30 replies to this topic

[DarkMetalBlade]

At first, I was having lots of doubts when they first announced this system. But once I got to see what it is on the test servers, most of my doubts went away. There wasn't any considerable wait times in between matches, & there was a great increase in match quality, as in, there were more matches that went down to the wire. This'll help improve this game, even if it is only for a bit.

Mind you, this isn't going to stop those ROFLStomps, & quite frankly, if one side ends up making a critical mistake, & the other side capitalizes on it, or if one side makes a brilliant tactical move/decision, this is bound to happen in one way or another.

[Willard Phule]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 June 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Now, what I do know? The few 4x3 games I played? The dynamics of the fights were much improved. No 'hill of 9 poptarts' going on. No 800 tons of raw assault mech insanity on one team and not the other. No scads of light mechs running around like headless chickens (or well organized killer swarms). Medium mechs had a solid place. You had an idea of what you could expect, but more importantly the forced weight class variety also brought about a huge increase in individual mech variety as well. It all lead to a very positive gameplay shift.

Keep in mind that was the test server....a completely different flavor of player there.

My biggest fear is that unless they do something to separate players by skill, some sort of level thing...scrap this Elo garbage...we're going to end up with 3 Trial Assaults and 3 Trial Heavies every single match in the PUG.

[Sprouticus]

Willard Phule, on 27 June 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Keep in mind that was the test server....a completely different flavor of player there.

My biggest fear is that unless they do something to separate players by skill, some sort of level thing...scrap this Elo garbage...we're going to end up with 3 Trial Assaults and 3 Trial Heavies every single match in the PUG.

As long as it is both sides, who cares. Mediums and lights will clean up.

[FupDup]

The answer is that no, we do not need it. However, we're going to get it anyways, because the long-lost design pillar of Role Warfare was never constructed and PGI seems to have forgotten about it entirely. So, instead of balancing the weight classes directly, they're just going to force you to have 3 mechs from each class on your team every single match.

[Mordin Ashe]

I want 4x3 games. I don't want games with 7 assaults, I don't want games with 8 jumpsnipers and 4 embers. I want games faster and more mediums (and a bit of extra lights) are the way to do that.

[Aresye]

Appogee, on 27 June 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

MWLL also had a good payment scaling system, in which lighter Mechs got more CBills when they killed heavier Mechs.

^This. Absolutely this.

Bring back repair/rearm, and implement a tonnage based CBill multiplier.

What's that? Want to pilot an assault? Well you better be a good assault pilot and do some respectable damage and kills, else your repair/rearm costs will start exceeding your money earned because you keep dying and doing nothing for the team as an assault.

What's that? You're a light? You're probably going to die a lot anyway, so you probably need some extra CBills for the repair/rearm. I'll tell you what. You kill a heavy or an assault and watch the money trickle in, with plenty left over after repair/rearm.

Players that want to earn more CBills will naturally flock to the light and medium mechs for the grind. What we have now is too much emphasis on kills/damage/assists, so people will obviously go with heavies and assaults because it allows them to get more kills, more damage, and stay alive longer.

Edited by Aresye, 27 June 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[Naduk]

there is only one thing bad about 3x4
no more stiner scout lance

3's are sorely needed
for that breif time that it was working when they first launched it, it was amazing, such close games
even the games that went 12-0 were still fun because you know you simply lost / were out played
you were not 6 assualts vs 0 assualts at the start of the match, out tonned by over 500 tons is not even close to fair
it happens all the time too 4x3 cannot come fast enough

i have seen teams with litterly NOTHING under 65 tons on their team vs teams with nothing over 60 tons
the results are devestating to teams with the less tonnage
i have been on both sides of that fence and it sucks both ways, for the advantage team its usualy only one squad that gets all the score as they simply dont need to try

when it would take your entire team to kill one lance of the enemy purely based of weight, you know something is wrong

[Dunning Kruger Effect]

Quote

Setting aside for a moment the fact that you are named after a hentai about a boy who transforms into a lesbian magical school girl....

I find it interesting you instantly assumed he was named after an obscure Japanese schoolkid hentai rather than simply thought he was calling himself "fighter" or "warrior" in German.

[Thorn Hallis]

Dunning Kruger Effect, on 27 June 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I find it interesting you instantly assumed he was named after an obscure Japanese schoolkid hentai rather than simply thought he was calling himself "fighter" or "warrior" in German.

Because he doesn't. Otherwise his name would be "Kämpfer". And yes, the ä matters.

[MischiefSC]

Weight matching just means everyone moves to heavies/assaults. The basic concept of Battletech and the whole purpose of different mech classes was that most were mediums for example.

Having lights, mediums and heavy in equal measure every match means that builds like light hunters, scouts, flankers and support are certain to have a use every match. A light is crap to pilot in pugs because the other team is almost all assaults and heavies. If it's half lights and mediums suddenly the value of your light goes up - you're needed. Same with mediums; you can chase lights and threaten heavies and assaults.

It creates role warfare. Trying to create something like role warfare by, what, giving lights a bonus when they do something Light-ish isn't going to work unless it's way unbalanced for the reward a heavy gets for shooting stuff. There's still no real motivation to play a light, because the other team will be mostly assaults/heavies.

mediums are a workhorse mech design. Flexible, capable of addressing a lot of different tactical situations. Fast and carrying more firepower they can hunt lights with the right loadout and harass/backstab heavies and assaults. All of which is pointless though if the other team is a blob of 8 assaults and 4 heavies - now you're just a 12 year old trying to play pro football.

It'll shave a good 100+ tons worth of weapons off every match, extending TTK average per match and open up the tactical options.

If the game is just going to be assaults/heavies slugging it out with max firepower and the odd Shawk pulling kills off the fringe then there needs to be some balance between mech classes. Repair/rearm would be awesome, but most people would cry tears of blood to find that taking a max-tech Assault and dying means you not only didn't make money but lost 200k. People who bought the clan packs would sob into their pillows and rage when they realize that a trashed Twolf with CERPPCs and Gauss would set them back a light mech in repairs.

3x4 is an excellent solution for game balance across a number of factors. The truth is many people don't want 'balance'. They want the feeling that they have an advantage. They like the idea of things like role warfare but when presented with it really just want to play assaults while everyone else plays a stock medium.

Welcome to 3x4. You can be guaranteed that in every single match there are 3 lights waiting hopefully and expectantly for you to take one of your teams 3 Assaults off alone, so they can wolfpack and slaughter you. There are 3 mediums who are either hunting those lights or sticking with the heavies/assaults for a solid support role. There are 3 heavies and 3 assaults who are absolutely paying attention to the light/medium builds on their team so they know what support they're going to have.

There are also going to be a lot of matches where people try to drop like they did with things as they are now, where your team is this huge ball of slow moving heavily armored firepower with scattered JJs. They are going to be clumsy, fumbling and people will lose their **** and say that it's all terrible and no fun - because they have to think about how they fit into their teams 12 people, or they're going to get rolled again and again and again.

Which guy are you going to be?

[Lt Badger]

MischiefSC, on 28 June 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

Welcome to 3x4. You can be guaranteed that in every single match there are 3 lights waiting hopefully and expectantly for you to take one of your teams 3 Assaults off alone, so they can wolfpack and slaughter you. There are 3 mediums who are either hunting those lights or sticking with the heavies/assaults for a solid support role. There are 3 heavies and 3 assaults who are absolutely paying attention to the light/medium builds on their team so they know what support they're going to have.

There are also going to be a lot of matches where people try to drop like they did with things as they are now, where your team is this huge ball of slow moving heavily armored firepower with scattered JJs. They are going to be clumsy, fumbling and people will lose their **** and say that it's all terrible and no fun - because they have to think about how they fit into their teams 12 people, or they're going to get rolled again and again and again.

Which guy are you going to be?

thats i´m worried about, no room for improvisation, u´re damn to play your role in a team and it gets boring with the time

lets take a look from another side
we´ve three game modes: conquest, skirmish and assault

conquest: run and cap as much as u can and stay alive, it does make not really sense to play it with an assault or slow heavy

skirmish: take as much firepower and armor as u can to kill as much as u can, u have room to operate with meds and lights but the first choice are mostly assaults and heavies, its opposite to conquest in my eyes

assault: destroy enemy team or cap their base, many tactical capabilities for each of classes BUT since turrets it has changed to skirmish with "red zones" i.e. more assaults and heavies istead of meds and lights

apart from game modes, PGI has changed the lrms and its better now to get a big mech equipt with lrms and "push the button to win" lrming whole map than get lrmed.


both changes, turrets and lrms, have lead the player to use more assaults and fight in long range distance and now want PGI forcibly to reduce quantity of assaults in game with those 4x3?

how long would u wait trying to join conquest with your light or med if no one want to play it with assault?
how long would u wait trying to join skirmish with your assault knowing that many another assaults want to play also?

its not better to rebalancing the game again than reduce the choice possibillity which mech and how do u want to play?

simply reduce the speed of lrms to original value and make another assault mode without turrets, that should help


btw, i think in few months we will not see any IS mech on the battlefield....

Edited by Lt Badger, 28 June 2014 - 09:59 AM.