Jack Corbans Take on things
Changes to current Game Mechanics (Ideas)
Armor Values as given in MWO. Reason: With Armorvalues as given in MWO the overall Play stays the same as do the Gamemechanics
Ammo per ton should be doubled. Reason: With armorvalues doubled Ammo need to be doubled to keep mechs competetive and achieving the threatlevel they posses in BT
Quirks should be off. Reason: Quirks are a Bandaidfix for normal play to balance what is not to be balanced. They bring nothing worthwile to Stock.
Modules should be off. Reason: Modules bring possible variance into play where there should be none. Mechs in Stock should allways be the same.
Skilltree should be off Reason: Same as with Modules. Veteran Players should not have an advantage over new players.
Weapons should stay the same as they are in MWO currently Reason: With the current Heat system in place and the overall work involved in changing every weapon this will be a nogo for PGI. Also the weapons for the most part work good in my opinion.
Heatscale should stay as given by MWO Reason: Less work for PGI same as with weapons. Not to forget we want an enviroment only slightly different then the normal game modes.
Ghostheat should be off Reason: The idea behind Ghostheat was to get rid of pinpoint max alphas. Thos we do not have in Stock due to no customization. The few offenders like Awesome or HBK-4P are allready balanced due to their Single Heatsink nature.
Rewards should be on. Reason: we wish to integrate this mode into normal play so no rewards hinders that goal. Also it will deter possible players if there is nothing to gain.
The Rate of Fire should stay the same as in MWO. Reason: Changing it will not work with our goals. If people have to relearn everything they know that will turn them off.
Heromechs yes those that are Stock compatible, Champion Mechs in their Stock counterpart configuration yes, Trialmechs same as Championmechs. Reason: We are trying to achive Stock here either go full or we stop all together. If excluding some mechs for the first draft means achieving that goal then i think we should go for it.
Introduction of missing Variants like the Grand Dragon is a good way to pitch an monetization aspect to PGI so they have a reason to implement Variants they thought would not be viable for other gamemodes.
Tesunie’s Take on the list of goodness! (I support Rhaythe’s proposal.)
Changes to current Game Mechanics (Ideas)
Armor Values MWO or Classic BT: MW:O Armor values, for ease of transition.
Ammo per ton MWO or double: MW:) values. As much as I’d love to say double, I’d rather stay with MW:O’s ammo values. Makes transition easier and can make stock mode a good training place.
Quirks on/off: Either or. I’d rather Off, but On would help this be defined as a more training friendly area. I think that’s a good sales pitch for this mode, besides for hard core BT fans.
Modules on/off: Off. Makes this a better trainer, as most Modules are based on skill points. Levels the playing field. Not a big deal though.
Skill Tree on/off: Off. Makes this more friendly to new users.
Weapon changes MWO or back to BT Values: Same response as before. For ease of transition between Stock mode and Public, leave it MW:O values.
Ghostheat on/off: I’d love to say off. Depends on if PGI can toggle this off for Stock Mode separately with ease. Overall, not a big deal for stock mechs. Most don’t boat much besides med lasers (And LRMs).
Heatscale ala BT or current System: Love to say BT here, but for ease of transition and for the pitch of being used for training, MW:O’s heat scale. (Maybe we can show it needs more work!)
Heatsinks MWO or BT Values: Same response as above.
Slower RoF: No. Could be interesting, but I don’t think it would work for MW:O’s general population. Also, this would require a LOT of work on PGI’s end. A lot of weapons would need to be balanced for Stock mode only most likely. (And it would place certain weapons as more powerful than others. We’ve already made note on AC20s in stock modes.)
Rewards on/off: ON. Maybe reduced, but On.
Hero Mechs, Champion Mechs, Trial Mechs on/off: On. Champion and Trials would become auto-converted to stock. Most heros are lore based, so most of them are fine.
Introduction of missing variants, like DRG-1G: Yes. I agree with getting as many mechs and variants into the game as possible. I don’t care if there is another mech/variant that does the same thing. In Public, the quirks could be different. In Stock, they would be welcomed.
Its not some special RoF balance. Just 20% slower RoF across board, nothing more easy. Double ammo with have zero impact on tranzition. No one even really notice this.
They already said that quirks for them is easy. This is nothing different. Just editing the damn xml file. They have said that.
Rhaythe’s Proposal - Stock Mode as a Teaching Tool
NOTE: This section’s goals are slightly different than the ones above, so I’ve pulled it into its own area; the thinking is that this proposal focuses almost entirely on Stock Mode as the New Player experience and a teaching tool first, and an escape for BattleTech enthusiasts second.
One of the main differences is that this proposal keeps PGI-developed balancing tools (like heat-scale and quirks) in order to best acclimate new users to their existence.
Stock Mode as a New Player Experience
Benefits
Offers a relatively safe environment for new players to discover Mechwarrior Online
Provide a smaller lance-based or star-based system
Prevents the dynamically-changing “metagame” from destroying the new player experience
Provide a more authentic BattleTech representation within the Mechwarrior Online system
Provide an environment to stage “Lore-based” battles reflected in the BattleTech universe
Melding seamlessly with New Tutorial system
Initial matches versus bots and/or static turrets
Establishes basic movement skills, targeting, etc
New Player drops ONLY in stock; other game types disabled initially for first X matches
Valid Stock Modes:
IS Tech 1 versus IS Tech 1
Clan Stock versus Clan Stock
No IS Tech-2 Stock Compatibility for balance purposes
No Trial mechs in Stock mode, for similar reasons
Game Setup
Lance versus Lance (8 player mode)
2 Lance versus 2 Lance (16 player mode)
Star versus Star (10 player mode)
Avoiding “Yet Another Bucket” Paradigm
Include stock matches in standard game public queues
do not split the community yet again
Players not wanting to participate in stock matches simply deselect the game-type, as with any other mode.
Matchmaker should automatically dis-include any Tech-2 level mechs from stock mode for balance purposes
Players with the Stock mode selected at launch will be given a pop-up notification alerting them to their selection, and that their mech may be different when dropping into a game.
Perhaps show a “Loadout” tile during the “Searching for game” screen reflecting current loadout and potential Stock loadout for pilot familiarization
Popup should have a “Do not show this again” tick box to avoid user harassment
Smaller matches (4v4, 8v8, or 5v5) helps keep this game mode integrated into the normal matchmaker cycle while requiring a smaller population in order to launch a game
Minimal Development Effort Goals
Weapon values (Damage, heat, ROF, etc) should not be altered from standard game modes, so as to best prepare a new player for the mechlab and standard game modes
Quirks should remain in place for much the same reason
Existing map assets should be utilized for stock mode
Matchmaker need not factor skill level to the same extent as public queue, given the limited build nature of the stock mode
Heat-scale should remain the same, so as best to prepare the new player for the standard game modes.
Due to the smaller, lance-vs-lance or star-vs-star nature of these matches, so pre-existing maps should probably be discounted to Stock Mode (such as Alpine)
Reusing existing gamemodes from the standard queue (such as assault) would allow for Stock mode implementation without requiring the development of an entirely new facet of gameplay; Stock mode could easily exist on top of any existing game mode presently in Mechwarrior Online
Stretch Goals
Story-based stock campaign reflecting a 3025 storyline for IS or a pre-3049 storyline for Clan
Existing maps out-of-bounds reworked (only for stock mode) to support smaller drop numbers
Introduction of stock mode into Community Warfare
Tech-Level 2 specific mode
Tech-2 IS vs Clan stock matches
TygerLily:
My proposal keeps armor, heat system, weapon, heat sink values the same at MWO standard. I think Ghost Heat, Quirks, Modules/Consumable and Skill Trees should not be included. I think ammo should be doubled. Including info about the missing aspects at a later time provides the opportunity to give new players all the info at a layered pace (which I believe would be beneficial as this game has a lot of info).
Ghost, Quirks, Mod/Cons, and Skills also have in common that they are sort of added on aspects from MWO. I enjoy them greatly but without them the stock mode begins to look much more like the tabletop game. Adjusted values for armor, etc. simply modify what BT fans are already accustomed to being present.
Armor Values MWO or Classic BT
Armor values should stay at MWO level. Doubling them from TT increases time to kill thus giving players a better feeling that they are piloting a mammoth armored vehicle. Because players can aim their shots in MWO, rather than random hit locations in TT, having more armor is better for allowing players to make mistakes, play longer, etc.
This is especially true for Mechs like the Cicada or the Jagermech. Generally, most stock mechs have significantly lower armor values than they could supposedly mount anyway and those Mechs which do mount high values (Centurion, Kintaro) then have that aspect of a reason for choice.
Ammo per ton MWO or double
Ammo per ton should be doubled from current MWO values. Because armor values were doubled from TT but ammo count was not, some Mechs do not have enough ammo to punch through the armor on the field and are only useless because of their low ammo count: such as the Jagermechs and Catapults.
Extra ammo would let players play longer but does not change the fundamental aspect of on-the-fly resource management.
Quirks on/off
Quirks should be off. Since armor a values are generally lower across the board, pinpoint weapons are very powerful. Mechs like the Hunchback 4G already has a huge benefit from the innate nature of pinpoint weapons and it’s quirks would bolster it’s power further. Mechs like the Kintaro however have quirks for LRMs but all of it’s stock loadouts are generally SRM based.
From my understanding, the quirks are meant to balance IS Mechs to Clan Mechs AND in many cases reflect current popular builds (hence LRM quirks for Kintaros, etc.) and if the Stock 3025 isn’t going to include Clans then I would advise forgoing quirks. If the plan is to expand it to include Clans in the future, I would advise including them but maybe reworking them for their stock loadouts.
*Gonzo
In Future we can go with different Era including clans, but keep it stock and ASYMMETRICAL yeah, instead of quirks.
Modules on/off
Modules and Consumables should be off. We found that it required players to scout the enemy more because they could not use Seismic or UAVs. To be frank, nearly every Mech in the regular queue uses a standard selection of modules due to the power of their benefits. By excluding modules, all players are put on a level playing field which is what they seek from stock mechs.
Skill Tree on/off
Skill tree should be off. For similar reasons for no Modules/Consumables. The appeal of playing stocks is “use what you got,” or “make due.” By taking skill trees out of the equation everyone is on the same level from first time to veteran stock player.
Weapon changes MWO or back to BT Values
Weapon changes should be left at MWO values. I agree with Rhaythe, above, that this would best to prepare the new players for the standard game modes or to keep things familiar for veterans.
* Gonzo
Thing is that they broke balance. Stats was changed to fill custom. ML far too hot making Janners or Quickdraws unusable. Is just same thing as with ammo. And why we want double ammo.
Ghostheat on/off
Ghost heat should be off. The only ballistic affected by Ghost is the AC/20. Generally, all other ballistics are unaffected but benefit greatly from pin point damage/low heat in a low armor environment/high heat environment. This makes these weapon systems very powerful in stock play. Conversely, nearly all energy weapons are affected by Heat Scale. Removing it would then make energy weapons more powerful verse the ballistics but not too powerful because of harsher heat management requirements. Also, ammo in stock Mechs are generally placed in locations often very susceptible to ammo explosions.
Certain Mechs will benefit greatly such as Awesomes, Hunchback 4P, King Crab. However, without quirks of added armor and structure, these Mechs return to their weakness from before (large profile for Awesome, exposed shoulder for Hunchy, etc.) in exchange for their powerful loadouts.
Another way to think of it: with single heat sinks there is almost a built in heat scale. Once players move to standard modes and encounter heat scale it won’t be much different from stock (IE, knowing they can’t simply use alphastrike after alphastrike).
Heatscale ala BT or current System
The MWO heat system is best. It is a higher threshold before shutting down versus TT and allows for more combat for players.
Again, it would train new players for standard game modes.
Heatsinks MWO or BT Values?
MWO values should be used. We found that recovering from heat in the current system perfectly conveyed the feeling of the 3025 era of play.
Speed Tweak on/off
Speed Tweak should be off. This is only due to having the rest of the skill tree disabled.
Slower RoF
Rate of Fire should remain at MWO values to allow consistency between stock and standard modes.
Rewards on/off
Rewards should be on. So long as everyone is on a level playing field achievements such as gaining 8 kills I a match, or surviving with X% health left, etc. are still just as challenging and fun to earn!
Hero Mechs, Champion Mechs, Trial Mechs on/off
Heroes and Champions should be off. If Trials are to remain Champions in Stock 3025 then they should also be off. Heroes should be absent mainly due to lore purposes which is the main draw of the stock mode. Heroes and Champions should be disallowed because many of their “stocks” are often built with DHS, etc. This would give them a clear advantage and also generally depart from the canonical layouts; which, again, are one of the general main purposes for playing stock Mechs.
If trial Mechs are Champions then they should be disallowed on the same grounds. If they can be put in as stock Mechs of their particular variants then they should be allowed. I encourage this option to allow new players more options. Veterans likely won’t need them if the plan is to allow owned, customized Mechs from the regular queue to be automatically reverted to stock when playing this mode.
However, if that is not the case, and players must maintain a stable of unmodified Mechs, then Stock trials would be welcome by veteran players who may want to try the mode before spending Cbills to revert a Mech to stock on their own dime.
introduction of missing variants, like DRG-1G
Definitely include these variants! Stock Mech Eras was an event similar to Stock Mech Monday but allowed missing variants to be built using existing Mechs. It was very successful. Instead of making a mech to suit your playstyle, stock players often had to find a Mech that fit their playstyle (a cool aspect!) More options of chassis would, in essence, allow players a modicum of customization.
This would also alleviate the problem the of not including some MWO present variants which come stock with DHS.
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Gonzos view on things.
Changes to current Game Mechanics (Ideas)
Armor Values MWO or Classic BT
MWO values. It is most tested and we know it, it will not went too far from main pug life as well.
Ammo per ton MWO or double
It must go double, for balancing reasons. Mechs like Shadow, Wolverine are good and useable but needs little more ammo.
Quirks on/off
Quirks must to go off. For balancing reasons. What they did to SMM is buffing already powerful meks. And quirks are not even. Some chassis do benefit some not. They are made for custom madness, they do not fit at all in to stock mode.
Modules on/off
I would go off on that. But that is not deal breaker.
Skill Tree on/off
On. To not saperate too much from main. So would be possible to grind skill in stock as well. With the exception of speed tweak. Speed tweak I would turn off for original speeds of meks. Stock games are slower. Speed tweak not fit in it. Just make him not work in Stock Mode.
Weapon changes MWO or back to BT Values
Weapons must go back to BT values. They was changed just to fit better in to full custom game. MWO values is not something that is constant. And they are changing all the time weapons stats, to fit current meta. So those weapons value would be changing all the time in stock as well. And that would be worst. Stock is something different, its constant, it has not constantly changing meta. All changes they did to stats, influenced negatively on stock balance, making some chassis unusable. I know some not understand this, but really this is a must same as double ammo.
Ghostheat on/off
I opt for ON. I know most of you hate it, but thats will touch only several chassis anyway. GH was introduced to prevent PPFLD. While we do not have many meks that can do that, we have a few. Stock mode do not introduce solution to PPFLD, but indeed problem is far smaller because of non custom route. But we still got some ML Hunch beast, Awesome, King Grabs. And who knows what will bring tomorrow, in BT we got many boating meks, that can be just same issue as in main custom mode, we need to think ahead. So I would keep GH band aid, until they introduce real solution like Homeless Bill idea for instance. Meks affected by GH are so few and there are powerful enough, even with GH.
Heatscale ala BT or current System
I vote NO.
Sure we would love some real BT heat scale, instead of mana bar. But that is a no go to ask. They will do it or not for main. Its just saems far, far too much work to ask, at the start at least. On the side note that would alienate Stock mode from rest of the game too much. So if so, heat scale for everybody, or not at all.
Heatsinks MWO or BT Values?
Im not really sure what the difference real is. I heard doubles are not real doubles, but heard also that after full skill up they are like almost true doubles.
.
Slower RoF
I vote yes.
While that is not a break deal, I believe slower RoF will fit better to stock nature. They doubled armor, structure. Yet they 3x-10x RoF. So lowering globally RoF by 20% sounds reasonable.
Rewards on/off
Of course ON.
Hero Mechs, Champion Mechs, Trial Mechs on/off
Off. Trials and champions reverted to stock if something. Some Heros are coming in tech 2, some in tech 1. I would off them all for clear view reason. In lore they are supposed to be one for whole galaxy anyway. For me they do not fit well in to stock idea.
Introduction of missing variants, like DRG-1G
Sure more, better.
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Xanderpeach, on 09 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:
Хотя грифин всё равно хорошая машина, даже на бейзике. Даже без квирков, а шадоухока особо никто не берёт из-за его брони. Тут уж не уверен что квирки помогут. В плане даже Осома со всеми его квирками берут и водят, от силы 4 человека. Слишком ситуационный. Вот что с Ханчбэком делать этого я не знаю.... он даже на мой взгляд, через чур сильный.
