77 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Sable, on 27 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

The upcoming Jumpjet changes and 3x4 matchmaking rule will have a big impact on how the "meta" builds perform. The 2 ERPPC + gauss combo on the timberwolf and the 2 PPC + 2 AC5 dragon slayer are effective because of poptart retardedness. Once jumping becomes a hazard for legs the need for more versatile builds will shift what is considered popular. The 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Direwolf some people have tried to use performs much worse because it can't do the jumping it needs to in order to avoid return fire. (also broken CT hitbox)

Im not sure how much it will effect the victor overall. It might a little but it still will be capable. It will however quite heavily effect the timber wolf.

[Shakespeare]

Sable, on 27 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

The upcoming Jumpjet changes and 3x4 matchmaking rule will have a big impact on how the "meta" builds perform. The 2 ERPPC + gauss combo on the timberwolf and the 2 PPC + 2 AC5 dragon slayer are effective because of poptart retardedness. Once jumping becomes a hazard for legs the need for more versatile builds will shift what is considered popular. The 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Direwolf some people have tried to use performs much worse because it can't do the jumping it needs to in order to avoid return fire. (also broken CT hitbox)

JJ nerf might make it more difficult for that sort of comp, but 4x3 isn't going to change anything except the chassis. 12-man groups are already practicing with those restrictions in place. You know what you get? 3 Victors, 3 CTF-3Ds, 3 SHDs, 3 Jenners. 6-9 jump-snipers with a wolfpack to swarm in and distract + clean up.

It's very effective. It's very boring. 4x3 will not save you.

[Jman5]

Hunchback

[Adiuvo]

meteorol, on 27 June 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Would you mind revealing what 773C builds are currently used in comp play? Did you just stay with the "classic" meta build and discarded jumpsniping (1 JJ for maneuvering only?) or did you upgrade the number of JJ to make jumpsniping possible to a lesser extent (still not DS jumpsniping)?

They aren't exactly currently used anymore, due to tonnage requirements. They don't offer that much more over a Dragon Slayer to warrant the additional tonnage and in some cases can even be a detriment due to the speed and inability to quickly jumpsnipe.

Since Crimson is mainly corner peeking though, the HGN would be better thanks to more armor and a standard engine. It would probably be using the same build as always but with more JJs and less ammo, thanks to the half ton options we have now.

[Revis Volek]

Currently if you brawl Cata, if you snipe DS.

I'm pretty sure their will be NO clan mechs in tourney play for quite some time...well until the release them for Cbills But i dont see the Timberwolf stealing the lime lights from either of these two totally.

[DONTOR]

Adiuvo, on 27 June 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

It'd be a Timberwolf with 2xERPPC/1xGauss. A Dragon Slayer would have the advantage in some situations but for the most general, a Timberwolf would be best.

Also no, you would never take a Dire Wolf or an Atlas. Ever. That's just dumb.

People arent even bringng up the advantage of XL engines that dont kill you from one side being cored... thats HUGE using a side of your mech as a shield.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Sable, on 27 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

The 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Direwolf some people have tried to use performs much worse because it can't do the jumping it needs to in order to avoid return fire. (also broken CT hitbox)

You can be an extremely effective sniper without jumping. The problem with the Dire Wolf is how slow it is, so if you peek around cover and get your shots off, your gonna get alot of return fire by the time you back around cover.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Shakespeare, on 27 June 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

JJ nerf might make it more difficult for that sort of comp, but 4x3 isn't going to change anything except the chassis. 12-man groups are already practicing with those restrictions in place. You know what you get? 3 Victors, 3 CTF-3Ds, 3 SHDs, 3 Jenners. 6-9 jump-snipers with a wolfpack to swarm in and distract + clean up.

It's very effective. It's very boring. 4x3 will not save you.

The top teams will cling to what they think is best, until another team figures out something else that works and they get rolled enough times by it. The real question is, are there any top teams out there with the willingness and determination to try and invent thier own meta? Or will they copy and paste and just copy everyone else and try and beat them at thier own game which happens most of the time.

[Adiuvo]

Alwrath, on 27 June 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

The top teams will cling to what they think is best, until another team figures out something else that works and they get rolled enough times by it. The real question is, are there any top teams out there with the willingness and determination to try and invent thier own meta? Or will they copy and paste and just copy everyone else and try and beat them at thier own game which happens most of the time.

You're drastically underestimating the amount of experimentation that goes on between top teams.

Problem is that the same thing as always is the most effective, bar none.

CSJ is trying some things with lasers but I doubt it will result in anything.

[JigglyMoobs]

Varent, on 27 June 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Sorta a no brainer.



Not really. Doesnt roll damage as well, runs hotter, and cant block shots with one of its arms if it slife depended on it. The only real advantage is mobility and a slightly higher alpha.

The overall strength still heavily sits in the dragon slayers corner by far.

Once you elite it with the better torso twist it tanks like a champ, and unlike the victor, you don't die when your st goes.

Heat is easy to deal with -just shoot single ppc gauss combos until you have a chance to recover.

And then there is the way it moves over terrain compared to a victor. Way better. Its not just the speed but also being in a lower weight class. Its going to significantly change some of the tactics in some maps.

[MischiefSC]

You can pug poptart in a Twolf but it won't last in competitive matches. If you know what you're doing to you hit its CT from the sides - it simply can't tank damage against other players who know what they're doing.

The Dragonslayer is the peak still. Fall damage won't change that - you just save a tiny burst for the last moment of your fall. it can tank damage on the left and shoot with the right. When it throws the arm shield at you the CT is covered. It simply has more survivability.

Any tournament involving team drops is going to be DS heavy. I don't think you'll see any Timber Wolves in serious tournaments unless the hitboxes get fixed. It's like the Battlemaster; even if it turns sideways you can still shoot the CT. This absolutely eliminates every other advantage it may have.

[YueFei]

Adiuvo, on 27 June 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

On Crimson Strait you probably would have just seen something like 10 733Cs with 2 Embers, or even 12 733Cs... it would have been a pretty crappy match, whatever the case.

=/

Just goes to show how badly PGI failed in delivering on Role Warfare, which was supposed to prevent a tonnage race like that.

[Adiuvo]

MischiefSC, on 27 June 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

You can pug poptart in a Twolf but it won't last in competitive matches. If you know what you're doing to you hit its CT from the sides - it simply can't tank damage against other players who know what they're doing.

The Dragonslayer is the peak still. Fall damage won't change that - you just save a tiny burst for the last moment of your fall. it can tank damage on the left and shoot with the right. When it throws the arm shield at you the CT is covered. It simply has more survivability.

Any tournament involving team drops is going to be DS heavy. I don't think you'll see any Timber Wolves in serious tournaments unless the hitboxes get fixed. It's like the Battlemaster; even if it turns sideways you can still shoot the CT. This absolutely eliminates every other advantage it may have.

They really aren't that bad. Many existing tournament players (and winners) have said as much.

[Gas Guzzler]

What an elitist thread.

Awesome's are the best mechs for competitive play, obviously.

[Damocles69]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 June 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

What an elitist thread.

Awesome's are the best mechs for competitive play, obviously.

Clearly!!!!

[Odins Fist]

Watchout for the TimberTarts

Really the TimberTart only has "mobility" over the older top I.S. Tart Mechs.
That and a XL engine that doesn't go POP with the loss of one side torso.

Edited by Odins Fist, 27 June 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Adiuvo, on 27 June 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

They really aren't that bad. Many existing tournament players (and winners) have said as much.

Yep. I've been playing against plenty of good players. Shielding was bad until you unlocked the basic torso twist efficiencies then it became fine.


Now if only the game would let me stomp Adi with my mech legs, it would be perfect.

[HBizzle]

SirLANsalot, on 26 June 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

If anyone worth there salt, is going to take one mech, unable to change, on more then 20 matches, they would take a balanced mech. Meta gauss/ppc is horrid on brawler/short range maps, and overall just hates life when a brawl breaks out. Its good for range/poke sniping, but sucks up close against a DPS/brawl mech.

As such a Dire/Atlas with a ballistic/LRM/energy balanced build, will fair better on a longer "fight" then one that is a meta. Reason being, he can fight on any map, on any terrain, at any range.

Meta Builds can do this too.

[Zensei]

i have never piloted a clan mech so I am unqualified to answer on all mechs but still elite

[Mystere]

kamiko kross, on 27 June 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

OP, don't fuel their egos EVEN more by calling them elite.

When I hear the word "elite" I think of things the British SAS, Mensa, or MIT.

For a video game, I just laugh.

Elkfire, on 27 June 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

And try to tone down the bootlicking, it's embarrassing for all of us.

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 27 June 2014 - 03:33 PM.