28 replies to this topic

[Nebfer]

This Is a collection of posts I made over at the MWLL forums about 2-3 years ago, on my thoughts on the capability's of battletech, so this is going to be a fair number of long posts.

With Italics being additions as I "repost" these

With a few recent threads on B-tech weapons I thought it might be a good idea for me to put up my 2 cents on this subject.
Now I do not clam to be 100% correct on this, but I have done more than one debate on B-tech, and much of the info I have used on this comes from the rules and fluff. Now Battletech is a very hard universe to get any idea on what it can do, and at times contradictory. Nor is it a universe that showcases it's technology very much, focusing more on people than technology. As such it dose not have teloporters, nanotech, advanced AIs and the like.

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Turn length
1: A regular B-tech turn is 10 seconds long, but the firing phase only takes place during a fraction of that time, after all the range calculation is based on where the units end up and not where they start from. This also applys to Capital scale's minute long turns.
2: Rule sets such as the old dueling rules reduced each turn to 2.5 seconds, and allowed a weapon to be fired every turn if the player wanted to (with a resulting monumental heat spike), thus further indicating that B-tech weapons fire takes place in less than a full 10 second turn.

Armor composition
1: B-tech armor is a composite comprising two main layers, the first is a Super hard steel alloy, the second is Cubic boron nitride (CBN) reinforced by diamond mono-filament, a third layer made from honey combed titanium acts as a structural support.
2: Ferro-Fibrous reinforces the steel layer with diamond mono-filament (a real trick)
3: due to the known armor mass on B-tech units and the large surface area mechs have, the armor would be at best about an inch thick, more likely less.

Energy Resistance capability's
1: The Fluff commonly mentions that the armor is routinely melted by a laser or particle cannon hit, with a few references to vaporization.
2: Assuming the armor is a 50 / 50 mix of Steel and CBN with a single point (62.5kg) of armor having roughly 30kg of each, and assuming the armor is melted.
3: The Steel layer would take about 28 megajoules to melt, the CBN layer would take about 170 megajoules for a combined total of just under 200 megajoules to melt one point of armor.
4: If one wanted to vaporize a single point of armor then the energy required would be roughly 450 megajoules or so. Though not all of the armor has to be vaporized or even melted (i.e. falling off) which would reduced the energy required.
5: As such a small laser would range from 100 megajoules to 1.5 gigajoules in power or more, depending on the values you use, but a full melt number would result in a small laser having 600 megajoules. And a Clan Heavy Large Laser would range from 530 Megajoules to 7.2 gigajoules with the full melting numbers being 3.2 gigajoules. Currently I tend to view the energy requirements as around 30-50 megajoules per damage point, to account for ICE engines being able to power energy weapons for at lest a few dozen shots and that their are a few issues with high yield energy weapons, at lest so I am told. Still a medium laser at ~200 megajoules per shot is still quite powerful, even compared to real life lasers.

Kinetic Energy Resistance
1: Autocannons are not typically used to get an idea of Ke Resistance due to largely unknown variables (how much mass is the propellant charge, how many rounds in a single shot, etc...), As such Gauss Rifles are preferred here.
2: Gauss Rifles are stated to fire hypersonic rounds (their are some quotes suggesting lower but I have found a lot more quotes supporting the higher speeds, never mind the rules...). Hypersonic is any velocity faster than Mach 5 (to about Mach 10ish) or 1,710m/s (~5,600fps). Though their not likely to be right at the hypersonic line but quite a bit faster than that. Particularly when using the ranges provided with capital scale a Gauss Rifle has a minimum MV of 6km/s (and a range of 360km -in space), though I'm not to fond of using these values, their a bit wacky, though they at the lest suggest that B-tech weapons have a very high MV.
3: Let's assume than a Gauss rifle has a MV of 2,200m/s (~mach 6.5, comfortably in the hypersonic range), as such a regular Gauss Rifle would have a Ke of 300 megajoules or roughly 20 megajoules per damage point. When scaled a heavy Gauss Rifle slug at 250kg (vs 125kg of the "regular Gauss") would have a MV of 2,000m/s and a Ke of some 500 megajoules.
4: 300 Megajoules (Mj) is roughly equivalent to a 16 inch battleships gun (like the ones on the North Carolina and South Dakota class's -which produced ~300 Mj at the muzzle) and 500 Mj is considerably more than the 18.1 inch guns on the Yamato (~440Mj).
5: Considering that B-tech armor is less than an inch thick and is perfectly capable of stopping multiple Gauss Impacts B-tech armor is quite impressive in this area (considering that current day tanks would be reduced to scrap when hit by a 16 inch naval shell). As such I find it unlikely that a real life Ke tank round is going to be all that effective on mech armor (also note than most real life tank rounds produce less than 9Mj of Ke). One thing to note is that with these velocity's a gauss rifle would have quite the recoil, so it would seem that B-tech has some impressive anti recoil gear that largely goes unreported.
6: While Autocannons are not typically used in such calculations they do fire hypervelocity shells (IIRC velocity's above 2km/s), though for the most part references to these speeds are uncommon, with the more generic term "high speed streams" being more often used. Also like wise capital scale ranges require very high velocity's to acheave.
7: As such even a weak weapon such a the AC-2 is quite powerful, being some five times more powerful (if not more) than most current tank guns.

Weakness
1: B-tech Armor seems to be weaker to burst fire weapons like Machineguns, hence why autocannons where created, as single shot weapons had to resort to firing really big rounds in order to start damaging the armor
2: B-tech Armor also is weaker to high mass and low velocity impacts than to high velocity and low mass impacts, such as melee attacks and falling damage.

Range
1: Total Warfare Mentions that the "relatively low" ranges are due to game play purposes, and not truly indicative of the universe (even then they still like to use them in fluff...).
2: Tactical ops introduces the Line of sight rules which allows many weapons to have ranges out to the units line of sight (which on a flat plain would be roughly out to the horizon or some 15km distant)
3: Tactical ops also introduces "Rifle" cannons, primitive weapons introduced and developed in the centuries before the autocannon was introduced in 2250, and is smiler to weapons we would use today (the "light rifle cannon" even has a smiler weight to current tank guns). One can use these weapons in-game range to get an idea of how much the ranges have been reduced for game play (basically, by roughly a factor of six to 14, depending on which B-tech weapon you use and the what real life range you use (i.e. three to five kilometers is typical for real life tanks)).
4: Strategic ops allows mechs and other units to be used in space, though they can only fire at units in their own hex, giving them a range of 9 to 18km (depending on the POV of where the mech is in the hex).

Infantry Weapons.
Well B-tech weapons are powerful and the armor equally as tough but how dose this apply to infantry weapons?
Their is some evidence for Infantry weapons being quite powerful in their own right. For example the fluff describes the Zeus Heavy Rifle as a 12.7mm weapon firing a 45 gram slug at hypersonic velocity's, thats at lest 65 kilojoules (more than three times the power of a 50 cal BMG round). Other Examples include a Laser pistol that has a yield of 100 kilojoules per shot (or 20g of TNT), Laser Rifles exploding heads, Tsunami Gauss Rifles with 1.5Mj of Ke, the well known Magshot delivering over 500 kilojoules of Ke and so on. Oh and their is some mention of "Nuclear" hand grenades... In any case That would be quite the recoil for the Zeus, though one of the novels mentions that it has recoil compensation that makes it feel more like a 7mm rifle.

And for thoughs who wounder what calibers B-tech autocannons are, well here's a list of Calibers that I have found. And as one can see theirs a few contradictions...

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Machineguns
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20mm Gatling = 20mm (TRO 3039) scorpion tank entry (same entry mentions 30mm based guns)
M100 = 12.7mm (lethal heritage) -Phawk
Johnston minigun = 20mm (temptation by war) Ranger VV1 -described as caseless (ch 14)
Scattergun = 20mm (temptation by war) DI Schmitt
22mm Gatling = 22mm (TRO 3075) JES 1 entry
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Class 2 Autocannons
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Whirlwind-L = 32mm (Binding force) BlackJack BJ-1
Whirlwind-L = 30mm (Threads of ambition) Blackjack BJ-1
SarLon = 30mm (TRO 3026) Warrior VTOL
Thor RAC-2 = 40mm (TRO 3058) Warrior VTOL
Mydron Model D-rf (Ultra) = 20mm (Imminent Crisis) Jagermech III
Mydron Model D = 30mm (Threads of ambition) Jagermech
Defiance Shredder LBX = 20mm (Fortress republic) -Catapult
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Class 5 Autocannons
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GM Nova 5 Ultra = 50mm (Binding force) -cataphract
GM Nova 5 Ultra = 40mm (Illusions of victory) -Cataphract
GM Whirlwind = 120mm (Thunder ridge & Wolves on the border) -Marauder
GM Whirlwind = 50mm (killing field) -Marauder
Armstrong J11 = 80mm or 90mm (Thunder ridge, same book) -Shadow Hawk
Imperator-A = 80mm (Price of Glory) -Riflemen
Whirlwind = 60mm (Price of glory) -Wolverine
Whirlwind = 90mm (Wolves on the border) -Wolverine
Imperator Ultra AC-5 = 80mm (Storms of fate) -Vulcan & Daikyu
Armstrong AC-5 = 50mm (Double blind) -Clint
Armstrong AC-5 = 105mm (TRO 3075) -Merkava Hvy Tank
Pontiac Light = 40mm (Illusions of victory) -Striker mech
Snake killer LAC-5 = 60mm (Battlecorps) -Shadowhawk-9D
Mydron Model RC RAC5 = 50mm (A call to arms & fortress republic) -Legionnaire & Rifleman
Mydron Tornado RAC5 = 50mm (By Temptations and By War) -DI Schmitt
Defiance type J AC-5 = 75mm (Heir to the dragon) -Zeus 6S
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Class 10 Autocannons
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Luxor-D = 80mm (Price of glory, Ghost of winter) -centurion
Mydron Excel UAC = 80mm (Patriots and tyrants) -Enforcer
Mydron Excel LBX = 80mm (Patriots and styrene) -Dragon Fire
Mydron Excel LBX = 80mm (Illusions of victory) -Cataphract
Defiance Disintegrator?= 100mm (end game) -Banshee
Mydron Model B = 80mm (Flash point) -Bushwacker
Federated AC-10 = 80mm (Flash point) -Enforcer
Imperator Code Red = 100mm (Flashpoint) -Challenger MBT
KaliYama = 80mm (Illusions of victory) -Orion
Imperator Code Red = 80mm (Illusions of victory) -Emperor
Imperator-B = 80mm (Warrior en Guard) Urbanmech (implied to be smiler in caliber as the Riflemen)
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Class 20 Autocannons
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Death Giver = 100mm (Heir to the dragon) -Atlas
Pontiac 100 = 100mm (Heir to the dragon) -Victor
Armstrong = 120mm (binding force) -Von Luckner MBT
Chemjet = 185mm (TRO 3026) -Demolisher I tank
Crusher SH = 150mm (TRO 3026) -Hetzer Assault gun (or 120mm Threads of ambition)
Defiance Thunder Ultra = 120mm (Patriots and Tyrants) -Blitzkrieg
Defiance Disintegrator LBX = 120mm (Patriots and Tyrants) -Barghest -Illusions of victory & The Dying time as well
Kali Yama Big Bore = 120mm (Threads of ambition) -Thunder
Tomodzuru = 180mm (Era Report 3052) -Hunchback
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Unknown types
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Jagermech "500mm" AC (Double blind)
Mackie 5S AC-5 = 110mm (Birth of a King scenario)
Jagermech 7F RAC-5 = 80mm (End Game) -can not find what model these are, but the two known RAC-5s are said to be 50mm...
Templar omni, Grayson config AC-5 = 40mm (Imminent Crisis)
Blackjack omni LBX-10 = 80mm (Binding force)


Clan (TRO 3060 for the most part)
Type 9 UAC 10 = 75mm
Type 10 UAC 20 = 120mm (Fortress republic) SM1 Tank Destroyer
Type 20 UAC 20 = 200mm (Battlecorps, Fire Scorpion 3 entry)
Type 25 UAC 2 = 50mm
Type 31 UAC 5 = 40mm
Type Cov LBX-10 = 75mm (their are two sizes, the Mars says it's 150mm, but the Ishtar says 75mm)
Type COVR-X LBX-5 =40mm

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Well here's a few notes on artillery, and just how big are they.

At 30 metric tons the Long tom is not that far off from historical guns of it's size.
Sense a Long tom uses 200 kilograms per shot a Long tom is easily in the 9 to 10 inch range (228 to 254mm). As 203mm guns fired ~105kg (land based it's 90kgs naval it's ~120kgs) shells, so 203mm guns are a bit to light.

The M1 240mm (9.45in) Super Heavy Howitzer of WW2 (and Korea) fame, was a massive 29.35 metric tons and fired 160kg shells.
The German 24cm H39 siege howitzer was 27 metric tons and fired a smiler shell. -Just add ~40kg for propellant and theirs your 200kg shot.

For "Snipers" it's 100kg shot puts it the range of 170mm guns like the 17cm K18, M107 SPH and the 180mm S-23. The weight is not to far off as well at 20 tons (the K18 is 17 tons (interestingly it's travel weight was 23 metric tons), the M107 is a SPH so no real numbers on the gun weight, but the soviet S-23 was 21 metric tons.)

This leaves the Thumper, at 50kgs per round and 15 metric tons in weight. It's shell weight is close to 130mm but guns of that size are half the weight. Their are 15cm guns in the 15 ton range, but the shells are ~45ish kg in weight, but I supose the shells could be a bit lighter than what we use...

Arrow 4s are well short range tactical missiles. Though I have not found any real good analogs in a smiler weight range.

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Missiles.
Missiles are a bit hard to get a Idea of how powerful they are, so I can only give some basics, in the second book of the warriors of Kerensky series, Victor and crew are in a wolf dragoons meeting hall, when they find a 3kg block of explosives under the table, well they describe the explosives as capable of demolishing the entire level of the building they where in. On page eight of the old house Laio book it mentions nuclear hand grenades (this is also mentioned in Jihad Terra book), though no info if these weapons are still around however. If B-tech can make "hand grenade" sized "nukes", I wonder what they could do with regular explosives (multiple "nuke grenades" where described as destroying three city blocks, in the Laio book).
Also IIRC their are a few times when Elemental's get hit by some LRMs or SRMs and they go flying, dead or not...

An LRM is a 8.33kg "semi-guided" missile, likely optical guided (if LRMs are not guided then why don't they have a -1 to hit like MRMs and Rockets, which attribute the -1 due to the lack of guidance systems), though its a limited guidance package at best in any case (after all LRMs are cheap very cheap, at only 250 C-bills per round (less than 1,300 USD)). At 8.33kg a LRM is 1.6kg heavier than a 105mm RPG-29 round (6.7kg) or 1.2kg heavier than the MILAN 3 missile (7.1kg). SRMs are 10kg, and like LRMs are "semi-guided", at 10kgs their 1.8kgs less than a Javelin Anti-tank missile (which is 11.8kg, thats the missile, the other gear adds more weight).

MRMs are 4.166kg in weight which are comparable in weight to LAWs and other "RPGs", and are effectively dumb fire rounds, due to a lack of built in guidance systems. And Clan ATMs are 16.66kg (on the lighter end of the heavier "man" portable ATGMs like the TOW).

In essence a SRM 6 is firing a half a dozen Javelin analogs in a volley, a LRM 20 is firing 20 RPG-29 or MILAN analogs and MRM 40s are firing 40 LAWs at a time.

I orginaly posted in a later post but im placing this here as it goes along with this subject...Thunderbolt missile, though as each missile differs in size depending on the damage value (T-bolt 5 is 83kg, T-bolt 10 = 166kg, T-bolt 15 = 250kg and the T-bolt 20 is 333kg) The 15 and 20 are roughly comparable to the AIM-65 Maverick (which is 210-300kg, depending on the model), though the lighter ones have no real counter parts (a likely choice for the T-bolt 5 being the Hellfire, however it's only 50kg vs 83kg for the T-bolt -or the T-bolt is 60% heavier (compared to the T-bolt 20s being only 10% heavier than the heaviest Maverick)). I remembered this as I was looking at the (new) TRO 3085 entry on the DCMS new missile mech the Orochi (an "upgraded" Longbow mech) which had a pair of Thunderbolt 20 launchers.

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Stealth

Battletech as a wide array of Stealth Technology's available.

Battlemech Stealth Armor
Invented in 3063 by the Capellan Confederation in an attempt to mimic the old Starleage Null sig armor. It is in it self a adaptation of Ferro-fibrous Armor, that is also a complex array of heat baffles, radar and Electromagnetic absorbent materials, though to be trully effective it requires an Active ECM component in the Guardian ECM pod (which is a broad spectrum device, covering a wide range of EM types). In the early 3070s Vehicles & Aircraft started to get their own counter part to mech Stealth armor (in the current RPG it works on IR and EM based sensors, and the GECM works on the EM side of things).

On a side note, Aerospace fighters with Stealth Armor do not get any stealth modifiers if the unit is expending thrust, This is due to the fact that their is no real stealth in space as it's almost impossible to hide the Exhaust from a Fusion torch (and Battletech drives are very very powerful). However in space if the unit is costing you do get the benefits of Stealth armor, even if you are firing large amounts of energy weapons (and all the heat they produce...) which provides an interesting thought but I'll come back to that later. Atmospheric operations get the full benefits of Stealth armor though.

Null Sig Armor (Starleage created in 2630 and went extent in 2790)
This is the Starleage counter part to the "modern" Capellan Stealth armor, it's a bit more advanced as it dose not require a GECM pod to be effective. This armor works with the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield (CLPS).

Chameleon Light Polarization Shield (Starleage created in 2630 and went extent in 2790)
This Armor is a Optical based Stealth System, in fact current B-tech mimetic armors are a bit more advanced than this device. The CLPS is a Series of Computers and cameras tied into a special pigment that allow it to shift colors based on the terrain the mech is found in. While it dose not make the mech truly invisible it dose reduce it's outlines at range.

Void Sig Armor (introduced in the 3070s by the Word of Blake)
This is a "upgrade" of sorts to the older Null Sig and Chameleon LPS system, It's basically a full up mech scale Mimetic Armor making the mech almost invisible to optical systems, and with the "required" ECM gear almost invisible to IR and Electromagnetic based sensors as well. However the faster the unit goes the less effective the mimetic armor is. And at speeds above 54kph it hardly works at all.

Battle Armor Stealth Armors
Stealth Armor
Comes in a few configurations of different strength and ability's (as well as weight and cost). Like Mech Armor It works on IR and EM based suppression techniques. However unlike Mech Scale Stealth armor, Battle Armor stealth also includes some optical based stealthing.

BA Mimetic Armor, this actually comes in two flavors on is Armor based and the other is a add on package not tied to the armor, both work the same, by using a series of cameras, computers and special pigments to change the color of the units "skin" thus blending in with the back ground, but like with it's larger scale counter part(s) the faster the unit goes the less effect it has. The add on package is not quite as good as the Full up Mimetic armor but it dose work with regular BA Stealth Armor (though the full up Mimetic dose have some EM and IR stealth ability's -but not on the same level as the other kinds).

Also Regular Infantry can get IR, EM and Optical based Stealth suits (and in any combination), though these are more often seen in spec ops forces than line infantry.

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Now for that interesting though I mentioned earlier.

B-tech it seems has Decent IR stealthing even on basic units, after all a battlemech standing still at rest has a smiler IR reading as a infantry platoon of some 30 guys, B-tech Stealth armor also seems to ignore the effects of weapons heat, even in space, though with the drive lit up the stealth in space dose not work (considering just how much energy b-tech energy weapons use...)
And the fact that when B-tech dose use IR missile they only work on units that are over heating.

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In 1999 1 C-bill was equal to 3 USD (3rd ed of the RPG) and that was set in 3062
in 1991 it was 5 USD per C-bill (3052 -2nd ed RPG)
in 1986 it was 5 USD per C-bill (3025 -1st ed RPG)

If we swap out the 1999 USD with to the values of 2009 then a C-bill is worth 3.86 USD

The New house books actually give out yearly salaries by social class (well biweekly really -assuming 52 weeks per year)
The numbers are dependent on where you live, and range from highest to lowest, for example the Davion high assumes you live on worlds like the golden five, or other such core worlds, the lower is if you are living on the back water worlds of the outback. The chart goes much higher but the rank of Baronet is the highest a regular person can reach, though that would be hard (like a commoner foiling a coup and rescuing the heir apparent from certain death at the same time, could conceivable be granted the title of Baronet)
These numbers are all for 3067 however.

House Davion
Minimum wage 4,060 to 2,054 C-bills
Lower 13,634 to 7,575 C-bills
Middle 18,242 to 11,265 C-bills
Upper 73,890 to 34,960 C-bills
Knight 101,966 to 42,728 C-bills
Baronet 215,261 to 106,390 C-bills

House Marik
Minimum 4,071 to 2,757 C-bills
Lower 15,519 to 12,906 C-bills
Middle 20,807 to 18,139 C-bills
Upper 83,486 to 71,877 C-bills
Knight 123,191 to 97,812 C-bills
Marquis 251,076 to 201,737 C-bills (I do not think it's smiler to the other "ranks" but it's the next rung up on the chart)

House Steiner
Minimum 3,922 to 3,401 C-bills
Lower 11,905 to 10,504 C-bills
Middle 18,541 to 16,179 C-bills
Upper 72,307 to 63,755 C-bills
Knight 98,181 to 84,147 C-bills
Baronet 196,338 to 168,293 C-bills

As for the other major houses well their not out yet, so no numbers their, but here's some of the minor houses.
Taurian Concordat
Minimum 1,201 to 1,030 C-bills
Lower 3,508 to 3,236 C-bills
Middle 5,356 to 4,940 C-bills
Upper 20,475 to 17,550 C-bills
Baronet 29,627 to 24,596 C-bills

Magistracy of Canopus
Minimum 1,147 to 983 C-bills
Lower 3,375 to 3,112 C-bills
Middle 5,222 to 4,817 C-bills
Upper 20,694 to 17,737 C-bills
Baronet 29,214 to 24,253 C-bills

Outworlds Alliance
Minimum 710 to 608
Lower 2,062 to 1,902
Middle 3,214 to 2,964
Upper 12,613 to 10,811

Marian Hegemony
Minimum 574 to 492 C-bills
Lower 1,687 to 1,556 C-bills
Middle 2,625 to 2,421 C-bills
Upper 10,347 to 8,869 C-bills
Patrician 29,214 to 24,253 C-bills

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Ranges...

I mentioned this a bit earlier on but here's a little more on that.

B-tech ranges are hard to figure out, the rules are canon making the ranges canon. However they are very short range and do not make much sense, particularly when one considers the velocity these weapons are doing, and some other things (including a few rules that hit at other ranges), to say little about real world stuff...

Now Total Warfare says this about B-tech ranges

Quote

Total Warfare page 36-37 Weapons ranges provide another example. Players will quickly realize that the longest-range standard weapon in the game can only hit targets out to thirty hexes (900m) from the attacker. Real-world primary main battle tank weapons have an operational targeting ranges in excess of 4,000 meters. Because Battletech map sheets are only seventeen hexes long, requiring more than seven map sheets laid end to end, for a playing space greater than 12 feet in length. Not many people have that type of table space, nor would it provide players with any tactical maneuvering room. Anywhere a player might move a unit on the map, an attacker could hit that unit.
Finally, the abstractions of real world factors such as firing distances can enhance of the game universe. Battletech has always been about "in your face" combat which works best with closer ranges...

Clearly the ranges are an abstraction of reality, and reduced for game play purposes.

That said their are rules and some fluff that indicate B-tech weapons have a longer range than it seems.

Rules that indicate that the ranges are longer than what they seem
AA Shooting: Per the rules any weapon with a range of 16 can reach an altitude of 8 when dealing with aircraft, this is between 1,000 and 2,000 meters. This means that weapons like the PPC can hit things that is 2,000 meters away, almost 4 times it's supposed ground range of 540m. Another related rule is with elevations, Battletech dose not factor the height a unit may be at for ground units. An elevation is only 6m tall (this is where one gets the fact that mechs are roughly 12m tall from as a mech can hide behind a elevation two hill -i.e. a 12m tall hill), thus a unit at elevation zero can attack a unit two hexes away with machineguns even though the target is standing on a Elevation 100 hex... That's over 600m by the way.
Extreme range: Found in Tactical ops this rule allows units to hit targets out past "long" range, it is effectively twice it's medium range scale (a medium laser has a max medium range of six hexes (180m), thus it's max Extreme range is 12 hexes -360m).
Line of sight range: This a further expansion of weapons range, and picks up where Extreme range ends. It's has no defined range limit, effectively saying if you can see it you can try to shot it, no mater how big the playing area is. Meaning anything a unit can see can be shot at, now naturally the limit here is at the horizon which would be the limit of a units line of sight, and for a mech thats some 12km away (if facing another mech it's some 24km away...). This allows for some reasonably impressive ranges. Though not all weapons can use this range scale (energy requires a range of at lest seven hexes, and ballistic weapons require at lest 13 hexes to use LOS rules).
Ground units in space rules Ground units in space suck, but they can be used here, but their only allowed to target units in their own hex. This results in a "effective" range of between 9 and 18 kilometers (depending on where you view the firing unit is in that hex, at the center? Or is it at an edge firing to the other side...).

Fighter and Capital scale rules.
A Dropship or other Aerospace unit on the ground have a range no different than a ground vehicle, but once it lifts off thy quickly gain a lot longer range, fighter scale uses 500 meter long hexes (and the same 10 second turns as on the ground) this results in many weapon to have decent ranges, up to 13-22 kilometers. Capital scale has truly impressive ranges at lest for regular weapons the max range for regular weapons in capital scale is 25 hexes (it uses a some what different range system where all weapons have a standard range bracket) thats 450 kilometers with each hex being 18km in size. Though most weapons do not have that range, the ranges are split in to groups, some reaching out to short range (108km -AC-20s, small lasers, ect) medium range (216km, large lasers, PPCs), long range (360km, Gauss rifles, LRMs) and Extreme range (450km, Clan ER large lasers, and IS light Gauss rifles). Further more their is little difference between a Large Laser on a Fighter and one on a mech, in fact some have the same brand names.

Infantry Weapons
In the RPG, infantry weapons have ranges listed, when not coordinating their fire on armored targets, a infantry weapon has a considerably longer range. For instance a Mauser IIC laser rifle has a effective range of 1,400 meters, and Infantry LRMs with a 2.1km range. This is considerably longer than their vehicle scale counter parts. It is highly odd for infantry weapons to out range the weapons on a tank.

An indirect method of figuring out ranges
In Tactical operations a weapon called the Rifle cannon (fluffed as having smothbore versions) is fluffed as being not to dissimilar from weapons that we are currently using. These weapons where developed for some 300 years before the advent of the Autocannon in 2250 (which is why it's not a very smart idea to make the Heavy the equivalent to a 120mm gun). If these weapons are smiler to today's weapons and as they have a range smiler to B-tech weapons then one could use them to get an idea of how much the ranges have been reduced for game play. The Light Rifle has a range of 12 hexes, the Heavy 18 hexes with real life targeting ranges between 3,000 and 5,000 meters this results in a factor of 5.5 and 14 times.

And their are a few references in the novels, but most of the time they just use the ranges used in game, or smiler to them.

In short, Fighter scale, line of sight and ground units in space rules, all seem to indicate a effective range of 9 to 18km for B-tech ground units, which would indicate a ~16x decrees in range.

Their is a few other options however if one wants to use them.
The AA ranges is roughly 4.166 times longer than their ground range, applying this a large laser with Extreme range rules would have a range of roughly 2,500 meters, an AC-20 1,500m, a Gauss Rifle 3,500m and so on.

Using the Rifle cannon method, one can get a wide range of values between 5.5 and 14 times (close to the fighter, LOS, space numbers) but lets use a 10x factor (about in the middle of two values) this is a simple one, just simply add a zero to all the ranges used in game. As such a AC-20 (with Extreme range rules) would have a range of 3,600m, a Large laser 6,000m and the Gauss Rifle 8,400m.

Then theirs capital scale, and it's ranges...

Edited by Nebfer, 14 November 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[Nebfer]

Part II

Todays topic is largely on Aerospace but first here's a note of ground speed.

Ground units speed.
Each movement point on the ground is equal to 10.8kph (6.71mph).
Typically a mech/unit is noted with a Walking speed and a "Running" speed, if it has TSM or MASC it would be noted in as well, however this is not the over all top speed of a mech or ground vehicle. Ground based vehicles (units other than mechs, VTOLs, WIGEs and infantry, but includes Tracked, Wheeled and hovercraft) get a +1 to their movement speed if they due their entire turn on a paved hex, basically a road speed if you will. As such a 3/5 tracked tank if it used this ability would be able to move 3/6 for that turn (this is added on top of MASC/TSM or other modifiers). However this is still not their top speed. Even MASC or TSM is not the top speed of a ground unit. All units have a "Sprinting/Overdrive" speed this is effectively the same as MASC/TSM (2x walking/cruising speed) and in fact can be used with MASC or TSM at the same time for a 2.5x "walking" modifier. Yet their is still one more item that improves speed. This is a supercharger, in the entry for it in Tactical ops (it's also in older manuals like Max tech) fluff's it as nothing more than an engine override (though I wonder why it has to be so heavy for a simple device or lack there of... Though the device dose have to work with a wide array of engines with different capability's.) This device also works Stacks with TSM/MASC and Sprinting rules, as such you can get a 3x walking modifier. (a walk of 5 with all three options active will result in a top speed of 15 hexes per turn). However their are down sides, if a unit sprints it can not make any attacks that turn and is easier to hit as well (pilot concentrating on moving not attacking or evading).

In short even a 3/5 100ton Tracked tank can reach a top speed of 75.6kph on a road and sprinting (compared to an M1 Abrams 67kph (42mph) road speed, at lest while governed...), At the same time even a 95 ton Clan Executioner Omnimech can reach a top speed of 108kph with it's MASC engaged and sprinting. And a Locust 6M the fastest cannon mech moving 14/21(28) with it's MASC engaged, with sprinting it can movie a whopping 35 hexes (1,050m) in 10 seconds for a speed of 378kph! A battlemech is quite mobile indeed.

And now to some Aerospace matters, just what can these guys do?

Each Thrust point is equal to .5Gs (4.9m/s) of acceleration As such a 10/15 fighter can accelerate at up to 7.5Gs, Now Battletech dose not have anti-gravity and it's related gear. So B-tech uses G-suits to stem the crushing G-forces and keep the pilot(s) from blacking out, and with front to back forces, IS suits can keep a pilot going for a few minutes at 10.5Gs (or 11.5Gs for Clan) Though their head to toe ability is interesting. According to the rules a B-tech fighter (with the low altitude rules, but the high altitude rules the result is smiler) can complete a 360 degree turn in roughly 3,000 meters, even at speeds above 2,160kph (over mach 1.7), Now in order to do this the aircraft would have to bank almost 90 degrees but this results in G forces of 20 to 30Gs! Gee thats quite the turn, Real life fighters have difficulty doing more than 9G turns with out the pilot blacking out. Yet battletech it seems has no issue with this kind of performance. Though I would like to know how this factors in with the known limitations of the airframes when doing high G powered turns (if you use "overthrust" and turn you may damage the airframe, though the fighter is already doing turns that exceed the thrust rating issue...)

To better get an understanding what B-tech fighters can do here's some non cannon specs, now what I mean by not cannon is that I made this chart The guys make B-tech did not make this, but all the info displayed in this chart comes from or is derived from cannon sources.

Name: PGD-Y3 Poignard
Date in service: 3083
Operator: Marik-Stewart Commonwealth, Republic of the sphere
Empty Weight: 30 tons
Mass: 35 tons
Max Take off weight: 42 tons
Power plant: 245 XL Fusion rated at 2402.62kN
Acceleration: 7Gs (9/14)
Climb Rate: 1,200m/s
Service Celing: Unlimited
Max Low altitude speed (0-17km): 3,240kph -Mach 3.06
Max High altitude speed (+90km): 16,200kph -Mach 16.7
Fuel load: 4 tons + 3.5 tons external
Max Ferry Range: 11,520km (21,600km with droptanks)
Max Interplanetary/Space range: 1,587,600 km
Max Endurance: 35 to 320 min (75 to 600 min with droptanks)
Armor mass: 10 tons Heavy Ferro-Fiborus
External ordnance: 7 tons
Radar Range: 10,000km (in space)
Optical Tracking: 2,500km (in space)
Weapons: 1x Imperator Napoleon Light AC/5 w/1t ammo, 1x Martell Small Pulse Laser, 4x Magna Mk VI ER Medium Lasers


I got the idea from looking at the aircraft pages at Wikipedia and wondering if I could do the same with battletech units, well it turns out you can, it's surprising as to the amount of info one can get by looking at the unit's stats, and the rules.

This is a newer aircraft both in universe and real life as it just came out a few weeks ago in TRO 3085. It has a operating weight of 35 tons, with an empty weight (no fuel or ammo) of just 30 tons, It can carry 7 tons in external payloads, it can accelerate at 7Gs taken from the units movement capability's, as it has a thrust of 9/14, the power in newtons comes from the weight of the aircraft and it's acceleration rate, the climb rate comes from the fact that it takes two thrust points to change altitudes, and in high altitude thats 18km, each and the fact a turn is 60 seconds at that level. It's Service Celing is unlimited due to the fact that it can go into space (in fact it's a space plane first atmospheric fighter second). The low altitude speed is taken from the fact that at low altitude a hex is 500m across and a turn is 10 seconds, and that a aircraft can move as fast as twice it's safe thrust (in this case it can move a maximum 18 hexes a turn or 9km in 10 seconds, the MACH number is for 20,000m). The high altitude numbers have limits at various altitudes and is over all restricted to a max movement of 15 hexes per turn, or it's 2x safe thrust value (which ever comes first). Here a hex is 18km in size and a turn 60 seconds, resulting in a minimum movement of 300m/s (1,080kph). An interesting quirk, the high altitude rules for flying near the ground restrict the fighter to a movement of two hexes per turn (2,060kph) but as we can see with the low altitude rules it's capable of 50% more than that (note in space it self their is no speed restrictions). Though in a dark age novel a group of Clan ASF fly a low altitude at hypersonic speeds (low enough to brake windows, and I saw the Mythbuster episode on that subject...).
The Fuel load is stated in record sheets, the external is the max fuel you can put in external fuel pods (this aircraft can carry 7 fuel tanks that hold 500kg of fuel each, or 7x 1,000kg bombs...). The Ferry Range is based on it's economical fuel use rate/speed (in this case spending 1 fuel point per turn which results in a movement of two hexes, for a flight time of 320 turns -or minutes in this case and a velocity of 2,160kph, or how far can you go in 5.33 hours at a speed of 2,160kph?). The Interplanetary/Space range is how far it can go on a single accell/decell burn with max fuel and fuel tanks and dose not factor in costing (though it should be notes a more proper notation should be Delta V but i'm not to good at working with that, but needless to say all ASF can reach the moon in less than 6 hours). Armor mass is stated in the units TRO, paylod is from the rules, Radar and Optical tracking ranges is from Strategic ops (the numbers are for tracking, targiting is 1/10th the numbers listed). Weapons is also listed in the units own TRO entry. Note Each thrust point is effectively 300m/s of Delta V, as such the typical 5 ton fuel tank for an ASF is equal to 120 km/s of Delta V, for perspective the Delta V used in the Apollo moon missions is around 36km/s IIRC.

A note on their Helmets
Fighter pilots in general use Helmet mounted HUDs (well in battletech), basically take the HUD on a Aircraft and put that display on your helmet, so where ever you look you will have your primary flight info, and info on your friends (like their damage and fuel remaining) and even status of your opponents (like what kind of damage he's taken). Now the old Starleage used Holographic Virtual reality displays, basically you put the helmet on, and you where flying with out a fighter, or at lest thats what it felt like (in short if your flying 100m off the ground and you looked down you would not see the cockpit floor but the terrain of the ground 100m below you.) At lest some of the Clans have this type of helmet display, and the Free Worlds league also have this as well. Conventional fighters also use the full helmet mounted HUD like most ASF due. Now the idea is not new, aspects of it have been in use for years. However the first fighter that I know of to use a full up helmet HUD is the yet to enter production F-35 Lightning II. Battlemechs for the most part use the older fixed style HUD though they may have elements of the helmet HUDs.

What my last post means is this, if a F-22 Raptor gets into a fight with a PGD-Y3 Poignard, the Raptor is toast. The Poignard can fly as high as it wants, the Raptor tops out at about 20,000m, The Raptor can climb at a rate of around 300m/s the Poignard has 4 times that. In close the Raptor can accelerate at 1.2Gs, the Poignard can do 7Gs, speed wise the Raptor can reach a speed of around 2,500kph, The Poignard can at low altitude do 3,240kph (game wise, and can climb to higher altitudes and go much faster). With a pair of droptanks a Raptor has a range of about 3,000km, the Poignard on the other had with droptanks has a range of over 21,000km (as such the Poignard can wait it out if need be), in a turn a Raptor can pull 9G turns, the Poignard can do 25+ and the Poignard has 10 tons of armor the Raptor has none. Oh did I mention that all ASF have VTOL capability?

The Raptor dose have Stealth going for it, though it's a passive stealth, and is optimized for targets below it not above it. Then it may have to contend with B-tech sensors. Also Real life missiles may have more range but their mostly configured as Blast fragmentation and largely useless on armor.

B-tech sensors are an unknown here, we know what the can do in space, but their atmospheric capability is unknown, but we do know that an ASF can produce a lot of energy from it's engines as such it's possible that B-tech radars can just overpower the passive stealth on the raptor, or it may work on a different frequency that is less affected by the raptors stealth. Or it may be invisible to a B-tech ASFs Radar.

=======================================================================================
This is what I got from reading the universe section in the new RPG (A Time of War). This is describing how the "Universal Socio-Industrial Level Reference Table" works and describes the values used, Basically the "USILR" describes the development of a world. (see the new house books, the new RPG and most books that have planetary info listed, starting with the Fed com civil war book). It brake down a worlds development into five categories and each of these into five levels, rated with a letter, With the Letter A being the highest and F the lowest.
The catagorys being, Technology Development, Industrial Development, Industrial Output, Raw Material Dependence and Agricultural Dependence.

Technology
Tech A Worlds (like the Fed Suns Golden Five, house capitals and other Core worlds)
- Life expectancy is 100 to 120 years, often with retirement at 90 or 100 years
- Wide spreed computer use and access to data networks
- an endless sea of electronic media
- High degrees of literacy (and computer usability)
- wide spreed use of advanced communications
- Advanced Fuel cell and battery powered cars, with autopilots, fusion powered cars are common.
- effective mass transit, large numbers of supersonic aircraft
- Wide spread fusion power and renewable energy sources
- Largely pollution free environment (unless the local government dose not care...)

Tech B & C worlds (which make up a good chunk of a houses worlds)
- Life expectancy's of 90 to 100 years, though partly due to enhancements made during the starleage... (humans are just more healthier than they where before.)
- wide spreed computer use but are less capable and larger than Tech As.
- Tech is over all less capable than Tech A
- Fusion powered cars are uncommon, with fuel cell and ICE being common (limited production capability's of vehicle grade fusion engines is one thing)
- Cost of living is higher
- Medical tech is less advanced and more limited but still good for the most part
- in some houses a lack of trained specialists exist at this level
- Communications are more limited, internet service is mostly fixed (lack of wireless internet), communications is mostly by phones, Tri-vid seems to be less common. Most of the Wireless networks is by cellphones. And thousands of interactive vid channels instead of an endless sea...

Worlds of Tech level D have felt the devastation of the Succession wars the hardest.
- Life expectancy is in the 80s, again partly due to the enhancements made during the Starleage (Note: Real life it's ~68 years average.)
- Lack of microelectronics industry's
- may have crude fusion plants
- Medical is lacking, with a severe shortage of trained medical personnel (other fields also have this issue)
- Tri vid TVs and phones are rare often one per hamlet though land lines are common.
- Computers and other microelectronics are primitive and sluggish (compared to Tech B & C) and incompatible with more advanced gear.
- Road and air transport is primitive, animal transport is common (I suppose that's true even today...)
- it's not a lack of technology insomuch as continued effects of destroyed tech (Wars) that's part of the issue here (as well as a lack of knowledge), though 20th and 21st century Terra made a fine living at this level... and the Terran alliance started an empire with it.

Tech F worlds, are few and far between
- Most are worlds settled by anti-tech populations, or have truly collapsed.
- 19th century is a good example of the available techs
- limited communications capabilities, as well as transportation
- radios and microwave ovens are treated with respect and sometimes worshiped (WoB recruited from these worlds)...
- Though some higher learning's are available and give these populations a leg up from real 19th century citizens (such as enginnering and human physiology).

--------------------------------------------------

Heavy industry worlds (industry A)
-vast availability to civilian manufacturing
-large number of shopping malls, online shopping...
-extensive transportation networks
-well built homes, apartment blocks and or arcologies
-environmental issues are not a major factor...

Industrial levels B & C
the typical worlds
-less capability in industry, some difficulty in launching large projects.
-less built up transportation services, mass transit being the norm (rather than personnel vehicles).
-smaller housing, less sophisticated

underdeveloped worlds Tech D
-large rifts in technological and industrial availability -smiler to 20th century Terra, a small population lives comfortably where as the majority dose not.
-spotty maintenance on infrastructure, in some cases crumbling in disrepair. crime is rampant, luxury goods are mostly imports and rare.
-food and water production is more labor intensive.

Level F
-world has basically fallen into disrepair "bombed back into the stone age" Labor is mostly manual or animal based.

Resources
Levels C, D & F, rarely import much (by weight) except rare materials (tungsten, platinum, indium and such) and are typically used in amounts small enough that the limited imports are useful. For the most part these worlds spend a lot of resources and effort to mine these items from less ideal sources (asteroid mining, ores with low concentrations & deep and vast underground mines).

-----------
Food & Water
Most worlds can feed and provide water to their inhabited with out significant imports, how much effort this requires depends on the "level".

Garden Worlds (Levels A &
Food and water production is easy and widely abundant, enough so that it can export some to other worlds. Agricultural industry is highly advanced and employs a relatively small amount of the population (i.e. less than .5%).

Average worlds (Levels C & D)
often have something that limits food or water production, be it tainted water (natural or man made), strange seasons, tainted soil (again natural or man made) and a host of other environmental issues.
These worlds put a larger portion of the population to work on agricultural needs than "Garden worlds" of the same technological sophistication. Food is often grown in sealed green houses isolated from the tainted water, soil or environmental conditions that would limit farm land to small areas. Skyscraper farms are also seen but are more expensive to build and operate.

As the level goes down food types become more limited as well, meat becomes more sparse and often limited to once a week or holidays, on worlds with tech level D menus are even more limited (to items like Rice, soya, algae and mycoprotein (Fungi)) and the only meats found are "vat" produced or "factory farms" and even then it's uncommon. luxury foods are often the only imports to these worlds. Again most worlds do not rely on imports to feed their populations (though it may import some to help make up for shortfalls or to provide some luxury foods).

Clean water is limited (though water it self may be common) With large amounts of purification systems required. Water conservation and recycling are also common. Fountains are often seen as status symbols and (Private) swimming pools are rare.

Suboptimal worlds (Level F and the extreme end of D)
These worlds are rare, and often require vast amount of resources to feed it's population, they make extensive use of hydroponics and smiler systems, even from orbiting satellites. But often little (by mass) is imported.

========================================================================================
Todays topic is on why are things so heavy?

This is not directly canon, but dose help explain the weights of various components

For thoughs who have built units before, you start to notice that a lot of components are rather heavy, like 14 ton autocannon 20s, five ton targeting computers and so on and so forth. This is due to the fact that, theirs a lot of components in that item that are taking up weight but are not listed. For a Gun you would have a gun barrel, recoil slide & recoil gear, breach block, Aiming systems, targeting systems, ammo feeds, reloading gear, power feeds, heat sinks and hook ups for the unit wide system, sensors, electronics, universal mounting hardware (as any item can be equipped on almost any unit you want) and perhaps some armor (how else do you explain some units like the hunchback having the same armor values even though one side has more area to cover).

Items like the Targeting computer, well Tech manual dose mention this (so this bit is at lest canon). It's not just a "five" ton computer, but it's also has (additional) recoil compensators to reduce recoil and improved Gyro Stabilizers to reduce the units own movements so that the weapon can be layed on the target easier and more accurately.

C3 Computers, First off most units already have basic C3 gear on them, theirs a fair number of examples of mechs sharing data between them (like video) even though the unit has no "C3 gear". That said A C3 Slave would install extra computers, "heat sinks" (for the gear), transmitters and universal mounting brackets. A C3 Master would have lodes more computers (as it's dealing with 4 mechs worth of data), heat sinks to cool off these computers, built in TAG gear and Transmitters to send this data to it's network (and not to mention the universal mounting brackets that allow it to be installed on just about anything).

Engines, well for many units B-tech engines are heavy, but why? What if their not just an engine but include the units Drive systems as well. For instants take a tracked vehicle, It's Engine weight might not contain just the weight of the engine but also, Tracks, road wheels, suspension, fuel tank (well we know about that one already -see strat ops), transmission, final drive and other items. After all a units chassis never gets bigger or heavier the faster it gets, the engine dose. As the only other real place to put this stuff is in the chassis weight, but thats only 5-10% of the units weight, and that's not a hole lot of mass for all of this stuff, Tracks I know can weight as much as 9% of the vehicles weight (Tiger I tracks weighed 5,700kg, M1 Abrams are 4,900 to 5,300kg in weight -depending on the type, Both vehicles weight ~63 tons). but then what dose the Chassis do? Well the Chassis would be the frame where where all the components get bolted on to and the necessary bracing to mount them as well. Though interestingly one area where B-tech engines are often in fact "lighter" than their real world counter parts is with Aircraft engines. Theirs a book called the Technology of Tanks by Richard M. Ogorkiewicz, in it it brakes down a tank by component mass, a bit dated (1990) but in general a Real life tank can brake down to... Armor ~45-57%, Engine, Trans & Final Drive ~12%, Suspention and tracks 20-23%, weapons 3-7%. A look at various B-tech tanks, most have an engine that is 30-40% of their mass, which would be roughly what real life tanks spend on their automotive components.

========================================================================

B-tech Electronics

I would have to admit i'm not very knowledgeable on this aspect, but here's a few things I have learned.

Memory capacity
Hand book house Steiner (the 3025 book)

Mentions that a company called Dobless Information Services (specializing in data storage) has (as of 3025) data centers on 150 worlds (it's the defacto data storage center of the Lyran commonwealth) and each of it's computers had the capacity of over 100 billion books. Well looking up how much hard drive space it would take to store 100 billion books. I come up with the following

1 Petabyte: Over one billion books.
http://graphicsmagic...ataprefixes.htm
-----------------------
2 Petabytes: All U. S. academic research libraries
http://www.jamesshug...ek1/how_big.htm
------------------------
1 Petabyte: could hold approximately 20 million 4-door filing cabinets full of text. It could hold 500 billion pages of standard printed text.
http://www.whatsabyte.com/

So it would seem that the Lyrans have a good number of computers that have the capacity of over 100 Petabytes.
I know you can get petabyte sized storage capacity's with today's tech (the size of a good sized file cabinet IIRC), but I do not know of any ordinary computers that have that kind of capacity (out side of some supercomputers).

Terabytes are also not uncommon, when Vandervahn Chistu was reviewing Clan wolf movements in Bred for War he had terrabytes of info, also David Lear at one point gave Devlin Stone several Terabytes of AFFS data meant for a Training battalion in 3028 (see Strategic ops for this). Also HPGs also send Terabyte sized packets (War of 3039 source book).
----------------
For portable data storage B-tech uses a data chip that is very smiler to what we would call a thumb drive.
The exact capacity's is unknown but it's likely very's from manufacture to manufacture but here's a few noted samples
The RPG says that a holovid chip can store 2 hours of hovid video (holovid = holographic media =3d film)
In Assumption of Risk they mention that a 5 min holovid can be 2 gigabytes in size. Thats about 25 gigabytes per hour. So the RPGs Holovid Chip has a capacity of about 50 Gigabytes (not to bad for a 10g, ~10 USD device (2 C-bills)).

In Tactics of Duty, Grayson brought with him several data chips filled with hundreds of gigabytes of operational data...
This can range from 10 or 20 gigabytes to well over 200 gigabytes per chip...

And for the real kicker, in Jihad hot spots Terra We have this little line...

Quote

MacKezy was one of two on the Precentor Martial’s staff assigned to catalogue and disseminate the information held within the DNRP’s hundred-yottabyte (YB) storage centers.

A Yottabyte is a billion Terrabytes, and the line suggests that their was more than one of these centers? Also further down it mentions that they had more than one of these facility's...
Now the Facility mentioned here is the main hub for the SDS network for Terra

The Processor was said to be a 250kg beast. And you have to wonder just how good the computer power has to be in order to use yottabyte levels of data....

Another thing on B-tech computers, B-tech can almost recreate Star Treks Holodecks.
High def holographic media: Check
Smell: Check
Tactile feed back: Check

Quote

HB House Steiner Appliances most familiar to the average Lyran range from micro-


or laser-wave ovens and sonic dish cleansers and showers, to
personal computers and vid-phones, to hyper-filtered water purifiers
and power cell rechargers for all manner of electric appliances. More
well-to-do families may claim micro-fusion generators, geo-thermal
climate control systems, smart-safe home security networks or even
immersive-environment home entertainment systems that can
approximate tactile and taste sensations and mix them with highresolution
holography and sound projection for a virtual-reality
experience of unparalleled accuracy.

Quote

HB House Marik Most video transmissions in the Free Worlds are vidtape, a holographic format whose origins date back centuries. Whether played on small


portable units or through stadium-sized broadcast suites, the core principles are the same, though quality varies considerably. Presentation can
be simple text (commonly known as a vidnovel) or offer an immersion experience in which the viewer sits inside the events and can shift perspective
as he or she sees fit. The ultimate expression of vidtape is the RHE (Recreational Hologram Environment), which allows the viewer to be an
active participant in the recording through interactive props and sophisticated computer modeling. RHEs of sports events and active pursuits
like climbing and dancing are popular across the League; recordings of military engagements and extreme sports make up another substantial
element of the market.

Quote

Test of Vengence CH9 Of course, that would not happen because this was a simulation. Yet still the signals and images registering in Jake's HUD were the same as if he were actually riding the hull of Lita's Mad Dog as it raced across the countryside at eighty-five kilometers per hour. In reality, the two warriors were on entirely different decks of the Ursa Major, separated by more than a hundred meters, but connected to the same computer-controlled simulation.


No matter how many times he ran these simulators— twice or three times daily since joining the 288th—the virtual reality they created remained almost entirely convincing, thanks to advanced Clan holography and biofeedback. Jake could hear the wind howling outside his helmet, and the Mad Dog's every footfall sent tremors through his armor. The 'Mech's pace was slowing to a walk now in preparation for his point's dismount.

---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Radios
Military Communicator
Weight: 100g
Range: 10km
Battery life: 20 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: secure channel capable, and can use a large number of frequency's
Notes: issued to most military personnel, quite often found built into an infantry mens helmet.

I have yet to see military radios with the same range/weight/battery life ability's, a few civilian models can come close or beat it in some areas but where not talking about civilian stuff...

Field Communicators
Weight: 1,000g
Range: 25km
Battery life: 20 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: as for the military communicator but adds the ability to monitor 6 channels at once, transmit video and send burst transmissions
Notes: Many military hand held inter-squad radios are of this weight, such as the AN/PRC-148 MBITER (~1kg, with a range of around 5km +- a few km, with a battery life of about 10 hours on a ~200g battery)

Long-Range Communications Kit
Weight: 5kg
Range: 50km (2,500km sat coms)
Battery life: 30 hours on a 3kg battery
Ability's: as above but can receive video, monitor 24 channels, sat coms capable, capable of sending laser and microwave transmissions
Notes: From what I can find this is the weight of current Man pack radios (such as the AN/PRC-117, ~7.5kg with battery) but with more than twice the effective range (the PRC-177 has a effective range of around 15 to 20km AFAIK).

Night Vision Gear
A bit difficult to get some info on but their is some.
A .5kg IR sensor can detect anything bigger than a lit match at 1km
Range finder binocculers
Weight: 500g
Battery life: 200 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: IR, man sized target at 1,000m, mechs at 10km, Starlight unknown range (but removes all night modifiers, and a number of weapons have a range of over 1km...)

Night Vision Scope
Weight: 450g
Battery life: 200 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: detects a man sized target at 1,000m, 10x zoom capable

Night Vision goggles
Weight: 600g
Battery life: 200 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: unknown range, but dose remove all night time modifiers (note longest range infantry weapon in the RPG is 2.5km...)

IR Scanner (thermal "rifle sights")
Weight: 400g
Battery life: 200 hours on a 20g battery
Ability's: smiler to the Range finder binocs, but out to a 5km range

Here's a real life night sight for comparison
AN/PVS 14 NVG
400g (I do not think that includes the battery)
B-life ~50h
400m detection man sized
Gen III

====================================================================

Well my last post I mentioned some infantry weapons and their ability's well here's a few more

Here's one example form Tactics of duty
CH 8 -Auto shotgun - Flechettes

Quote

A burst missed the table and struck nearby, sending tiny, spent gray projectiles skittering across the floor. Flechettes—three centimeters long, probably fired from an autoshotgun of some kind. Each was a tiny arrow made of lead, with fins at the end to stabilize their flight. Fired in clusters of twenty or more at a time from each shotgun shell, they were deadly at ranges of a hundred meters or less.
....
But the rest of the crowd was directly in the sniper's line of fire. People jammed into the seating area against Lori were dying horribly ... in bloody clumps. An overweight woman in a fashionably ornate tan and orange jumpsuit threw up her hands and sagged backward against the people behind her, her clothing and her chest shredded in a bloody spray; an older man gaped at the scarlet fountain where his arm had been; a teenage boy dropped at Lori's side, his face ripped up and back from his skull
...
At this distance—well over one hundred meters—he couldn't make out details, but he could see the telltale shadow of a man's silhouette, crouched above the stock of a weapon as he fired it into the crowd to Jaime's right.
...
There was no time to waste. Coolly, the other man tossed his needler to the floor at Pardo's feet, peeled off his gloves, then drew his other weapon, a heavy, military-model TK70 laser pistol. "Goodbye, Pardo."
He fired, sending a bolt squarely into the gunman's chest; one-tenth of a megajoule in a tenth-second pulse dumped energy equivalent to twenty grams of exploding TNT into the target. A fist-sized crater opened Pardo's chest in a burst of vaporizing blood and tissue.

Flechettes from a Auto shotgun can blow arms off, and the last paragraph shows has a laser pistol rated at 100 kilojoules...
By the way This event was preceded by a large scale interactive holographic recreation of the battle of Gettysburg, B-tech style.

latter on a Laser Rifle dose this

Quote

Tactics of Duty CH-14


Swinging about, Alex scanned the rampart above, his visor HUD picking out swiftly moving heat sources and bracketing them in flashing cursors. As he raised his laser rifle and aimed at the nearest of the IR targets, his suit electronics relayed targeting information to his HUD. Crosshairs intersected the cursor and flashed green.
He squeezed the trigger. There was a flash, and his external pickups caught the man's shriek as his clothing and kevlar armor caught fire. Alex shifted targets as the man tumbled backward off the wall; a second trooper running along the walkway took a pulse of coherent light squarely in the chest, and the explosion of vaporizing body fluids and tissue also pitched him backward and off the rampart....

...Well, it had been too much to hope that the two of them could actually penetrate the Citadel's defenses and remain undiscovered for long, not with so many soldiers and base personnel wandering around. An alarm was sounding somewhere in the depths of the Citadel's central keep, a rasping buzz that set the teeth on edge. Atop the gate tower, off to Alex's right, a quad-mount gun turret pivoted about with a mechanical whine, its twin pairs of autocannons dipping to bear on the invader. Alex triggered a shot from his laser, sending a blue-green pulse of light slashing through the night, searing off one of the gun barrels and boiling away a fist-sized crater in a burst of hot vapor.

and this

Quote

Instinctively, McCall raised his rifle one-handed, triggering a dazzling flash of blue-green light that exploded the head of the first soldier in a messy splatter of blood, bone, and gray matter

Laser Rifles can set fire to clothing and body armor, it can vaporize enough of you to cause you to be pushed backwards, and can melt a fist sized crater into a armored turret after it had already sliced off a gun barrel.

A Laser Rifle in another book

Quote

Black Dragon CH 14


The room filled with ruby brilliance. A crack, a stench of ozone, and burned meat as the woman was slammed back against the wall by the jet effect of her own body fluids boiling away from a laser beam.

like before it can vaporize enough of you to push you backwards with some force.

A different book and a laser pistol

Quote

Hearts of Chaos CH 30


Magically, Lady K's laser was already out and leveled." He saw a red flash.
The beam punched through his forehead. It flash-boiled the fluids in his brain, causing them to expand, rupturing his skull and forcing his eyeballs out of the sockets.
She looked down at him. Bits of puffed-out brain showed here and there where they'd pushed through his skull. They looked like steamed cauliflower.

ouch...

Also in three different books the Zeus Heavy Rifle is described a bit, in all three cases it's said to fire hypersonic slugs,
it's also a semi auto 12.7mm Rifle firing 45g slugs and has a range of over 3,000m.
The KE is about 70 kilojoules

For reference a 50 cal BMG tops out at around 20 kilojoules and the 14.5m HMG the Russians use tops out at around 35 kilojoules.

B-tech infantry weapons can be seriously powerful...

==========================================================
Well I was thinking on C3 systems and I remembered this.
Remember Mechcommander? Well their exist a similer system in universe

Quote

Imminent Crisis Ch 11[indent]With nothing to do but wait, Amelio strode over to a bank of monitors manned by a set of MechCommanders. The position was a relatively new development in the AFFC, and the general was not sure exactly how he felt about it....
...As the most technologically advanced of the Great Houses, the Federated Commonwealth always attempted, and usually succeeded, in providing its military officers with the best training and equipment. This led to the finest officer corps in known space and had made the FedCom juggernaut a fearsome opponent. Their latest attempt to push the envelope had resulted in a new generation of field commanders like these sitting at their console banks before him.

By combining intensive new training techniques that included the latest, top-of-the-line Command/ Control /Communications and logistical software from the prestigious New Avalon Institute of Science, the AFFC had created an integrated, "whole-picture" suite of software that removed the logistical burdens of command. This allowed the MechCommanders, who directly controlled anywhere from a lance up to a company, depending upon the mission profile, to do what they did best: win battles.

But this new type of officer was removed from what he'd known most of his life that he didn't know what to make of them. However, their first deployment in Operation Bird Dog against the Smoke Jaguars had been a spectacular success. Now, with the resources at his disposal barely adequate for taking the planet, the Archon had once more shown her trust in his command abilities—not to mention emphasizing the importance of this mission—by giving him a cadre of these officers. He would soon be utilizing them in the orbital insertion of his 'Mechs before the DropShips themselves made planetfall. He only hoped they would not flame out like the Hanse Davion.

A glance at the first MechCommander's console showed him several monitors, a keyboard, and a light stylus that the officer was busy using. The main monitor currently displayed a topographical map of what Amelio assumed was that company's designated landing site. To the left of that were small monitor feeds from all twelve MechWarriors under the officer's direct control. They were giving him information on everything from their own visual feeds to their 'Mechs' general status and their current physical condition. Finally, several other monitors above and to the right conveyed additional battlefield conditions: a weather-satellite feed, a tie-in to the feeds from the two MechCommanders whose units would drop closest to this one's, and, surprisingly enough, what appeared to be a standard, local news broadcast.[/indent]

The perspective is from Hauptmann-General Victor Amelio of the 4th Donegal Guards.

I doubt that most of the mechs in the 4th had C3 installed for this system to work, so it seems that mechs and other units already have some sort of basic C3 already and that the C3 that is used in game is a more advanced system (though it's more of a remote firing system than a data link realy).

=========================================================================
Speed Redux

I mentioned this a little bit before but here's some new info on this.

A Timber Wolf as we all know and love according to the basic rules is a 5/8 mech. This Translates into 86.4 kph.

However this is not it's top speed, under the rules in tactical operations we have three rules/items that enhances it's top speed.
1. Sprinting, this allows a mech to move/vehicle at twice it's walking speed, at the cost of being easier to hit (pilot concentrating on getting to point B from point A), and being unable to engage in combat (again pilot concentrating on piloting). This ability stacks with TSM or MASC (resulting in a 2.5x walking modifier). So that Timber Wolf can in fact move at 108kph (it dose not have MASC and AFAIK it can not be pod mounted so that's that, but if it did that's 140.4kph).

The Second option is a supercharger (interestingly fluffed as a disabled governor, as well as a engine booster), this effectively behaves as MASC and in fact it dose stack with MASC and sprinting! All three options (Sprinting, MASC and Supercharger) would give you a 3x walking modifier, two of them 2.5x. one big difference over MASC is the fact that a supercharger can be pod mounted (AFAIK) so the Timber wolf can use this and sprint. So with a supercharger and sprinting a Timber wolf can move at speeds of 140.4kph (for short periods of time).

Their is one last thing in tactical operations, That is the ability to connect to a navigation satellite (assuming ones available) and if done the mech/vehicle can gain a +1 movement point (due to better terrain maps). So a Timber Wolf can move at a respectable 14 hexes a turn or 151.2kph.

However that's not the last ability... In A Time of War (the current B-tech RPG) theirs a pilot ability that gives a +2 to the units movement if it sprints. The ability is called Speed demon by the way. Using this ability however functions as sprinting, but to use it to its fullest you need to sprint any way...

So a Timber Wolf that is equipped with a Supercharger, has access to a navigation satellite, with a speed demon pilot and is sprinting can in fact move at 16 hexes a turn! Thats 172.8kph.

Another example, the Locust 6M is canonically the fastest mech in the game/B-tech universe when it uses it's MASC capable of moving at 28 hexes a turn or 302.4kph (it's 14/21 other wise), Well with a Speed demon, Nav Sat and sprints it can push that to 38 hexes a turn or a whopping 410.4kph (it's also moving at 114m/s).

Also note Vehicles also get these ability's, They also have an ability found in total Warfare (and something that most people tend to forget, it's also dates to the 80s so it's not a new ability) when on roads ground vehicles get a +1 movement.

Here's a list of speeds when that unit sprints, has a speed demon pilot and has a Nav sat up-link.
Base speed / maximum speed (in kph)
2/3= 7 (75.6kph) -Urbanmech
3/5= 9 (97.2kph)
4/6= 11 (118.8kph)
5/8= 13 (140.4kph)
6/9= 15 (162kph)
7/11= 17 (183.6kph)
8/12= 19 (205.2kph) -Ice Ferret, Dragonfly, Most Locusts, Spider...
9/14= 21 (226.8kph) -Vixen, Phantom, Hussar...
10/15= 23 (248.4kph) -Firemoth (with out MASC, with MASC it's 28)
11/17= 25 (270kph) -Fireball
12/18= 27 (291.6kph) -Ice Storm
13/20= 29 (313.2kph) -Savannah Master
14/21= 31 (334.8kph) -Locust 6M
15/23= 33 (356.4kph) -Gabriel Hover craft and Ferret Scout VTOL
16/24= 35 (378kph) -I'm not aware of any unit moving this fast.

Note that ground Vehicles can get +10.8kph for road travels (Mechs & VTOLs not apply).

Their you have it a battlemech or vehicle can be surprisingly fast.
The A Time of War companion adds a Drag Racer ability to vehicle crews, like Speed demon it modifiers the top speed of a vehicle, this time by 3, though im not 100% sure if it stacks with Speed demon, though it's not available for mech pilots.

Edited by Nebfer, 14 November 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

I plan to post more at a later point, but to start off...

One of the closest examples I was able to find for a real-life analogue to the Arrow IV, in terms of both weight and functionality, for a discussion some time ago was the Delilah cruise missile.

• 187 kg for the Delilah to the Arrow IV's 200 kg,
  
• the Delilah having a flight speed of Mach 0.3 to Mach 0.7 (~102 m/s to ~238 m/s) that would allow it to reach the Arrow IV's maximum range (4080 meters, from (8 mapsheets) * (17 rows of hexes per mapsheet) * (30 meters per hex)) in ~17 to ~40 seconds (1-4 turns) versus the Arrow IV's implied flight speed of ~204-408 m/s (range of 4080 meters (8 mapsheets) divided by a ~10-20-second (1 turn delay between firing and arrival) flight time (see the "Indirect Artillery Flight Times Table" on page 181 of Tactical Operations))

IMO, the Arrow IV is essentially a slightly-larger Delilah, possibly with a far more powerful engine.
Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 15 November 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Nebfer]

Strum Wealh, on 15 November 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

I plan to post more at a later point, but to start off...

One of the closest examples I was able to find for a real-life analogue to the Arrow IV, in terms of both weight and functionality, for a discussion some time ago was the Delilah cruise missile.

• 187 kg for the Delilah to the Arrow IV's 200 kg,
  
• the Delilah having a flight speed of Mach 0.3 to Mach 0.7 (~102 m/s to ~238 m/s) that would allow it to reach the Arrow IV's maximum range (4080 meters, from (8 mapsheets) * (17 rows of hexes per mapsheet) * (30 meters per hex)) in ~17 to ~40 seconds (1-4 turns) versus the Arrow IV's implied flight speed of ~204-408 m/s (range of 4080 meters (8 mapsheets) divided by a ~10-20-second (1 turn delay between firing and arrival) flight time (see the "Indirect Artillery Flight Times Table" on page 181 of Tactical Operations))

IMO, the Arrow IV is essentially a slightly-larger Delilah, possibly with a far more powerful engine.

Thoughts?

Well it's in the same range, Though I would suspect that the Arrow trades range for a larger warhead.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I love reading this stuff. Thanks for writing it out!

[dal10]

impressive posting.

if they don't put this on the forum awards i call for a riot.

[Nebfer]

Got a PM on the B-tech forums that got me thinking on Real world Stealth as apply's to B-tech history.

We know that the real life Sea Wolf class subs exist in B-tech (and it seems B-tech USA built far more of them than the three real life USA did), we also know that vehicles like the BM-30 Smerch & the M270 MLRS also existed (as dose the Phalanx AMS). Further more by 2023 Naval ships where equipped with Rail guns (also by 2007 B-tech USA and western powers had built a space station that could house 2,000 and had space based construction facility's).
Also considering that the late 1980s early 1990s is a good divergence point for B-tech. Considering that the YF-22s first flight was in September of 1990, it stands to be fairly reasonable that the F22 Raptor existed in B-tech earth, to say nothing about the earlier Stealth aircraft (the specs for what became the JSF originate in the early 90s so it might exist but that might be pushing it a bit).

So If B-tech Earth had stealth tech as far back as the 1980s How dose this apply in a what if situation? I.e. How would it compare to B-tech stealth.

IIRC Modern Stealth primarily involves Passive radar absorption and or reflection away from the radar receiver, as well as IR reduction techniques. However as far as I know radar absorption dose not seem to be the primary (it's mentioned in the Tech entry) system B-tech uses for it's Stealth, the GECM is. The RPG indicates that EM based stealth determines what sensors are needed to detect the unit (I.e. Standard sensors, Beagle or Bloodhound), IR based stealth deals with the To hit modifier at range, and Optical stealth deals with movement based to hit modifiers. As such B-tech vehicle based stealth relies on IR and active and passive EM stealth (BA actually have some optical in their stealth armors, and not im not talking about mimetic).

So B-tech Stealth uses Active and passive EM Stealth with passive IR (though active might be a possibility as well), where as real life only uses Passive EM & IR. To me this seems to indicate that passive EM on it's own might not be enough in B-tech verse.

So perhaps at best an aircraft like the F-22 can bee seen by active probes but have the range to hit modifiers.

Here's an interesting tech excerpt from Era Report 2750 page 101

Quote

BEAGLE ACTIVE PROBE
“In order to kill an enemy, one must see the enemy.” This simple
idea was brought to the forefront of Terran research and development
by the middle of the twenty-sixth century. By this time, active
camouflage and other electronic warfare systems had made it more
and more difficult for common sensor suites to detect hostile hidden
units until it was too late. An SLDF think tank on Luna began
to research ways to make the already-complex BattleMech sensor
packages even more robust and effective. The Beagle Active Probe
was the end result.
The Beagle suite centered on a large computer core that
then tied into the ’Mech’s or vehicle’s standard battle computer
and sensors. The development team also added input from secondary
radar, visible light, thermal, and seismic sensors placed
throughout strategic areas on the operating unit. As the unit
scanned with its standard sensors, the returning data from each
input source was analyzed by the Beagle’s computer core and
cross-referenced with the Beagle’s independent sensors to filter
out interference from electronic warfare and local terrain. Any
anomalies flagged by the Beagle were then subjected to targeted
sensor sweeps to verify authenticity and, if possible, identify
any threats. These active sweeps and data processes completed
every millisecond, requiring a heavy computer core for adequate
cooling and combat resilience...

Note Beagle pre dates the SLDF stealth armors by more than 50 years.

The first paragraph is the most interesting. It seems that basic Stealth tech is more wide spread than it seems.

[Strum Wealh]

Also of interest, IMO, is how closely modern stealth & ECM technology is to the capabilities of the BT systems.

The Capellans' Stealth Armor is essentially "a poor man's Null Signature System", where NullSig itself is very similar to the ADAPTIV system created by BAE Systems.

The Chameleon Light Polarization Shield is likely based on electrochromic technology; Popular Science ran an article in May 1997 regarding similar technologies being applied to the Joint Strike Fighter project (now the F-35) as a stealth system (see here and here).

The Void Signature System is essentially a combined package of NullSig and CLPS, but (like Stealth Armor and unlike either NullSig or CLPS) requires an ECM suite (either Guardian or Angel) to be installed and operational in order to function.

The Guardian ECM Suite ("...typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors...") is a multi-spectrum electronic warfare system that likely includes electronic radar jamming equipment (much of the details of which seem to match the real-world design details of DARPA's Precision Electronic Warfare (PREW) project - including "...on-demand, low-cost capability that can accurately deny hostile forces the ability to communicate and navigate while allowing the same abilities for friendly forces..."), some degree of laser jamming equipment, an infrared countermeasures (IRCM) system (likely very similar to the planned CIRCM system), a sonar jamming system (see here and here), and some system meant to confuse magnetometers and magnetic anomaly detectors.

The Angel ECM suite is really just a single box containing two independently-operable sets of (slightly more powerful) Guardian ECM innards.

Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 18 November 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Nebfer]

Strum Wealh, on 18 November 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Also of interest, IMO, is how closely modern stealth & ECM technology is to the capabilities of the BT systems.

The Capellans' Stealth Armor is essentially "a poor man's Null Signature System", where NullSig itself is very similar to the ADAPTIV system created by BAE Systems.

The Chameleon Light Polarization Shield is likely based on electrochromic technology; Popular Science ran an article in May 1997 regarding similar technologies being applied to the Joint Strike Fighter project (now the F-35) as a stealth system (see here and here).

The Void Signature System is essentially a combined package of NullSig and CLPS, but (like Stealth Armor and unlike either NullSig or CLPS) requires an ECM suite (either Guardian or Angel) to be installed and operational in order to function.

The Guardian ECM Suite ("...typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors...") is a multi-spectrum electronic warfare system that likely includes electronic radar jamming equipment (much of the details of which seem to match the real-world design details of DARPA's Precision Electronic Warfare (PREW) project - including "...on-demand, low-cost capability that can accurately deny hostile forces the ability to communicate and navigate while allowing the same abilities for friendly forces..."), some degree of laser jamming equipment, an infrared countermeasures (IRCM) system (likely very similar to the planned CIRCM system), a sonar jamming system (see here and here), and some system meant to confuse magnetometers and magnetic anomaly detectors.

The Angel ECM suite is really just a single box containing two independently-operable sets of (slightly more powerful) Guardian ECM innards.

Thoughts?

Much belated on this, The More recent mech internal diagram of the Battlemeaster indicates that B-tech uses AESA Radar systems, which IIRC is top of the line kit in terms of radars today.
Built In General B-tech ECM is wide spectrum, and as you state deals with most if not all of what you listed. Further more the Built in ECM of regular units is no slouch either. THe ER 2750 entry on the GECM also mentions that basic ECM was quite capable... The current source books are rife with the remarks that communication systems are devastated by even the basic built in ECM of most units, even Fire control is affected, per Techmanual the intrinsic ECM systems is why "Basic" fire control has a +2 to hit.

the Entry on GECM states that it detects any sort of Electromagnetic wave figures out what it is and where it's from and configures it self to the threat and fires of an EMP (basicly all Jammers are a EMP generator of sorts) at the offending target, which either missdirect the oposing system or cause it to reboot to reset it self, or perhaps both.

The GECM Entry mentions that some Periphery units running into units with the GECM stated that it was like fighting sensor ghosts, perhaps a bit exagerated but probly not to far off, also considering that GECM can use the Ghost targets ability...

Era report 2750 also mentions this

Quote

BEAGLE ACTIVE PROBE
“In order to kill an enemy, one must see the enemy.” This simple
idea was brought to the forefront of Terran research and development
by the middle of the twenty-sixth century. By this time, active
camouflage and other electronic warfare systems had made it more
and more difficult for common sensor suites to detect hostile hidden
units until it was too late. An SLDF think tank on Luna began
to research ways to make the already-complex BattleMech sensor
packages even more robust and effective. The Beagle Active Probe
was the end result.
The Beagle suite centered on a large computer core that
then tied into the ’Mech’s or vehicle’s standard battle computer
and sensors. The development team also added input from secondary
radar, visible light, thermal, and seismic sensors placed
throughout strategic areas on the operating unit. As the unit
scanned with its standard sensors, the returning data from each
input source was analyzed by the Beagle’s computer core and
cross-referenced with the Beagle’s independent sensors to filter
out interference from electronic warfare and local terrain. Any
anomalies flagged by the Beagle were then subjected to targeted
sensor sweeps to verify authenticity and, if possible, identify
any threats. These active sweeps and data processes completed
every millisecond, requiring a heavy computer core for adequate
cooling and combat resilience.

Note Star league Stealth systems are 27th Century (2630s for Null sig and CLPS) and not present during the 2550s as mentioned in this entry, so the systems mentioned here are effectively basic systems mounted in the standard sensor and firecontrol gear of each unit.

The Second paragraph indicates a bit of what an Active probe can do. 1,000 times a second it sweeps with the units primary sensors, which can be a fair number of diffrent types, analizes them, cross refrences them with secondary sensors, then it flags the intersting results for further scaning and then it looks up the warbooks to see if the results matchs any potential targets in the units warbook.

Quote

TAG
Target acquisition gear (TAG) was a concept that had already
been established by the time of Terra’s Second Soviet Civil War.
Infantry would ”paint” a target with an infrared or visible laser
beam, so that a bomb or missile equipped with optical sensors
could then home in on the designated point, avoiding radio-based
interference. By the time mankind had expanded into space,
electronic countermeasures had already worked up an effective
defense by using fiber-optic sensors to detect a laser dot and then
emit other dots at the same light frequencies in the surrounding
terrain, easily misleading any such smart weapons.

To solve this, the Terran Hegemony developed its new TAG technology
around three separate systems. The first was a multi-frequency
laser emission diode on the exterior of the BattleMech that would
paint the target. The second system used a similar, but more complex,
multi-frequency laser diode that would be used as a direct communications
polarized EM sensor that could detect any counter-laser painting on or
around the intended target. As the TAG system detected countermeasures,
the targeting laser would shift through frequencies quickly and
randomly, making any counter-laser systems unable to keep up with
the TAG system. Meanwhile, information on the changing frequencies
continually transmitted to the smart weapon, assuring that the incoming
round knew which target was real and which was not.
link to the smart weapon. The third system was a sensitive

Another indication of the basic ECM avalible to B-tech units.

[Pht]

Nice to see you still keeping this thread updated!

[kosmos1214]

nice thread love the lore here and on auto cannon calibers i seem to remember reading on sarna.net that ac classes where based on the amount of damage the ac does in a burst and that the difference in calibers was accounted by the difference in rate of fire so the armstrong at 120mm and the chemjet at 185mm are both class 20 acs but the armstrong has a higher rate of fire then the chemjet just thought i would throw that out there

[Nebfer]

kosmos1214, on 12 September 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

nice thread love the lore here and on auto cannon calibers i seem to remember reading on sarna.net that ac classes where based on the amount of damage the ac does in a burst and that the difference in calibers was accounted by the difference in rate of fire so the armstrong at 120mm and the chemjet at 185mm are both class 20 acs but the armstrong has a higher rate of fire then the chemjet just thought i would throw that out there

Yes it's supposedly based off the over all damage, but different calibers will have different shell weights and velocity's, and for a given mass of ammo will fire off a different amount for a given mass.

An 185mm AC-20 would be firing far fewer shells than a 120mm based one, however in B-tech terms the over all damage output has been equalized, though I believe that the weapons we see and use are in fact generic averaged out versions, the fluff dose often mention that weapons brand name X is more powerful or longer ranged or produces less heat than other brand Y. So it should be safe to say that their are likely in real B-tech universe a class 20 Autocannon that in fact deals 22 damage, like wise theirs likely one that deals 19 damage, but in game they have been averaged out to 20. They should not be huge differences but small but notable differences.

I mentioned that B-tech infantry weapons seem to be notably more powerful than their current real world counter parts.

Well In the A Time of War companion it introduces you to "Vintage" gear, The rules mention that this is tech no newer than 22nd century (2100s), so is likely to be found on the few worlds that are at that tech level (in RPG terms largely Tech D, with a bit of C).

This gear is notably inferior to "Modern" B-tech gear.
Vintage Auto Rifle (assault) is a 2/3 weapon the "Modern" B-tech Auto rifle is a 4/4. I know what your thinking Nebfer what are these values your throwing at us... In the RPG the first number (before the /) is the armor penetration rating of the weapon, the second is the Damage, in both cases higher is better.
Armor wise the basic armor has 4 values one for each main damage type (the the auto rifles are ballistic weapons), Melee, Ballistic, Energy and eXplosive.
The Vintage Body armor has a rating of 1/4/0/2, only covers the torso (and head), and in total weighs 4.2kg (helmet included).
Generic "Modern" Flak Vest has a rating of 1/5/1/3 and is 3.8kg with helmet. (how armor works is if the armor value exceeds the weapons AP value you subtract the difference out from the damage. I.e. A player with a Vintage Auto rifle attacks a guy with modern Flak armor and hits with a shot the weapons AP is just 2 vs a Armor rating of 5, the difference of 3 is subtracted from the damage of the weapon, which at the lest deals no damage, though damage is modified by 1/4th of the Margin of success of the attack rounded down), Also note if you want full body with modern flak that will weight in at 9.6kg and cover every thing with equal protection (Sans hands and feet).
Note AP rounds add a +2 to the AP value and a -1 to damage (for vintage that would make it a 4/2, for "modern" 6/3), which helps a bit, but still is inadequate for dealing with the stronger armors.

And that theirs a lot more armor types, most Houses have their own gear, often notably better than the basic flak vest shown here. For example the Clans use an armor system that covers the torso, head, arms and legs with a value of 3/6/5/3 and is only 7kg (9.5kg if you want the boots and gloves but they provide less protection), it also has built in Helmet mounted radio, range finders, Anti flash protection, IR and night vision optics. And yes the arms and legs are just as protected as the torso or head is.

Many other armors are some what similar in that they are full body or near so but have lighter protection on the limbs, for example the 3050s era Fed Suns body armor torso armor value of 3/5/4/3, and the arms have 1/2/2/1, the head is 4/5/5/4, boots 2/3/3/1 (almost every one has the same type of boots it seems) and the gloves 2/2/2/2 total weight 9.5kg helmet gear includes radio, range finder, anti flash and IR gear (Range finder might include Night vision functions as well), note the Legs are unarmored.

Along with the before mentioned examples of B-tech infantry weapons, It would seem that in the unlikely event of real life infantry fighting their B-tech counter parts it seems that they will find them selves out gunned and out armored.

Some more Era Report 2750

Quote

AUTOCANNONS
Autocannons were the logical evolution of the primary weapons
found on the combat vehicles of Terra’s twentieth and twentyfirst
century. While maintaining the same essential principles
behind the original ballistic cannon, the autocannon boasted an
increased rate of fire made possible by more efficient firing mechanisms,
improved metallurgy, lightweight munitions casings and
a higher-velocity propellant. Together, these refinements made it
possible to fire bursts of anti-armor rounds into a target far faster
and more accurately than ever.

So compared to Autocannons of today B-tech ones have higher rates of fire, lighter cartridge cases (I would assume plastic, which is something like 1/3rd the weight of regular brass cases), better propellants which also seems to indicate a higher velocity, as well as improved metallurgy of the components, resulting in stronger and lighter elements.

Quote

ULTRA AUTOCANNON
Another later direction of the Star League’s autocannon
research was an increase in the already-high rate of fire found in
most models of autocannon. Material engineers began to test
refined aluminum being produced at orbital factories for use
in structural members of large orbital habitats, WarShips, and
space-based mega-engineering projects. An extremely lightweight
combination of aluminum alloys and foamed titanium made the
round lighter, and thus gave it a higher muzzle velocity. One further
refinement used a highly magnetic iron-based material in the case
of the round itself, which allowed a magnetic loading mechanism
to force rounds into the firing chamber faster than normal mechanical
loading techniques.

This a bit of a departure of the older Ultras jam due to the firing circuits burning out, used in most other sources, though the other interesting note is that the rounds use Aluminum and foamed Titanium, for a slightly higher velocity allowing for the extra range over regular ACs.

Quote

LASER SYSTEMS
Laser weaponry has a long history on the modern battlefield.
During the Second Soviet Civil War, lasers were used to detonate
mines and booby traps across the battlefields of Europe and Asia.
Low-powered laser systems were installed on early interplanetary
and interstellar spacecraft to be used against small particles and
larger rocky bodies.
The modern small- and medium-size laser systems seen across
the Inner Sphere today were introduced during the Age of War.
These lasers were powered from military vehicles’ fission or fusion
engines as free electron lasers rather than the more common
chemical laser systems used previously. It took a further sixteen
years of development to produce the largest modern laser system.
The large laser system required a much stronger power plant able
to produce an immense pulse of energy that fired a laser by first
producing high-energy plasma from the unit’s fusion engine, then
channeling the plasma into a pre-firing chamber where the plasma
was then focused to produce a powerful gamma-ray burst laser.

So Basic small and medium lasers are basic Free electron lasers, while the large laser is a Gamma ray based laser.

This is from a test version of Interstellar operations, which is not out yet.

Quote

Elias: Following the Second Soviet Civil War and its nuclear exchange, the Western Alliance was not enthusiastic about nuclear weapon research. However, its member-nations continued some work, producing the first all-fusion weapons lacking fissile elements in 2043 to replace older weapons with crude fission first stages. Bureaucratic inertia, efforts to protect budgets, and empire building in the monolithic Western Alliance Science Directorate refined the technology further in the second half of the 21st Century, exploiting pure fusion weapons’ lack of a need for a critical mass to produce very small weapons. The resulting decaton-yield weapons, massing only a few kilograms, had no end users and mostly sat in member-nation stockpiles—but their engineering success led others to duplicate them as fusion knowledge spread. They were the nightmare of the Terran Alliance and led that nation to centralize its authority and conquer “Separatist” nations in the 22nd and 23rd Centuries, while Separatist terrorists like Elias Liao would destroy entire city blocks with them.
Decaton-yield demolition grenades (often bastardized as a “micro-ton grenades”) available since 2077, all have statistics similar to the “Elias” presented here (which was actually developed for MII0 in 2792). It is a rectangular block massing some 5kg, mostly a durable casing by mass that is about the size of small attaché case. It has no explosive, radioactive, or high-density features to stand out to advanced sensors like Active Probes.

Elias Laio is mentioned in the Laio source book (page ~8 IIRC) the founder of House laio, which mention these "Micro ton" "grenades", so this is the first time they have been described, as one can see these are pure fusion warheads, most are in B-tech, though some are fission style. The Elias is a 5kg fusion warhead with a yield of 50 tons of TNT. Deals 10 B-tech dmg, though I would not use this to say that 1 dmg point = 5 tons of TNT, one dose have to note that the weapon is likely not directional so only a fraction will actually hit the target.

Belated edit: fixed the horrible formatting, which I did not put in, in the first place.

Edited by Nebfer, 19 September 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[kosmos1214]

yah i get that acs are averaged out i was jest throwing my 2 cents in is all as i thought the little bit of info might help someone else grasp why they are listed the way they are in game termes

[Nebfer]

Something interesting I just found
The Galtor Campaign Has some interesting info on it's world...

Galtor has a population of 33 million (the book actually stats 36.43 million, but more recent info stats 33 million) as of 3025
Socio-Industrial Levels: C-C-B-C-B (this comes from later sources)

Crude Energy reserves: .2 Q units (Im assuming referencing the Quad, in this case the amount would be roughly equivalent to 5 million tons of crude oil, 1 quad = 25.2 million tons)
Defense is 8.5% of GDP
Arable land 33%
Meat Production 12.2 million tons (Beef, Pork & Lamb)
Transport
-Rail Traffic 20,000,000,000 net ton-km (IIRC Effectively equivalent of 1 ton traveling 20 billion km)
-Passenger Cars 6 million
-Commercial vehicles 2 million
Civil Aviation
-400,000,000,000 passenger-km
-20,000,000,000 freight ton-km
Communications
-Video Systems (all Transmissions) 10,000,000
-news papers 400 per 1,000 people

Physicians 23,000
Life expectancy at birth
Males 66.2 years
Females 73.1 years

IIRC this is not to far off from say the US in the 1960s, or the world around 2005ish
In 1985 the world average was 64.5 at lest per this site, the Galtor campaign book was made in 1987

Galtor has 8 million vehicles and 33 million people, that's 4.125 people per vehicle, or 242.5 vehicles per 1,000 people.
World wide theirs an estimated 1 billion vehicles, and some 7 billion people or 142.8 vehicles per 1,000 people. The US has over 800 per 1,000.

The average person on Galtor Travels 12,100km per year by aircraft in the US (2012) theirs 580 billion passenger miles per this site, or ~930 billion km (the avg US person seems to travel only 3,000km per year by air).
same source but on freight indicates that theirs 2.76 trillion tons of rail traffic per km

Edited by Nebfer, 17 September 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[Nebfer]

USILR codes Redux

Was making a world using the rules in the released Interstellar operations beta files.
And Noticed that the USILR Codes are a bit different that previous...
I mentioned this a bit previously, most as how the RPG describes them.
However as this is a Beta and the final product is not out yet, some reservations must be allowed.

I would be describing portions of this and what it applies to what today's Earth would be rated as.

The USILR Codes are a quick glance at what kind of development the world your looking at has. A world with a listed code will be as such A/B/C/D/F, A being the Highest and F the lowest, the 5 letters representing the 5 attributes being evaluated.
The catagorys being, Technology Development, Industrial Development, Industrial Output, Raw Material Dependence and Agricultural Dependence.

The First value is Technological Sophistication, This loosely represents the Technological development of the world, and to a degree how wide spread it is, measuring primarily Education, Medical and Microelectronics (I.e. Microchips) development.
This is also the one with the most noticeable changes, theirs actually two new fields "Advanced" and "Regressed", for above A and below F respectively.
The two new entrys are
Advanced: Is basically the most advanced worlds around, such as New Avalon or Strana Mechty,Terra would likely also be one. Worlds hosting the best R&D centers and university's.
Regressed: Is simply Pre 20th century (1900 or earlier).
F Rated Worlds or Primitive: is roughly equivalent to the 20th Century (1901 to 2000), particularly in medical fields, the majority of the population lives with little to no dependency on technology, little in the ways of advanced education
D rated worlds or low tech: roughly equivalent to 21st to 22nd century (2001 to 2200) again particularly in medical fields, an almost nonexistent microelectronics industry largely run by private concerns.
and so on,
Notes: It should be pointed out that this is largely an world average, it is possible for a region to be higher than the rest, the entry dose mention that this was the case for 20th to 22nd century Terra, it mentions that 21st century Terra that the most ability to make the most advanced tech was only found in far fewer nations than their where in total, and that the Terran Alliance Bankrupted a number of the poorer nations Developing portions of that higher tech such as Fusion power and FTL Drives.
Note 2: This rating system is inverted with the system used by Battletech, B-techs Tech F (Clan tech) is rated A (or advanced) under the USILR Codes

The Second Entry is Industrial Development, is the larger Gage of how wide spread it's industry's and tech is, a low value would indicate a very narrow focus or limited to a small segment of the planet. For example a World with a Tech A but a Development of D is likely producing a few advanced tech items and skipping a host of others (like they can build a battlemech but they can not build advanced medicines, TVs or perhaps even Microwaves).
A & B rated worlds are capable of building any item around (B, less so), D rated Worlds are roughly equivalent to Mid 20th century (~1950s) in development, C rated worlds is equivalent to 22n century, and can build some advanced tech, like primitive fusion plants (Battlemechs are right out)

The next one is Industrial Output:
This largely indicates how much it can produce, A rated worlds can produce vasts amounts of stuff, D rated ones have a severe shortage in production capability's in critical areas, and thus relies on imports to attempt to make up. Though it should be noted that their not truly dependent on imports at this level, out side of some critical higher tech item that they use... For examples they might import medium lasers for that mech they build, or they import the advanced CPUs for their game consoles. In any rates at a D rating production shortages and delays would be common to various items.

Raw Material Dependence: is next it is an indication of the availability of raw resources, It's also an indication of how hard they have to work to get said resources. Few resources are imported out of system, typically these would be high value items, Iron and Aluminum are unlikely to be imported from out of system. As such a world that is rated as a D is likely to speed a lot of time and funds to get at the resources they need, such as Deep mines, Space based mining, or perhaps even chemical syntheses (i.e. Coal to Oil)

Lastly we have Agricultural Dependence: Like the others this not only indicates how food a world can produce it also indicates how hard they have to work get food. on A rated worlds their are no shortages, the only imports would be exotics
on the other end would require some imports, but also indicates the vast usage of Hydroponics and vat grown food, perhaps even in orbital satellites.

In any case how this relates to us on todays earth Well this is some what conjuncture but given the available info Earth of Today would likely be around D/D/B/B/C

Tech: D, as theirs a wide gulf between Developed nations and thoughs who are not,
Development: Again theirs a large gap between developed and non, With no out side influences I doubt much of Africa would be capable of producing a modern CPU any time soon...
Output: theirs little issue on over all production...
Materials: No issues on resources, though in some areas some could say we are heading to some shortages of some items...
Agriculture: Again No real issues with food production as a whole, though some areas are suffering shortages...

The USA for example would likely be closer to C/C/A/B/C, though most Developed nations would be similar.

[Nebfer]

Some thoughts on just what B-tech battle armor can do.

Most suits will differ only slightly when put into terms such as what is below, you know different mass and chassis weights, armor mass, speed armor type... As such the Default IS suit will suffice for most suits.

IS standard
Battle Armor Class: Medium
Operating Mass: 1,000kg
Armor Mass: 450kg
Armor type: Standard
Armor Value: B-tech 9 points, RPG armor values 9/8/7/7 (Melee/Ballistic/Energy/eXplosives)
Armor composition: multi layer composite with radiation treated mono-crystal steel and diamond reinforced cubic boron nitride. (not sure if the steel layer id diamond reinforced or not, I.e. ferro fibrous armor)
Internal structure mass: 175kg
Sensors:
-Night Vision*
-IR*
-Radar, 2km effective range
-Electronic binoculars (500x zoom, with night vision capability)
-Acoustic sensors (Microphones)
-Meteorological sensors

* Both their capability's are unknown, but at the lest their as capable as their infantry counter parts, so at lest 1km range

Electronics
-Heads up display with integrated fire control
-Radio 25km range, 50km with unit leaders with sat uplink capability's
-Internal to external microphones
-Laser Range finders
-Electronic navigation assistants* and Sat Nav capability's (GPS)
-Data Networking ability's, can at lest send videos to other units, tracking data
-Various environmental controls
-Air recyclers and scrubbers with on board air supply sufficient to last 12 hours, can be extended to 24 hours
-Medical packs (four per suit), detects injury's, and delivers anti pain, coagulants & antibiotics to keep the operator awake and in operation until they can get medical treatment, a bit like Bio foam from Halo or Medi-gel from Mass Effect.

* I would of used **** but it seems a i ds is a censurable word here...

Ground speed: 11kph avg
Jumping: enhanced but more commonalty used are the built in jump packs capable of 90m jumps at a time, can clear 20m high obstacles, if like it's infantry counter part can perform around 2,000 jumps before needing to refuel, fuel use in space allows for 5.4km/s of Delta V, with a thrust of 4.9m/s (0.5Gs)
Strength enhancement: Roughly 2.5x over operators normal capability's*
Power Plant: High Capacity Battery with quick charging and swap out capability's under combat conditions can last for 24 hours, can be recharged in an hour or so or can be swapped out in about 5 minutes
Weapons: 1x Configurable Weapons mount with a 200kg weight limit common weapons included
Small laser, with enough power to fire it 30 times
Various Machine guns the standard MG per the RPG info seems to have 1,500 rounds, and can fire up to 30 rounds at a time (50 shots with 30 rounds per shot = 1,500), Shadows of war mentions that an Elementals MG is 13mm.
Missile launchers, various
A Light Recoilless Rifle, with 20 rounds of ammo

* A operator requires a Strength score of 6 to be qualified to operate a battle armor (you do not need it but to apply for the training you do, interestingly clan Elementals do not have a STR requirement for their training). The "Overloaded" (reduced to a crawl) carry capacity is 125kg at STR 6, Medium BA provide a +4 to this score making it a 10 which would result in a overloaded capacity of at 300kg.

The one thing I do not know is if the operating weight includes the weight of the operator or not... Considering how heavy some Clan elementals get I tend to believe that it dose not include the weight of the operator.

---Edit---
Well I had to run before I could really finish this, a dinner eat out called. Anything I add in the above section will be in italics.
As one can see the specs for the generic IS standard, so named due to it showing up almost simultaneously, in multiple houses with effectively the same looks and capability's (wide spread corporate espionage is suspected), the later Raiden and Cavalier are later suits with significant aesthetic changes, and some minor protection changes (the Cav lowers some protection for better Dexterity for example). For the most part all regular suits are going to have similar gear, Quad suits also have similar gear but are more piloted than warn.

I would assume that a IS standard can carry upwards of 3-400kg of external gear, in combat likely satchel charges, out side of combat ammo, and various gear the trooper would need, extra battery's, rechargers and the like.

Battle armor use high capacity battery's due to battlefield grade fusion reactors that small where not considered safe enough to be used, with one test mentioned ended up destroying a omnimech and much of a point of clan elemental's who where riding said mech, when one suit took simulated damage that caused the suit to lose containment... even though the damage would of been minor other wise.

Battle armor in the fluff like battlemechs are largely resilient to small arms with only a few weak spots such as the vision ports... though per the novel The Hunters (CH 21) a half kilo explosive charge from a grenade launcher might penetrate the suits armor, this is also where the one can find at lest one example of a suit transmitting video feeds.

Edited by Nebfer, 16 October 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[Pht]

Nefber, are the BA's still weak versus the vibrokatanas? I seem to recall some dest troopers de-limbing some elementals in a boarding action in space.... but I forget the text it was in.

[Nebfer]

Pht, on 17 October 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Nefber, are the BA's still weak versus the vibrokatanas? I seem to recall some dest troopers de-limbing some elementals in a boarding action in space.... but I forget the text it was in.

Per the RPG a medium class BA like the IS Standard, has a armor rating of 9, a Vibrokatana has a Armor penetration rating of 6, using the damage system of AToW, that would reduce the damage by 3, the Katana has a base damage of 3, Melee damage is resolved via this equation (Weapon Damage) + (Winner’s STR ÷ 4)† + (Winner’s MoS x 0.25)†
†Round up; For net MoS, subtract loser’s MoS from winner’s if both succeeded (or add loser’s MoF to winner’s MoS)

Lets assume a STR of 6 (a reasonably strong guy) and a MoS of 8 so a damage of 3 + 2 + 2 would be 7 subtract 3 due to the armor for 4, for a regular guy not in battle armor that would be the damage dealt, if the guy is in battle armor (or a vehicle/building for that matter) you will need to divide this damage value by the armor rating, rounding normally so 4/9 = 0.445 rounds down to zero, or no damage done to the elementals armor.

Though the DEST guys where in kage suits, light suits giving +2 to both AP and DMG so that Vibrokatana would have a rating of 8/5, the armor reduces the damage by 1, using the same modifiers (MoS of 8, STR of 6) we would have a final result of 8 damage divided by a armor rating of 9, so 1 point of damage is applied to the suit.

The Novel in question is The Hunters chapter 26, the novel has a bit of a DEST **** to it though, they seem to take out the better part of a star of Elementals with relatively minor casualty's (no dead, some badly injured, a few with lighter wounds), with roughly equal numbers of troops (at best it was 30 to 20), one elemental gets decapitated (if in armor I would like to know how), and another gets his arms cut off, the viewpoint team at the docking hatch is engaged by 5 elementals and takes them all out with little more than paint damage, a unarmored crew men deals more damage than the elemental team when he injures one with a burst of Gyrojet rounds, that damaged a leg, leg wound via shrapnel, at the bridge facing at lest 8 more elementals they killed 5 and badly injured the rest for just two injuries (slammed into a wall and punched in the gut with a battle claw, said elemental was the one with his arms getting cut offed, and then stabbed clean through both sides of the armor, the second had cracked ribs via being back handed into a wall, the guy managed to put a few holes in the elemental who knocked the wind out of him...).

So 10 dead Elementals, 3 badly wounded and a unknown number of crew vs 3 injured DEST from the view point team (their where 8 named characters mentioned in this segment). the Second team that headed to the Engineering spaces we do not know their tally.

Though it should be said that the rules in play in which this novel was written was a bit different but I would not know the details at the moment.

Edit: For reference the Elementals battle Claw would be rated at 5/4 +2 dmg for the operator, and lets add +1 for a MoS, so the attack rating would be 5/7 a Kage Suit has a armor value of 7 in the Melee, the elemental would be doing one point of damage to the kage

Edited by Nebfer, 17 October 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Pht]

Nebfer, on 17 October 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Per the RPG a medium class BA like the IS Standard, has a armor rating of 9, a Vibrokatana has a Armor penetration rating of 6, using the damage system of AToW, that would reduce the damage by 3, the Katana has a base damage of 3, Melee damage is resolved via this equation (Weapon Damage) + (Winner’s STR ÷ 4)† + (Winner’s MoS x 0.25)†
†Round up; For net MoS, subtract loser’s MoS from winner’s if both succeeded (or add loser’s MoF to winner’s MoS)

Lets assume a STR of 6 (a reasonably strong guy) and a MoS of 8 so a damage of 3 + 2 + 2 would be 7 subtract 3 due to the armor for 4, for a regular guy not in battle armor that would be the damage dealt, if the guy is in battle armor (or a vehicle/building for that matter) you will need to divide this damage value by the armor rating, rounding normally so 4/9 = 0.445 rounds down to zero, or no damage done to the elementals armor.

Though the DEST guys where in kage suits, light suits giving +2 to both AP and DMG so that Vibrokatana would have a rating of 8/5, the armor reduces the damage by 1, using the same modifiers (MoS of 8, STR of 6) we would have a final result of 8 damage divided by a armor rating of 9, so 1 point of damage is applied to the suit.

The Novel in question is The Hunters chapter 26, the novel has a bit of a DEST **** to it though, they seem to take out the better part of a star of Elementals with relatively minor casualty's (no dead, some badly injured, a few with lighter wounds), with roughly equal numbers of troops (at best it was 30 to 20), one elemental gets decapitated (if in armor I would like to know how), and another gets his arms cut off, the viewpoint team at the docking hatch is engaged by 5 elementals and takes them all out with little more than paint damage, a unarmored crew men deals more damage than the elemental team when he injures one with a burst of Gyrojet rounds, that damaged a leg, leg wound via shrapnel, at the bridge facing at lest 8 more elementals they killed 5 and badly injured the rest for just two injuries (slammed into a wall and punched in the gut with a battle claw, said elemental was the one with his arms getting cut offed, and then stabbed clean through both sides of the armor, the second had cracked ribs via being back handed into a wall, the guy managed to put a few holes in the elemental who knocked the wind out of him...).

So 10 dead Elementals, 3 badly wounded and a unknown number of crew vs 3 injured DEST from the view point team (their where 8 named characters mentioned in this segment). the Second team that headed to the Engineering spaces we do not know their tally.

Though it should be said that the rules in play in which this novel was written was a bit different but I would not know the details at the moment.

Edit: For reference the Elementals battle Claw would be rated at 5/4 +2 dmg for the operator, and lets add +1 for a MoS, so the attack rating would be 5/7 a Kage Suit has a armor value of 7 in the Melee, the elemental would be doing one point of damage to the kage

Sounds like a "close but not quite" on the author's part. Yeah, the DEST teams get some author-fiat-love. Let's not even discuss the spirit cats.

[Nebfer]

Pht, on 18 October 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

Sounds like a "close but not quite" on the author's part. Yeah, the DEST teams get some author-fiat-love. Let's not even discuss the spirit cats.

True to a point, though the rules should never be used as a 100% answer for writing challenges, for example the issue of combat ranges in B-tech, the novels largely slave away to them in this department, the most notable differences is in infantry combat, where we have accounts of 3km engagement ranges for 50 cal sniper rifles... yet a battlemech has difficulty hitting another mech at 660 meters with a Gauss rifle...

Well one of the things to note is that a lot of the B-tech novels where by in large written using the older rules as a basis, such as the 2nd ed of the RPG, Compendium the rules of warfare, and the like, though newer versions might of been available, the older ones being more available for reference... This largely explains a number of the odditys with the novels when compared to the current rules, for example the novels indicate that the Zeus Hvy Rifle is a 50 cal sniper rifle, but the current RPGs do not, the older RPGs do however use the idea that it is.

The RPG 2nd edition im not as familiar with it's rules, but from what I understand BA took 1/3rd of the regular damage (10 dmg reduced to 3) for Energy and Ballistic, immune to regular melee but took half damage from vibro weapons a Vibro katana did 2D6 + 5 dmg (avg 12 dmg).

An Elemental would likely have a Build (STR & CON in this edition) of 7 or 8, theirs an arm dmg threshold of Build x3, so 21 or 24 dmg will make the arm incapacitated... twice that and you Disable the arm (if the save throw is failed on this it's amputee time), Now their is a rule in the Mechwarrior companion (2nd edition expansion), that allows for a armor defeating strike that allows the full dmg to be done, also note their is a critical hit rule which if rolled deals 2x dmg. So it's possible to deal 34 dmg to a Elementals arm with it in armor, which would incapacitate it, but not disable it. I am not aware of other dmg modifiers at this time.

As one can see one could do a fair bit of damage to an elemental, though by the rules not quite lop off some arms but close enough....