156 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

Khobai, on 22 June 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

What are you talking about? Its all proportional.

15% longer cooldown means 15% less DPS regardless of whether the weapon fires once per second or once every five seconds. The fact a weapon has a shorter or longer cooldown is irrelevant because the DPS loss is the same either way: its a 15% loss of dps.

And 15% less DPS is hardly "nothing".



Nope. If a PPC fires 15% slower its suffering the same dps loss as an AC2 that fires 15% slower. Both are doing 15% less DPS. Long cooldown weapons do not suffer anymore than short cooldown weapons.

Also if you slow down a PPC you can still can torso twist away from the target in between shots. But slowing down a UAC5 still doesnt slow it down enough to allow you to torso twist away in between firings. Thats one reason why weapons with faster cooldowns have always been at an inherent disadvantage (they also tend to spread damage around more).

15% of a very low base number, is very little to no change at all.

The AC2 is still a very fast firing weapon, despite the 2 RoF nerfs its gotten, to the point where its hardly noticeable. I still miss the .5 sec it had, and its .8 now is somewhat more noticeable in terms of its RoF, but overall its still a fast firing gun. Another 15% on top of that would only tack on, at most, another .1 sec which wouldn't be a noticeable change. The AC5 is 1.66, 15% would only put it up by another .4 at the most, a change yes, one that is a little significant but easily adjustable to.


The way you are toting that 15% around, is like saying it will change things from 1sec firing to 4 seconds, its not that big of a change to even warrant putting it in. There are many other ways to change the DW, one includes leaving the damn mech ALONE. Hell the 15% that the DW prime arms have do help the PPC out, WHICH IS AN ALPHA weapon and NOT A DPS one, so it helps that gun, and the mech it is on. Different weapons do benefit from CD increases, like PPC's and even CERLL to give the mech more time to dissipate heat.

Also both mechs can be torso twisting away during CD's, people do that even now with PPC/Gauss setups due to the 4sec CD since they are alpha weapons and are NOT dps ones.

TL;DR The smaller the number, the less of an impact % based "nerfs" deal to the weapon in question.

[kapusta11]

Khobai, on 22 June 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

Well if IS weapons get converted to burst/splash damage that will definitely help.

And then what? You will still be firing massive bursts at relatively slow targets. Burst and splash is not enough simulation of dice rolling for each individual weapon. It was suggested before (and I was actually arguing with this point) that group fire should be disabled, but now, that we have targeting comp on horizon that can technically play it's role and allow group fire for a price, it seems like a good idea after all. The chances of that happening is a bit higher than zero though.

Edited by kapusta11, 22 June 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The way you are toting that 15% around, is like saying it will change things from 1sec firing to 4 seconds, its not that big of a change to even warrant putting it in.

Its not supposed to be a big change.

Four UACs that do 14 dps will only do 11.9 dps after a 15% cooldown nerf.

But that is a loss of 2 dps, which is about the equivalent of losing a large laser's worth of dps

[Claviger]

orin, on 22 June 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

Dire Wolves might be the easiest mech to put down in a game using an IS heavy or assault simply because it's hard *not* to hit the CT and the thing moves like a beached whale on tranquilizers. They are like a bit "free kill" sign walking around the battlefield.

Easily the most disappointing of the Clan mechs. As I said in another thread - the only reason the Wolf's Dragoons would have given this 'mech to Victor and Hohiro is if they wanted them to die in the first few minutes of the next battle.

You clearly havrn't run into someone who can use one is all I see.

[H Seldon]

Xarian, on 21 June 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

LRMs will hit you in the arms/side torsos about 70% of the time if you turn your side to them. Don't stare at them and you'll live longer. No sense complaining about a balanced mech.

They don't hit the arms and side torsos when you are perpendicular to incoming fire. The land on the hood, and that is all CT. I can spread energy and ballistics fairly well when 1v1, but nothing works against LRMs.

[SgtMagor]

Land Pigs need some lovin...fix the CT

[Roper Band]

Navid A1, on 21 June 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

oh... and the walking animation... every single move the dire wolf makes is goofy... jumping up and down...tip toeing... twist glitches... sliding ice skating legs (gives the feeling that the mech is walking on slippery ice and its legs are slipping...).

Agreed. I hate the walking animation for the DW.

[SgtMagor]

from a pilots 3rd person view, the animation may look a little wonky, but what your missing is how all the parts of the mech are reacting to gravity ( not sure how they implement weight and gravity in game) so as the mech is moving along the impact from the legs hitting the ground gives the mech a bobbing movement, so you can see its a machine with separate parts, actually I think it looks really kewl.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Redshift2k5, on 21 June 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

So you want the most firepower of any mech, but you also want it to facetank like a Stalker?

It's CT is huge but it's not broken. Looks like working as intended to me.

The Stalker on the other hand... has among the heaviest firepower of any I.S. mech PLUS it can tank. Totally not broken. Even though it's been among the best mechs in the game since it came out in freakin' Dec. 2012. Very fair.

[SgtMagor]

the Dire Wolf is a paper Tiger compared to the Stalker, 15 ton lighter mech than can tank damage better than a 100tonner. something seems a little off!...

[xMintaka]

The Dire Wolf can mount the equivalent weapons payload of a large nuclear bomb.

You want to buff that?

[Fatal25]

The hitbox is too big, period. LRM shred Direwolves very quickly. If LRM hit the hood it should go to the side torsos (which is the whole purpose of a protective hood), which will then blow off the torso and arm dramatically depleting the Direwolves ability to deal damage. The thing is already big and slow and can barely turn. Trying to kill a light mech doing the toilet bowl of doom around you is very challenging to say the least. Yes they can do a ton of damage, but they also die very quickly since 80% of the shots on you seem to hit the CT. I have mastered all three variants of the Direwolf and I can say with certainty that the hitbox is too big compared to other mechs I have played.

Edited by Fatal25, 22 June 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Archon, on 21 June 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

I understand the reason for those things, and they're not what I'm taking issue with, I'm using them as examples as to why the Direwolf doesn't need a broken CT hitbox on top of all of those drawbacks it already has.

yes, it really does. Because otherwise it becomes the Death Star, incinerating anything in front of it.

SgtMagor, on 22 June 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

the Dire Wolf is a paper Tiger compared to the Stalker, 15 ton lighter mech than can tank damage better than a 100tonner. something seems a little off!...

When the Stalker can realistically carry over 120 damage alpha, let's talk.
DWF-PRIME

or a 75pt PPFLD alpha
DWF-PRIME
Yes, it works, though you really only want to use that 3rd PPC on special occasions.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 June 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Ozeo]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 June 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

yes, it really does. Because otherwise it becomes the Death Star, incinerating anything in front of it.


When the Stalker can realistically carry over 120 damage alpha, let's talk.
DWF-PRIME

This death star is offset by the fact that it can only move at 47 km/h

When it can move faster then that, then lets talk.

The Direwolf is a slow moving battleship, it's not agile, it's not a dancer. It moves forward slowly like a boulder and is meant to crush anything in it's way. Lights can rip it apart faster then an atlas.

The DW has more then enough weak points, having a massive CT is not meant to be one of them, a volley of LRM's only hit CT.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ozeo, on 22 June 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

This death star is offset by the fact that it can only move at 47 km/h

When it can move faster then that, then lets talk.

The Direwolf is a slow moving battleship, it's not agile, it's not a dancer. It moves forward slowly like a boulder and is meant to crush anything in it's way. Lights can rip it apart faster then an atlas.

The DW has more then enough weak points, having a massive CT is not meant to be one of them, a volley of LRM's only hit CT.

Wow, you must have special LRMs, mine never seem to concentrate CT only.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Lunatech, on 22 June 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

The Dire Wolf can mount the equivalent weapons payload of a large nuclear bomb.

You want to buff that?

Some people won't stop till the Daishi not only hits like a nuke but only tanks damage like a walking bunker.

Because after all, they payed money for it. So it obviously has to dominate everything in it's class.

Poor Atlas that does not even get close when it comes to raw firepower, has similar speed and should have worse hitboxes than the Daishi if some people in here are to be believed. Because you know, balance. Still waiting for the highly anticipated "give the Dire Wolf ECM" thread as a finishing touch.

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 22 June 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 22 June 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Some people won't stop till the Daishi not only hits like a nuke but only tanks damage like a walking bunker.

Because after all, they payed money for it. So it obviously has to dominate everything in it's class.

Poor Atlas that does not even get close when it comes to raw firepower, has similar speed and should have worse hitboxes than the Daishi if some people in here are to be believed. Because you know, balance. Still waiting for the highly anticipated "give the Dire Wolf ECM" thread as a finishing touch.

And the poor Atlas get neutered how fast? I see them lose that RT far faster than I see DWs get cored out. DW is still, used intelligently, a far far more effective anchor and weapons platform.

It is a horrible, solo PUG mech, and should stay that way. Used well in a formation? It IS the Death Star.

Buff it more for solo play and it becomes that unstoppable Kaiju of doom when used in a team.

[Xarian]

Khobai, on 22 June 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Its the more balanced builds like x4 UAC5, x2 MG, x2 ERPPC, x6 ERSL that get scary. And a +15% ballistic cooldown would definitely hurt that build. Especially in conjunction with the +15% energy cooldown the Daishi already has.

I'm on board with a ballistics cooldown penalty for the Direwolf. I'd go with 10% per B torso. UAC/5 spam (and to a lesser extent UAC/10 spam) is just far too powerful in terms of sustained damage.

This is coming from a guy who plays Direwolves a lot. I'd like to see people run other builds than just dakka spam.

Ragnar Darkmane, on 22 June 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Because after all, they payed money for it. So it obviously has to dominate everything in it's class.

Those people were, are, and will continue to be idiots. Using them as part of an argument against changing bugged hitboxes or whatever would be wrong.

[Khobai]

Quote

The Dire Wolf can mount the equivalent weapons payload of a large nuclear bomb.

You want to buff that?

No I want its CT fixed in exchange for a nerf to its ballistic fire rate. Seems like a fair trade to me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 22 June 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

No I want its CT fixed in exchange for a nerf to its ballistic fire rate. Seems like a fair trade to me.

so you are OK with me melting your face as long as it's NOT ballistics (which in Clan MEchs are far less effective than their IS equivalents, anyhow)?
DWF-PRIME

OK then.