84 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Mawai, on 03 October 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

It would be nice. I actually think this was their original plan or why else include an elite tier skill that affects convergence. However, I think there was a technical issue related to server side load, HSR, hacking, or similar that makes timed convergence difficult to implement. It may have to do with server authoritative requirements.

Consider the extra work required for the server to track the convergence of every weapon on every mech on the map at every moment in the game. So what happens if convergence is client side?

At the moment the client probably just sends the aim point along with the fire command. An aimbot hack can only affect the point of aim passed to the server ... however, if you used client side convergence then the hack could also indicate that the weapons are always perfectly converged. Aimbots may not work that well due to HSR and lag ... but if they also guaranteed full convergence I could see this type of abuse escalating.

Anyway, I would like to see an explanation sometime from PGI about convergence and alternatives (since I haven't seen one) ... but I can understand why it might be difficult to do even though it would appear to address some current game issues.

Which is why you simply don't have torso weapons or arms without lower actuators converge. You don't do slow convergence, you simply let those weapons fire straight ahead without convergence and let the arms with lower actuators(most of which suffer from being low slung) converge.

Then you mark off the reticles with the fixed firing points of the non-converging weapons so that people can use that to adjust their aim. They would have to fire them in sequence to put them all on the same spot or they could "alpha" or group fire and then they would hit all over the enemy mech.

[Hoax415]

The problem with a plan where you make some weapons pinpoint and others not pinpoint is that you just rendered so many chassis useless.

Throw out the tier list because there is now only one thing that matters: Lower Actuator arm hardpoints. Mechs that have them are now almost always better than mechs that don't have them.

Say hello to your new overlord: the GRF-1S which is currently considered a tier 4 mech.

You are much much much much better off using a cone of fire system where the more weapons you fire at once or the more rapidly you are firing them (also should be how hot your mech is) the more your shots deviate from pinpoint on the center dot accuracy.

This could do several things if implemented correctly:
-it makes heat matter again because there is a real penalty people care about if you are way up the heat scale. No more sniping at 60-90% heat.
-it probably increases TTK because in order to fire pinpoint you need to wait longer between shots or run cooler or fire less weapons at once.
-it should allow the removal of ghost heat. Ghost heat is already a guide to what weapons should enlarge the cone the most. Firing a PPC or Gauss with other weapons would make for a bigger spread than say firing a 3 MLAS. Ghost heat works as a guide for setting the initial spread values

Convergence is something that was tried and didn't work well at all as anyone who played back then can tell you.

[BearFlag]

Here we go. We need more new systems and variables for PGI.

Proposal One: The way to fix end-point damage is to nerf accuracy. NOT. Stripped of ornate system and narrative fluff (hundreds of forum pages now) convergence/COF "solutions" use reduced accuracy.

Proposal Two, the current: The way to fix end-point damage is to nerf rate of fire. Stripped of ornate system and narrative fluff heat "solutions" target effective ROF.

We really need to cut through the bull on these dozens of proposals and identify what they are really doing. They are trying to solve a damage problem (if indeed it is a problem) through other means when the existing, in-game parameters are more than sufficient to address any perceived problem.

"Pixel perfect Pinpoint Damage" is a problem? Aside from the fact, that it doesn't exist in the game (at best damage is component-perfect), not all agree that it is a problem. But if you want to spread out the damage then spread it out. Splash it to adjacent components ala PPC. Proportional to range? Easy. No COF, no calculated angles, no ornate system. (Reduce Accuracy)

"High Alpha Damage" a problem? Fine. Reduce weapons damage, increase armor (again). Specifically lasers, you say? Fine. Reduce their damage. Reduce hard points. Etc. (Reduce Damage)

"Fast Alpha Repeat" is a monster? Well, you do have a problem then. Many players will not like being told they have fire less in a FPS any more than they like the idea of firing less accurately in a FPS. But OK. Increase cooldowns. Bring the overheat horizon closer. Etc., etc. (Reduce ROF)

"Laser Damage over Range" is ticking you off? Oddly, this is probably the largest component of the problem but is often overlooked. No one is thrilled with 36 points of damage at 800 meters from ERLLs. Change laser "optimum range" to zero (ie eliminate it). Use linear dropoff. This brings lasers more into line with ACs which do less damage over range either by exceeding optimum or by the need to caliber down to range up. (Reduce damage by range)

In this case, we have Ghost Heat 2.0. While it strives to make it more fair or inclusive, "heat penalties" are still Ghost Heat. It is by no means easier to understand for new players. The current system, such as it is, is simpler. X mediums no penalty, X+1 penalty. It throttles ROF through heat accumulation without an elaborate system. Of course, Ghost Heat of any brand is the wrong way to solve a damage problem, IMHO.

In the end the variables to address perceived damage problems already exist. A new conjured system, regardless of its narrative "basis", with new variables and tweak points is simply not needed.

[4rcs1ne]

Holy necropost batman!

[BearFlag]

Sorry. Somebody bumped it to the first page.


EDIT. Oh I see. It was referenced in another thread which was itself bumped.

Edited by BearFlag, 05 March 2016 - 07:54 PM.