12 replies to this topic

[Mark of Caine]

First of all, apologies if this thread has been done before.

Second, did some testing in the Testing Grounds with a double UAC5 Atlas build, and loaded up with 120 rounds, but only used up 100 rounds for testing purposes.

My primary concern was the jam rate when firing during the gun's cooldown period, and with the new mechanic of having to click for every shot, which incidentally I already did do that with a pair of AC5 on chain fire mode. I dare say PGI has hit the sweet spot.

Here are my results:
Please note each test was with firing precisely 100 shots on target in the Testing Grounds.


Number of Weapon Jams per 100 shots:
Test #1: 4 jams
Test #2: 9 jams (I hit most of these jams in a space of 15 shots I think)
Test #3: 5 jams
Test #4: 6 jams
Test #5: 2 jams (yep that's right, jammed only twice on 100 shots!)

Average jam rate based on 5 tests: 5.2%

Now, admittedly, this is a small sample, and the average jam rate can fluctuate over a long period of time; maybe higher, maybe lower.

But as far as I'm concerned, after these brief tests, I believe the UAC5 is viable again as a weapon. Is it meta? Meh, I don't care personally. I loved this gun back in closed beta, and for me, personally, IT'S BACK!!!

So, PGI, thank you for bringing back the UAC5 from that dusty old storage bin!

I'm also curious if others have, or would want, to repeat my little test and see if their average jam rate is around the 5% mark...

[MountainCopper]

I also have been testing the new UAC mechanic today. I don't fully understand my findings...
I only took out two UAC5s on an IS Mech.

1) Firing both at the same time (same weapon group, no chain-fire), they fire once when holding down the button and no more than that, no matter how long the button is pressed.

That's what I have been reading about in the patch notes.


2) Firing both guns in chain-fire mode does fire them repeatedly like chain-fired AC5s.

Don't understand if that's by design or a forgotten remnant... but this is really confusing right now.


3) Jamming tests:

• Firing the 2nd shot as soon as possible, ~0.3s later, the gun seems to have the high jamming percentage advertised: 20% (?)
  
• Waiting with the 2nd shot until about half the cooldown was finished, the gun doesn't seem to jam at all. The perceived jamming chance was ~5% after multiple tests.

Can someone explain points 2 and 3?

Edited by GoldenFleece, 21 June 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Ironwithin]

Ok so after some testing I think GoldenFleece found the actual REASON for this out-of-the-blue change in UACs.

Previously, no matter if you tabbed or held the button, those things could jam on your very first shot (I know mine did, all the time).
NOW though, if you have 2 or more UAC5 and put them on chainfire you can hold the button down, they will never ever jam (just fired 300 rounds through 2 IS UAC5 and not a single jam). You only get single-shots out of them this way.

If you double-fire, your second shot out of the gun can jam (did 100 rounds through single UAC5, double-firing, 5 jams, always on the "second" shot).

So I suspect this is PGIs way of "fixing" the jam on first rounds, now that can't really happen.

Edited by Ironwithin, 21 June 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Koniving]

GoldenFleece, on 21 June 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

2) Firing both guns in chain-fire mode does fire them repeatedly like chain-fired AC5s.

Don't understand if that's by design or a forgotten remnant... but this is really confusing right now.


3) Jamming tests:

• Firing the 2nd shot as soon as possible, ~0.3s later, the gun seems to have the high jamming percentage advertised: 20% (?)
  
• Waiting with the 2nd shot until about half the cooldown was finished, the gun doesn't seem to jam at all. The perceived jamming chance was ~5% after multiple tests.

Can someone explain points 2 and 3?

Point 2 is that with chain fire, it automatically queues and fires the next weapon. If it just stopped then the purpose of chain fire would be defeated.

Point 3 sounds like a skill-based fluke; that can't be intended by PGI it somehow sounds like intelligent design. Though in all seriousness that sounds good. It means if you rush the gun, you jam. If you don't rush the gun, you can fire just fine. Much like a .22 caliber semi-automatic. If you fire it normally you'll be fine. Yes you can fire it as fast as an automatic or faster even, but when you do you'll jam. So point 3 makes a great deal of sense and it sounds like some intelligent design was actually used here. (Quick, who replaced Paul, and can his replacement stay?)

[MountainCopper]

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Point 2 is that with chain fire, it automatically queues and fires the next weapon. If it just stopped then the purpose of chain fire would be defeated.

So it seems that the concept of chain-fire takes priority over their newly introduced "UACs will stop firing after one shot when you keep the fire button pressed". Okay.

Koniving, on 21 June 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Point 3 sounds like a skill-based fluke; that can't be intended by PGI it somehow sounds like intelligent design. Though in all seriousness that sounds good. It means if you rush the gun, you jam. If you don't rush the gun, you can fire just fine. Much like a .22 caliber semi-automatic. If you fire it normally you'll be fine. Yes you can fire it as fast as an automatic or faster even, but when you do you'll jam. So point 3 makes a great deal of sense and it sounds like some intelligent design was actually used here. (Quick, who replaced Paul, and can his replacement stay?)

So, I take it that it isn't by design at present?

The chance to jam when you fire during cooldown is the same, regardless of how long I waited after the initial shot? It should be the 20% (?) for both my test scenarios.

[Koniving]

GoldenFleece, on 21 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

So it seems that the concept of chain-fire takes priority over their newly introduced "UACs will stop firing after one shot when you keep the fire button pressed". Okay.

Chain fire by design is simply an automated macro that fires each weapon one at a time for you, waiting until either 0.5 seconds or the last weapon is finished firing (whichever is longer).
It does the click for you, and if you are chain firing your weapons you are firing one weapon at a time, instead of say 6 autocannons at once. There is no reason for it to stop you, and just by using chain fire you are severely nerfing yourself. Why should it nerf you further?
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Quote

So, I take it that it isn't by design at present?

The chance to jam when you fire during cooldown is the same, regardless of how long I waited after the initial shot? It should be the 20% (?) for both my test scenarios.

That rate is how it's been for ages.
So yes, a varied rate depending on when you fire is quite new.

Of course as the weapon was originally designed, you could only fire it again at exactly half or later of the cooldown time. But at some point in 2013 that got broken and players liked it so they never fixed it.

If they did do a varied rate depending on when you fire intentionally without telling us, then it was almost exclusively to deal with the later-arriving triple shot bug (which I suspect the tap fire was also for the same reason).

This one's very obvious.


For this one watch the shot count.

Edited by Koniving, 22 June 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[killkrazed]

Honestly speaking,

They need to set it so that holding down the trigger will still fire it like a normal AC5.
As it stands, holding it in without the second shot ever being fired is seriously dampening the dps potential.
Unless you have a macro to perfectly time the shots, so it fires as soon as reloaded.
Having to resort to Macro's too keep full DPS is NOT what we should be doing.

Likewise, chainfire does not output the full damage on loadouts with large amounts of AC's.

I understand they want to try to limit bugs and jamming, but this is a bit much. They just seem "Slow" now.

[Gorgo7]

I love the new fix for the UAC5.
I have been taping the trigger for rapid fire for a very long time now. Always in the past pining the trigger would result in a seemingly higher chance of jamming.
The versatile and deadly UAC5 now becomes a weapon of skill instead of spray and pray.

[MountainCopper]

Koniving, on 22 June 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Of course as the weapon was originally designed, you could only fire it again at exactly half or later of the cooldown time. But at some point in 2013 that got broken and players liked it so they never fixed it.

I learn something new about MWO every other day...

Koniving, on 22 June 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

If they did do a varied rate depending on when you fire intentionally without telling us, then it was almost exclusively to deal with the later-arriving triple shot bug (which I suspect the tap fire was also for the same reason).

After some more wasted ammunition in the Training Grounds, it seems that the jamming chance is yet the same across the range of the cooldown meter. And not as low as I suspected above.

Shots fired: 720 from 2 UAC5s
Jams: 72 of 360
Chance to jam: ~20%

[MountainCopper]

Gorgo7, on 23 June 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

I love the new fix for the UAC5.
I have been taping the trigger for rapid fire for a very long time now. Always in the past pining the trigger would result in a seemingly higher chance of jamming.
The versatile and deadly UAC5 now becomes a weapon of skill instead of spray and pray.

I like the change apart from not being able to fire continuously in normal mode while holding the button down. The way it is right now, I'm not going to press the fire button for every single shot from the guns.

Would very likely lead to a hurting mouse hand, I already get occasionally from other games. This new mechanic doesn't exactly bode well in this regard...

[Gorgo7]

GoldenFleece, on 23 June 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

I like the change apart from not being able to fire continuously in normal mode while holding the button down. The way it is right now, I'm not going to press the fire button for every single shot from the guns.

Would very likely lead to a hurting mouse hand, I already get occasionally from other games. This new mechanic doesn't exactly bode well in this regard...

What's wrong with every single (second shot during cool down) shot? Personally, I land rounds more often and go through less ammo. Imagine pinning the trigger on a Clan UAC10, if it just followed automatically every .5 sec you would have a bullet hose that emptied so fast the average new player would soon be empty and very bad habits like that are hard to break.
Besides, sore finger? Aren't you playing enough already for a sore finger? I am.

[RatBast]

I am also of the opinion that the UACs need to perform like standard ACs when the button is held down. However, this might be 'working as intended' in order to provide an incentive to take ACs over UACs... but I hope not. I just find having to tap repeatedly on the mouse button to fire more than one shot to be annoying.

Edited by RatBast, 23 June 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[MountainCopper]

Gorgo7, on 23 June 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

What's wrong with every single (second shot during cool down) shot? Personally, I land rounds more often and go through less ammo. Imagine pinning the trigger on a Clan UAC10, if it just followed automatically every .5 sec you would have a bullet hose that emptied so fast the average new player would soon be empty and very bad habits like that are hard to break.

The shorter the cooldown the worse it is having to click for every single shot. What right now maybe manageable for the UAC10 and UAC20, is a difficulty with the UAC5.
And an impossibility for the UAC2, I'd imagine.

Gorgo7, on 23 June 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

Besides, sore finger? Aren't you playing enough already for a sore finger? I am.

If I really wanted a hurting hand, I'd reinstall and play Altitude. Arrow-keys for movement, A S D for weapons...

Edited by GoldenFleece, 23 June 2014 - 08:03 AM.