20 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

We have two Clan light mechs, but since they are so slow, they cannot be played like the IS lights. They might have plenty of weapons, but they don't have the armor to go flying through enemy formations like the IS lights can.

The Dasher and its MASC might be a problem, so we might not get that for a while.

What we really need are the Fenris and Dragonfly. They will be almost as fast as the Jenner, Spider, and Firestarter, but they will have more armor and possibly better weapons.

The only problem with them is that they will dominate the IS lights so badly that Clans will really be OP then.

What do you guys think? Shouldn't we get the fastest 3050 TRO Clan mechs they have, or will it be too much for the IS to handle?

[Varent]

I would say this. Give them the Dasher, however, load it up with the largest engine possible, make it lightning fast. Even faster then the locust.

Leave very little room for weapons, almost no weight available and limited slots so that players using it will be limited to what they can use.

That leaves balance so that you can have your super fast mech but you are under armed.

[Carrioncrows]

The Fenris is 45 ton medium that goes 129 kph and has no jumpjets, bad hardpoints and 9.5 tons of pod space.

At best you are looking at maybe Er ppc and 2-3 meds

The Dragonfly is a little better off because it does have jumpjets and a well rounded array of hardpoints but it only has 9 tons of pod space.

I don't think they will be dominating anyone.

But they will certainly be fun.

[Diablobo]

The Dasher already has a plenty big engine, and even without MASC it is able to outrun everything but the Locust. After doubling the armor, there will only be 4.5 tons for weapons, but that is more than enough to hit as hard as a Jenner or Firestarter. The only problem is it's a 20 tonner and doesn't have enough armor to duel the Firestarter or Jenner.

[FupDup]

If we want a truly "competitive" fast Clan mech, the Arctic Cheetah knows no equal.

http://www.sarna.net.../Arctic_Cheetah


Stats:
Tonnage: 30
Speed: 142.6 kph (after speed tweak)
JJs: 6 hardwired
Pod space: 8 tons (after you max out the armor like one should)

The Prime is also ECM capable right out of the box. This mech would pretty much futtbuck any other fast Clan mech option you can think of. Go for the gold.

[EyeOne]

Carrioncrows, on 25 June 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

The Fenris is 45 ton medium that goes 129 kph and has no jumpjets, bad hardpoints and 9.5 tons of pod space.

It's basically a Clan Cicada.

[Diablobo]

Carrioncrows, on 25 June 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

The Fenris is 45 ton medium that goes 129 kph and has no jumpjets, bad hardpoints and 9.5 tons of pod space.

At best you are looking at maybe Er ppc and 2-3 meds

The Dragonfly is a little better off because it does have jumpjets and a well rounded array of hardpoints but it only has 9 tons of pod space.

I don't think they will be dominating anyone.

But they will certainly be fun.

They will have the same tonnage for weapons as the Jenner and Firestarter, but they will have more armor. They will totally kick the IS' butts.

[Diablobo]

FupDup, on 25 June 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

If we want a truly "competitive" fast Clan mech, the Arctic Cheetah knows no equal.

http://www.sarna.net.../Arctic_Cheetah


Stats:
Tonnage: 30
Speed: 142.6 kph (after speed tweak)
JJs: 6 hardwired
Pod space: 8 tons (after you max out the armor like one should)

The Prime is also ECM capable right out of the box. This mech would pretty much futtbuck any other fast Clan mech option you can think of. Go for the gold.

Since we already have a jumping ECM 30 tonner, we should get the Fenris or Dragonfly instead. It is plenty fast, but giving it ECM might be too OP.

[wolf74]

The Dasher would Break the Current Limiting Rule set MWO has in Play

For those of you who don't know the MWO current Rules here they are
1. Min Engine Rating is equal to Mech's Weight times two if this is under 100 default to 100.
2a. Mech's Stock engine times weight class equals Max Engine for that mech, if that Value is higher than 8.4 times Mech weight default to 8.4 time Mech Weight for Max Engine
2b. Max Engine Rating is equal to Mech's Weight times 8.4 if this is over 400 default to 400.

Weigh Class Values
Light = 1.4
Medium = 1.3
Heavy & Assault = 1.2

the Dasher come with a XL200 engine which is a 10 times the mech's Weight. Default speed would be about 150kph with burst speed of 200kph with MASC.

Edited by wolf74, 25 June 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[101011]

Varent, on 25 June 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

I would say this. Give them the Dasher, however, load it up with the largest engine possible, make it lightning fast. Even faster then the locust.

Leave very little room for weapons, almost no weight available and limited slots so that players using it will be limited to what they can use.

That leaves balance so that you can have your super fast mech but you are under armed.

First: the Dasher is faster than the Locust. Second: the Commando is faster than the Locust as well, making it a better example. Third: You are suggesting that they change the stock loadouts for practically no reason. Even if they put it in-game as is, I doubt it would be very popular. As Diablobo said above, the lack of armor will make it a very soft target.

wolf74, on 25 June 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

-snip-

Then update the rules, quiaff?

Edited by 101011, 25 June 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[Mechteric]

I think the current clan light mechs could use MASC, that would certainly help bridge the gap until faster ones come along.

[Torgun]

FupDup, on 25 June 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

If we want a truly "competitive" fast Clan mech, the Arctic Cheetah knows no equal.

http://www.sarna.net.../Arctic_Cheetah


Stats:
Tonnage: 30
Speed: 142.6 kph (after speed tweak)
JJs: 6 hardwired
Pod space: 8 tons (after you max out the armor like one should)

The Prime is also ECM capable right out of the box. This mech would pretty much futtbuck any other fast Clan mech option you can think of. Go for the gold.

I like it, mostly because the name arctic cheetah made me chuckle.

[Lootee]

Most clan light mechs are just plain bad. The fast clan mediums is where it's at.

Fenris, Dragonfly, Grendel, Black Lanner and Phantom are all faster than the initial invasion light mechs except the Dasher. The 2nd line clan lights like the Vixen and Packhunter are not bad but doubt they would be added.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 25 June 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[1453 R]

The Arctic Cheetah is effectively a Clan OmniSpider. There’s nothing wrong with that, and yet there is EVERYTHING wrong with that. The Prime would have 4E/2M w/ECM and jump jets. I cannot even imagine the levels of PEE TWO DOUBLEYOU the forum would scream over this thing, even if it was released for C-bills. Piranha would be able to hear the screams of “OP! OP!!” from Europe, let alone down here in the States.

I would also buy it. So hard. So hard. And this coming from a man with a teeth-gnashing, soul-deep hatred of Spiders. Seriously, screw those little trollish jerkbagss and their impossible stick-figure hitboxes...

Anyways. As for the Ice Ferret and Viper…I want the Viper even more than I would theoretically want the Arctic Cheetah. It’s not as horribusted OmniSpider F*** Your Mothers angry as the Arctic Cheetah, but the notion of a machine that hits 142 w/Tweak and slings eight jump jets with an energy-heavy loadout (Viper Alt. Configs A or D) appeals deeply to the Cicada/Firestarter player in me. That and we actually have a reasonable chance of seeing the Viper, as opposed to the distilled elixir of forum-raging OP that is the Arctic Cheetah

EDIT: Did some calculations off the C variant in Sarna, which eliminates unknown ammo counts (and since I don’t know exactly where to find the proper TRO-style loadout sheets for the OmniMechs. Or the BattleMechs for that matter), and apparently the Arctic Cheetah’s got 9.5t pod space. 9.5t pod space. On a 30t ‘Mech.

Derivation:

Sarna Says: “[The Arctic Cheetah C] variant excels in urban combat and scouting thanks to its Active Probe. This hunter-killer makes use of four ER Medium Lasers and a pair of Medium Pulse Lasers in addition to the standard Flamer.”

CAP: 1t
4x C-ERML: +4t (5t)
2x CMPL: +4t (9t)
C-Flamer: +0.5t (9.5t)

A 30t Clan OmniMech with all the upgrades, no extraneous heat sinks, and 9.5t free to improve armor/sling weapons around, with ECM in its Prime variant and thus no excuse for Piranha to not give it its ECM slot. My God. OmniSpider nothing – this thing would pretty much flat invalidate every other Clan light/fast medium ‘Mech in Creation, and most of the Inner Sphere ones.

Edited by 1453 R, 25 June 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[1453 R]

All right. Some theorymongering work on the Arctic Cheetah, since this busted little monster is apparently the gold standard for Clan fasties and has also gotten itself stuck in my head. And because I'm fed up with the CLANS OP threads for a while.

1.) We’d get the Prime, B, and C variants. All other variants are either things we could already do inside the Prime variant (A, D), or encompass weapons we don’t have yet (E, F, and H). Mostly heavy lasers. I don’t even want to know what this thing could do to people with heavy lasers implemented. Good God. The thought alone makes me dizzy.

That said:
-Prime: ECM, 4E, 2M
-B: 1B, 3E
-C: 7E

No, I don’t know if you could find a way to implement 7E/2M and thereby officially Win MechWarrior Online, but somehow I highly doubt it.

2.) Even with the Prime omnipods alone, you can turn this thing into an unnatural demon of pwnsteria. 4E gives your four C-ERSLs, and even with the things bumped up to 3 heat as will probably happen relatively soon, that’s twenty damage in dagger range with IS-like beam durations. You can also max out the armor, and then give it ECM and two C-SRM-6 with two tons of ammo for the launchers. 4x C-ERSL, 2x C-SRM-6, ECM, 6x jump capability? Lordamighty, this thing is stupid good.

3.) The C-variant does what the Firestarter does except with ECM. 8t pod space left over after maxing armor means it has just enough tonnage to put a C-ERML in every single hardpoint and an ECM in that slot as well. That would be a fairly dumb way to go about doing things, but 6x C-ERML w/ECM and an extra heat sink wouldn’t be. Little sucker would still be toasty, but that’s all the standoff range and much of the damage of a 6x ISLL ‘Mech, that moves at 142kph with ECM and significant jump capacity.

4.) This guy doesn’t actually out-CLRM the Cute Fox, giving one Invasion light a continued reason to exist post Arctic Cheetah. The Cute Fox is much slower, of course, but is also thusly able to devote more tonnage to its weapons array, and can also still carry ECM. I have a Cute Fox that carries a C-ALRM-15 and a C-ALRM-10, with 4t ammo, basic jump capacity (two jets, for navigation purposes), ECM, and a medium laser that acts as the littlest missile boat that could. The Arctic Cheetah cannot match this, nor can it match the Cute Fox’s triple AMS shenanigans.

This is also largely irrelevant to high-level play, where the Cute Fox’s crippling speed issues are in no way mitigated by its heavier armament or its ECM capability. The Arctic Cheetah can still do C-ERPPC w/ECM, which is about the only possible job the Cute Fox has in the realms beyond Puglandia. Outside of two C-ERPPC w/ECM, which runs demonically hot and doesn’t have much competitive merit. Also the Adder basically doesn’t exist anymore at this point. Not that it has much grip in the game right now. Poor thing.

5.) Bees. My God.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 25 June 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

...
EDIT: Did some calculations off the C variant in Sarna, which eliminates unknown ammo counts (and since I don’t know exactly where to find the proper TRO-style loadout sheets for the OmniMechs. Or the BattleMechs for that matter), and apparently the Arctic Cheetah’s got 9.5t pod space. 9.5t pod space. On a 30t ‘Mech.
...

After you max out the armor, you only get 8 tons for pod space (which is still pretty workable, especially considering the Clan ER Medium Laser).

Edited by FupDup, 25 June 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[1453 R]

Correct. I did not, however, take into account maxing the armor in my calculations. I can and have run the Kit Fox with its stock armor levels, and while that stings, it permits some loadouts you otherwise wouldn't get.

The Arctic Cheetah gets 9.5t pod space with stock armor, which is kinda ridic. You can use a ton and a half of it to shore up the plating, which still leaves a respectable 8t space, though at that point you're competing with the Viper, which hits the same speed at more armor with better jump capability while retaining 8.5t space. Though the poor Viper never gets ECM, and will also almost certainly have a larger profile/worse hitboxes than the froggin' OmniSpider here. Though, with 3/3/3/3, the Viper and Ice Ferret are competing against each other/the Cicada rather than the Arctic Cheetah. Huzzah, contrived reason to live!

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 25 June 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Correct. I did not, however, take into account maxing the armor in my calculations. I can and have run the Kit Fox with its stock armor levels, and while that stings, it permits some loadouts you otherwise wouldn't get.

The Arctic Cheetah gets 9.5t pod space with stock armor, which is kinda ridic. You can use a ton and a half of it to shore up the plating, which still leaves a respectable 8t space, though at that point you're competing with the Viper, which hits the same speed at more armor with better jump capability while retaining 8.5t space. Though the poor Viper never gets ECM, and will also almost certainly have a larger profile/worse hitboxes than the froggin' OmniSpider here. Though, with 3/3/3/3, the Viper and Ice Ferret are competing against each other/the Cicada rather than the Arctic Cheetah. Huzzah, contrived reason to live!

Does 8.5 tons of space on the Viper count increasing the armor? IIRC, the Vipe doesn't get max stock armor. To the SSW-mobile!

EDIT: Hmmm, it actually comes with 98% armor stock. That's unexpected, especially because most fast Clan mechs run with low armor.

Edited by FupDup, 25 June 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[1453 R]

FupDup, on 25 June 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Does 8.5 tons of space on the Viper count increasing the armor? IIRC, the Vipe doesn't get max stock armor. To the SSW-mobile!

EDIT: Hmmm, it actually comes with 98% armor stock. That's unexpected, especially because most fast Clan mechs run with low armor.

Heck, might even be able to find an extra half-ton somewhere on it then. I know Sarna told me it came with effectively maxed plating; one of the reasons I really would rather have the Viper over the Ice Ferret. That and that delicious 5E/1M Alpha config I really, really hope I get to fly sometime.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I see the Koshi and Fenris being in the next Clan mech pack (2nd Wave Pack?), along with the Man O' War (fast assault) and either the Vulture or the Loki.

I could see a third mech pack coming out after MASC goes live, with the Dasher, Dragonfly, Vulture/Loki (whichever the first did not have), and Gladiator.

I anticipate the later omnis, like the Cougar, Shadow Cat, Cauldron Born, and Turkina, coming out only after a goodly while.