63 replies to this topic

[Soulblight]

Dear Mr. Censor, could you leave this discussion for once, even if you dont agree ??


Buff all mediums with a rolebonus

- +10%more heat dissipation
- 3% faster across the board

Reason:

Medium suffer from the armor of heavies and the fast mechs in the light class. mediums dont have a role in this game. Heavies can tank better-. ölight are btter scouts AND better at getting behind enemies and finish them off

[Foxfire]

The problem is that the maps are too small and cramped and Mediums don't have a sufficient speed and maneuverability increase over heavies.

If Heavies were slower(or mediums faster) and maps were larger, thus putting a larger emphasis on mobility, then you will see Mediums filling a role other than either slow light or small heavy.

[TimePeriod]

The issue here is quite simple.

Skill.

If you don't know how to pilot a specific 'Mech then you shouldn't use it. Go back to meta or find a new 'Mech which might suit you better. (Thou, if you pilot the Awesome like me, I would consider an asylum instead ~ But who is counting)

[Kitane]

TimePeriod, on 28 June 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

The issue here is quite simple.

Skill.

If you don't know how to pilot a specific 'Mech then you shouldn't use it. Go back to meta or find a new 'Mech which might suit you better. (Thou, if you pilot the Awesome like me, I would consider an asylum instead ~ But who is counting)

Better yet, they should try to learn it.

Soulblight, on 28 June 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Dear Mr. Censor, could you leave this discussion for once, even if you dont agree ??


Buff all mediums with a rolebonus

- +10%more heat dissipation
- 3% faster across the board

Reason:

Medium suffer from the armor of heavies and the fast mechs in the light class. mediums dont have a role in this game. Heavies can tank better-. ölight are btter scouts AND better at getting behind enemies and finish them off

OP, one of (many) reasons why mediums suffer is a high agility of all classes in the game. Their targets simply turn around too fast.
Imho it would be better if all agility related pilot skills were maxed at current unskilled value of the mech and unskilled mechs were less maneuverable than current stock versions - pilots are just learning them after all.

Another one is a botched match making. Even with 3/3/3/3 matchmaker 50% of their enemies will have superior combat power, 25% will be comparable and 25% (arguably) weaker. So still a disadvantage. Now it is like 76%/12%/12%..

The weight based match making used to be much more promising...

[Jman5]

Foxfire, on 28 June 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

The problem is that the maps are too small and cramped and Mediums don't have a sufficient speed and maneuverability increase over heavies.

If Heavies were slower(or mediums faster) and maps were larger, thus putting a larger emphasis on mobility, then you will see Mediums filling a role other than either slow light or small heavy.

Yeah. Just to put this in perspective for people. A 75 ton timberwolf literally goes the same speed as most of my hunchback builds. With max engine I can go 98 kph vs timberwolf's 89.1. So best case scenario I am gaining about 2.5 meters per second over him. In a chase, It would take me about 2 1/2 minutes to get out of range of his streaks.

Edited by Jman5, 28 June 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[DaZur]

"Please buff my Yugo so I don't feel so inadequate next to the Lamborghini"...

Repeat after me: Nothing needs to be buffed... Nothing needs to be nerfed... MW:O needs to give Mediums something to do besides be Heavy and Assault whipping posts.

I understand your point... I really do. Mediums are the proverbial red headed step children of MW:O... They are neither as fast as lights nor as heavily armored or armed as heavies and assaults.

MW:O needs smart mission design to give mediums a reason to exist on a battlefield that the other classes don't overshadow.

Mediums need purpose not a buff...

[Malorish]

DaZur, on 28 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

"Please buff my Yugo so I don't feel so inadequate next to the Lamborghini"...

Repeat after me: Nothing needs to be buffed... Nothing needs to be nerfed... MW:O needs to give Mediums something to do besides be Heavy and Assault whipping posts.

I understand your point... I really do. Mediums are the proverbial red headed step children of MW:O... They are neither as fast as lights nor as heavily armored or armed as heavies and assaults.

MW:O needs smart mission design to give mediums a reason to exist on a battlefield that the other classes don't overshadow.

Mediums need purpose not a buff...

Going to disagree here. ALL long range weapons need both damage and range nerfs.

The problem is that the range of engagement is too large for Mediums to be able to compete. They can't pack the PPC/AC/Gauss combos that the Heavies can (and to a limited extent they also can't really LRM boat). Because the range of engagement is so large, their minor speed and maneuverability advantage over a heavy mech are essentially meaningless.

With the introduction of Clan mechs (and their increased DPS and range), this has absolutely savaged the IS mediums (and lights too - including clan lights, but for different reasons).

Right now MWO is a one dimensional game: Sniper/Poptart/LRM Boat (at lower levels) for 70% of the game until one side has a significant numbers advantage, then a limited brawling phase that's essentially just a cleanup.

Mechs simply aren't durable/fast enough against the current weaponry to close distances quickly enough to engage in brawls. Those that can carry the heaviest PP FLD or DPS configurations in conjunction with higher armor values win the day.

Everyone else is just C-bill fodder for them. And it's frustrating to many players (most of whom can't articulate what's wrong, they just know something is broken and scream "nerf this, nerf that, buff this, buff that").

Edited by Malorish, 28 June 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[FupDup]

The best buff to mediums would be to design the game such that farming kills and/or assists wasn't the only viable way to make a living.


That, and make them not be the size of assault mechs.

[Biglead]

Soulblight, on 28 June 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Dear Mr. Censor, could you leave this discussion for once, even if you dont agree ??


Buff all mediums with a rolebonus

- +10%more heat dissipation
- 3% faster across the board

Reason:

Medium suffer from the armor of heavies and the fast mechs in the light class. mediums dont have a role in this game. Heavies can tank better-. ölight are btter scouts AND better at getting behind enemies and finish them off

Wolverine 6k can equip a 375XL for 122kph tweaked...when has that ever been considered slow?

As for the heat...stop alpha striking.

[Fuggles]

i would actually remove speed tweak from heavies and assaults and replace it with some kind of a defensive bonus, maybe to internal structure strength or something. there needs to be a larger gap (or actually be a gap) between heavies and mediums.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Well when 3x4 finally gets setup, you guys can sit and wait 20 mins for every game, or you can grow a pair and dust off that medium and get a game going asap.

3x4 if it works (crosses fingers) will be where mediums can shine, because it won't be 1 medium vs a wall of 6 assaults, and 6 Madcat spamming noobtubes.

[DaZur]

Malorish, on 28 June 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Going to disagree here. ALL long range weapons need both damage and range nerfs.

The problem is that the range of engagement is too large for Mediums to be able to compete. They can't pack the PPC/AC/Gauss combos that the Heavies can (and to a limited extent they also can't really LRM boat). Because the range of engagement is so large, their minor speed and maneuverability advantage over a heavy mech are essentially meaningless.

No offense intended but are you saying condensing the battlefield would allow mediums the means to be competitive? If so, which is what I'm reading, your daft...

Humoring your premise, and let's reduce the effective engagement range down to 800 meters... That ranged onslaught you referenced now becomes a face melting bear hug... Oh, and what little speed and scale advantage (Yes, I know they're still too huge FuP) they had at range is completely mitigated and now they have absolutely no upside in contrast to those heavies and assaults... Welcome to the medium sized read-headed whipping-post zone...

You want mediums to be viable?

> Remove the speed tweaks on heavies and assaults as mentioned earlier by another astute member. Might also lower the engine caps on some heavies and assaults as well. As it stands, the present engine caps and speed tweaks allow heavies to overlap the mediums domain, rendering them obsolete... Why bring a medium when I can bring a speedy heavy with more armor and firepower.

> Scale them to more accurately match their tonnage (Your welcome FuP)

> Give Mediums something that the other classes can't do... give them meaning and value. This is done through smart mission design that cannot be accomplished by a light or a heavy. Harassment, interdiction, suppression etc..etc.. etc.. Create scenarios where they engage same / similar class mechs...

Fact is, we have "deathmatch" and "deathmatch with distractions" as our mission staple... Both of which favors the player who brings the biggest gun to the fight. Mediums are expected to toe up with heavies and assaults and at the end of the day, no "buff" is going to hide the fact that they cannot do it successfully... and to be honest. Shouldn't.

Every mech should have a job and every job should have a mech....

Edited by DaZur, 28 June 2014 - 07:16 PM.

[Impyrium]

Eh, a smart player can still rack up kills with a Hunchie, as I've said before. Nothing beats an AC20 when it comes to sploding things, so while the Hunchie will never fare well in straight up brawl or long range firefight, a smart player will stay out of sight, stick with the team then jump in when things have already heated up.

The general rule is: Mediums are support 'Mechs, not rambo 'Mechs. Work with your team, you can do well, but try and fight off 'Mechs on your own and you're screwed.

[MischiefSC]

Have you considered tking all non-mediums? Im sure that would work out well for you.

[MischiefSC]

Twasing aside, we already know the fix. Ask mr. shawk.

Increase hardpoints on mediums and remove the engine cap nerf they got. Hake their hitboxes smaller than heavies. Right now yhey are mostly the same sized targets with the same speed but less guns and armor.

[Kiiyor]

Soulblight, on 28 June 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Dear Mr. Censor, could you leave this discussion for once, even if you dont agree ??


Buff all mediums with a rolebonus

- +10%more heat dissipation
- 3% faster across the board

Reason:

Medium suffer from the armor of heavies and the fast mechs in the light class. mediums dont have a role in this game. Heavies can tank better-. ölight are btter scouts AND better at getting behind enemies and finish them off

Speeds are fine. I believe acceleration/deceleration and turn-ability needs a buff. It would help more with survivability, and peekin'.

[Prezimonto]

DaZur, on 28 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

"Please buff my Yugo so I don't feel so inadequate next to the Lamborghini"...

Repeat after me: Nothing needs to be buffed... Nothing needs to be nerfed... MW:O needs to give Mediums something to do besides be Heavy and Assault whipping posts.

I understand your point... I really do. Mediums are the proverbial red headed step children of MW:O... They are neither as fast as lights nor as heavily armored or armed as heavies and assaults.

MW:O needs smart mission design to give mediums a reason to exist on a battlefield that the other classes don't overshadow.

Mediums need purpose not a buff...

Medium's need something. Their whole point in the setting is cost efficiency. They're relatively cheap and usually jack of all trades master of none. That's really appealing in a real world setting where missions with a huge variety will be available, and the Mechs cost insane amounts of cash.

Nothing in this game encourages those attributes, in fact, they're liabilities. Lights are faster, better scouts. Heavies are able to carry more weapons and often have similar agility and survivability. Assaults are slower but huge weapons platforms with huge armor... that most mediums weapons have a hard time eating through (unlike Heavies).

So, I agree, mediums don't have anything to do, but nothing in this game suggests they'll every actually be given something practical to do.

[Jon Gotham]

Maybe the could make modules do different things depending on what mech they are mounted?
Lights could be more scout focused and have larger bonuses for using those modules.
Mediums could be able to equip every type of module but only have small bonuses.
Heavies could equip a limited range of modules.
Assaults would only be able to equip defensive style modules....

Mediums in that case would be the most flexible of all the classes, so if some was needed a medium could definitely do it wheresa a heavy couldn't.

One note on the speed and mobility issue-it feels very unfair when a heavy who has superior firepower and armour can match you for speed. Note they don't have to actually match you either-all they have to do is be CLOSE ENOUGH to keep you in gun trail.
There are several assaults that can do this too.......
I tried playing Atlai this past week and gave up because of being lrmed to oblivion-you feel too slow to evade them (oh and AMS-LOL). But on the flipside.....I felt like a god when faced by mediums.....

Whatever is done Assaults and heavies need to be slowed down but not at the cost of making them lrm bait even more, they do have a job to do after all.

[FupDup]

kamiko kross, on 28 June 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Maybe the could make modules do different things depending on what mech they are mounted?
...

I think that the module distinction should be based on the module slots themselves, rather than each whole weight class.

Basically, you'd have modules segregated into "types" from now on. Categories might include things like sensor modules, weapon mods, support, utility, etc. Mechs would be assigned module slot types based on what they were "built" to do. As an example, a Raven 3L might have mostly sensor mods with a support or two. An Adder would have purely weapon modules, however. Some mechs might get a "generic" module slot that can hold any mod; mediums might get 2 generic slots for extra flexibility.


Note that this would entail making all of the modules actually useful, particularly the currently lacking weapon mods. We also need more weapon mod types (like cooldowns, heat, damage, etc.). Also, weapon-specific mods like UAC jam rate reduction, Flamer heat induction to target, MG CoF removal/crit chance increase, LBX CoF tightening/crit increase, etc. etc.

Edited by FupDup, 28 June 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[KhanCipher]

i will keep saying this, but some people don't seem to get why just saying "L2P" isn't going to fix any balancing issues. Oh and watch the final match of the tournament (hell watch it all and see every single broken balance in the game) and try to tell me how the weapons and weight classes are balanced.