptart's team has some missile boats nearby, then the slow-moving Dakka Wolf would need to endure volleys of LRM fire before getting the opportunity to close the distance towards the poptart, and bring its superior-DPS weaponry to bear.

Also, while the AC5 has a longer optimal and maximum range than the AC10, making it a superior choice for a sniping weapon (although Gauss Rifles and ERPPCs are better), from my personal experience, nearly all battles seem to have participants fight within 750m of eachother, with most of these battles being fought within 500m, which is close to the optimal range of the AC10 (and regular Inner Sphere Large Lasers and PPCs, as well as close to the maximum range of the NARC). Many of them are even fought within 250m, which is close to the maximum range of SRMs, and close to the optimal range of AC20s.

If I do decide that I need a higher DPS, then the Highlander 733C looks like a promising alternative to the 732, since I could fit up to 2 AC5s on it.

As for the dual PPCs, I'd much rather prefer to avoid having more than one PPC on my mech due to how much heat they generate, and how I'd probably need only one PPC to disable enemy ecm. Instead, I'd rather fill out the additional energy hardpoints with ERLLs and/or LPLs for better heat management, though I wonder if poptarts would even have enough time to apply most of the lasers' damage towards the target before sinking back into the ground.

Vezm, on 24 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

I personally used the Cataphact 3D for a while, it proved effective with the same weapon setup but it got boring, so it's been reconfigured through a few brawler builds.

I thought about using a Cataphract 3D as well, since they could mount so many direct-fire weapons, including up to 2 Gauss Rifles. However, I eventually settled on the Highlander because it could offer me more support options, including the ability to mount a NARC and an LRM20, in addition to a strong alpha strike.

Vezm, on 24 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

The best poptarts focus on poptarting well, not doing every job under the sun. I would define a poptart by it's focus on jump sniping not the ability to use it as a backup when a team stagnates. But that's not from the MWO dictionary or anything.

That is true for any mech. There are going to be weaknesses that can be exploited, so when choosing to specialize in a specific role, you'll need to choose weaknesses that you'll have to deal with. For my Highlander builds, I chose to make them as slow as a Dire Wolf, to give them less-than-full armor (especially in the legs), to give them an arsenal that has a difficult time hitting speedy lights, and that's not optimized for DPS, and for my 733P build with the LRM20, to sacrifice alpha strike damage potential for the ability to contribute to the battle indirectly as it slowly advances towards the front lines.

[John80sk]

1) Poptarting is a terrible place, and you should avoid it.

2) The highlander is bad at poptarting as a result of a JJ nerf that happened a while ago. Victor>Cataphract>Shadowhawk.

3) Large lasers and other madness do not go on poptarts. Poptarting depends on weapons that can deliver a high alpha strike to a single component. Gauss, PPC, AC5, UltraAC5 is all you need to know. The AC20 and AC10 are acceptable alternatives, but not ideal. This has less to do with their range and more to do with their projectile speed.

[TercieI]

Shadow Wolf TJC, on 25 June 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

Indeed. As Vezm pointed out, I wanted to get some advice, and to see what other people's opinions on what the best poptarting builds are. That's why the thread's title is as it is after all.

Then I apologize. And, as I said, no offense was intended (and still is not), but those builds are death traps. Your legs and cooling %s are fatal flaws, not just weaknesses. The KISS principle applies very much: pop-tarts should basically use PPCs and (U)AC5s or Gauss Rifles. Those guns will serve you well in most other situations while also bringing major alphas jump-sniping.

[Dark-Paladin]

Dragon slayer!

[zudukai]

here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6f4124d49e236f7

try something more akin to this. mess with armor and tweak this to suit, you want something like this.

maybe an ERPPC, maybe more ammo, maybe more JJ's, whatever, but start here.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Shadow Wolf TJC, on 24 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

I've yet to try one out for myself (especially since I don't play this game often), but to me, the best poptarter is one that not only has a powerful, precise alpha strike, but can support the team in other ways, such as this Highlander 732 build (with an alpha strike of 51), or this Highlander 733P build (with an alpha strike of only 37, but with LRM fire support added in), both of which have a NARC to assist in spotting for LRMs while poptarting.

I suggest using a 733C with 2xUAC5s and 2xPPC. The Highlanders are tanky and with that build you can not only poptart, but you can also deliver a lot DPS when your team needs it. This helps a huge deal from time to time as sometimes you just need to put in a lot of sustained damage to stop the enemy from zerging your team.

[JigglyMoobs]

Best pop tart right now is the timberwolf.
2n best is the dragon slayer.
3rd best is victor 9s.

Pop tarts don't carry enough DPS so they have to be fast. The highlander is to slow to do well solo.

[JigglyMoobs]

Also, with the JJ turn Nerf hgns can no longer turn fast enough to counter circling lights.

Moreover, with the clanners in play enemy poptars will be moving at 89 kp, same with most of the pop tarts on your own team. Under those circumstances its way too easy to get isolated. Unless you are a direwolf sporting huge firepower, mechs as slow as the hgn are not going to be competitive.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

I originally wanted to bring up this topic to debate about the best way for a heavy or assault mech (especially an Inner Sphere one) to counter the amazing firepower that the Dire Wolf can bring to bear. However, after some practice with the trial versions of both the Victor and Highlander, I'm afraid that poptarting is just not for me. (That, and lasers don't go well with poptarting.) Moreover, while I was willing to take a mech with a low top speed, I didn't like how slowly both mechs were accelerating and decelerating, which is bad for me, because when engaging enemies directly, I tend to rely more heavily on the environment to protect me than I do armor.

After some further testing, I've determined that mechs with a top speed of at least 95kph have acceleration and deceleration speeds that satisfy my brawling and sniping needs, so I'd most likely want to take a Quickdraw or Shadowhawk, which have several other benefits, including jumpjets, high-mounted energy and ballistic hardpoints, and the ability to mount a NARC for LRM spotting.

Here's my prototype of a Shadowhawk 2k build, and here's my prototype of a Quickdraw 5k build, although neither is optimized for poptarting since they use lasers to do most of their damage. I'm personally leaning more towards the Shadowhawk because I can fit the NARC, or SRMs, higher up than with the Quickdraw. Plus there are many other Shadowhawk variants that interest me, such as the missile-heavy 2d2, or the 5M, which has 2 ballistic and 2 energy hardpoints. Also, the trial variant of the Shadowhawk 2h seems built for poptarting, with its dual AC5s and single PPC, although I personally feel as if it could use more speed.

As far as I'm concerned about looking for an assault mech to purchase, I'm now thinking about saving up for this Stalker 5s build instead of a poptarting Victor or Highlander.

[JigglyMoobs]

Shadow Wolf TJC, on 26 June 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

I originally wanted to bring up this topic to debate about the best way for a heavy or assault mech (especially an Inner Sphere one) to counter the amazing firepower that the Dire Wolf can bring to bear. However, after some practice with the trial versions of both the Victor and Highlander, I'm afraid that poptarting is just not for me. (That, and lasers don't go well with poptarting.) Moreover, while I was willing to take a mech with a low top speed, I didn't like how slowly both mechs were accelerating and decelerating, which is bad for me, because when engaging enemies directly, I tend to rely more heavily on the environment to protect me than I do armor.

After some further testing, I've determined that mechs with a top speed of at least 95kph have acceleration and deceleration speeds that satisfy my brawling and sniping needs, so I'd most likely want to take a Quickdraw or Shadowhawk, which have several other benefits, including jumpjets, high-mounted energy and ballistic hardpoints, and the ability to mount a NARC for LRM spotting.

Here's my prototype of a Shadowhawk 2k build, and here's my prototype of a Quickdraw 5k build, although neither is optimized for poptarting since they use lasers to do most of their damage. I'm personally leaning more towards the Shadowhawk because I can fit the NARC, or SRMs, higher up than with the Quickdraw. Plus there are many other Shadowhawk variants that interest me, such as the missile-heavy 2d2, or the 5M, which has 2 ballistic and 2 energy hardpoints. Also, the trial variant of the Shadowhawk 2h seems built for poptarting, with its dual AC5s and single PPC, although I personally feel as if it could use more speed.

As far as I'm concerned about looking for an assault mech to purchase, I'm now thinking about saving up for this Stalker 5s build instead of a poptarting Victor or Highlander.

You cannot poptart with lasers. It just does not work due to the hit detection mechanism and the way that works with HSR. You will never get in the full damage.

Build a Shadowhawk with 2 PPCs and some SRMs instead. Use the PPCs for pop-tarting and SRMs for brawling. It will work. You will be happy.

[JigglyMoobs]

Ps- the victor feels much better once you elite it and equip it with the meta load out, but if you want speed and fun then the shadowhawk may be a better bet.

The timberwolf actually gives you exactly what you are looking for but you have to wait if you don't want to pay real money.

I would stay away from the stalker. It is more a victim than a threat in the current meta. Also, remember thatto elite your mechs you need to buy 3 mechs of the same variant. If you don't elite you never get the full benefit.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 27 June 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[Peenutts]

Don't be another sheep that can't think for him / her self.
Build stuff you like and you are good at.