46 replies to this topic

[Ngamok]

JTAlweezy, on 01 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Good job providing some great feedback, troll.

Well, here is feedback. Other than some certain builds being super cheese, the clan mechs aren't Pay 2 Win and you'll be seeing Clan Trial mechs soon as well as the release of these mechs for C-Bills starting in August with the Kit Fox and Nova and then 2 every month till November.

[qki]

We've been over this.

There is no p2w involved. Just because the "premium" customers get access to more toys, doesn't mean theay are getting an advantage over people who will not (or cannot) pay.

Clan tech and mechs come with enough quirks to keep them balanced. And the game is in a place, where using clan or IS equipment is a legitimate question, and clan tech is not simply 246% strictly superior to IS. In fact, people are likely to argue, that IS has several distinct advantages over clan equipment.

[Lootee]

Koniving, on 01 July 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

On an interesting side note... PGI's command chair release on omnitech rules also directly made several references to Inner Sphere Omnimechs.

<.<; They won't have clan tech, but hey.. An IS mech locked to SHS or DHS, fixed structure/armor/engine with omnipods.
Those are coming.. but if we do a 1 to 1 time scale those will come in a year or two.

On the bright side this may finally give PGI the needed kick in the butt to overhaul the heat system so that SHS are viable.

Otherwise who in their right mind would buy an Owens or Strider omnimech that is permanently stuck with SHS?

[Scratx]

JTAlweezy, on 01 July 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

I wouldn't say they are pay to win, if I could equip my IS mech with the same equipment, but allowing only purchases to get the benefits of engine upgrades and weapons upgrads is pay to win. I don't see any reason to play this game till they release the clan tech for IS mechs to level the playing field. Also, even forbes thinks they are out of their mind lol.

http://www.forbes.co...0-golden-mechs/

You're out of your mind if you think giving IS mechs the same weapons clan mechs use is balance. You'll soon see Cataphracts holding 40 tons of clan-tech weapons in a 75t frame. Mini-Dire Wolf with Jumpjets anyone?

No, half the reason clan-tech is balanced right now is because of the restrictions clan mechs comes with. You strip those out, BOOM. Game over, all IS weapons except PPFLD ACs and standard PPCs die a horrible death and the meta becomes all about stuffing clantech weapons in your IS chassis. IS LRMs might survive too because they actually have some advantages over clan LRMs, but...

Look, mixtech is just a horrible idea.

( and btw, we know about that forbes article and actually don't see what about it is relevant to the topic )

[GoManGo]

JT you should rename this topic (CLAN KNIGHTS UNITE) I don't agree the clan mechs are not OP or P2Win but its very close to stepping over that line.________________P2WIN.

But for me there are more pressing issues with MWO that keep me from playing full time= lack of good meta,lack of leagues,lack of savable configurations for mechlab,no analog joystick support,YADA YADA YADA and no lobby/social/functions.

So I really don't care about clan mech superiority I =WANT THE DAMM GAME FIXED!!!!!!! FIRST!!!!!! so I can just have fun playing it=MWO.

[Koniving]

PanchoTortilla, on 01 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

On the bright side this may finally give PGI the needed kick in the butt to overhaul the heat system so that SHS are viable.

Otherwise who in their right mind would buy an Owens or Strider omnimech that is permanently stuck with SHS?

Only way they can make them tangible/viable is to stop with this rising heat cap. With one locked threshold for overheat, both SHS and DHS are on a much more fair playing field.

Then they can toy with other options, such as a slightly higher max heat threshold for SHS while DHS keeps 30 threshold.
Wanna Alpha, pop in the SHS. Wanna fight DPS, pop in the DHS.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cookiemonter669, on 01 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Adjust your playing style to counter the clans.

IS ballistics are superior to the clan ones.

Free tip: something with AC20

IS versatility is also far better, since you can customize your core, like engine speed, etc. You got any idea how much the Warhawk is boned by having 10 additional hardlocked DHS? Not just to it's weapon loadout but to their survivability, as if someone takes your RT, any ballistic or missiles and their ammo pretty much just went away. You might have a couple energy in the LA, but that is it. The RT is every bit the prime target on most builds that it is on an Atlas.

Lights are moving at the speed of most IS Mediums, and their Assaults are not only generally glacially slow, but low on the agility scale, too. The Stormcrow and TWolf are remotely "Top Tier" mechs. And While the TWolf may be a little OP in the TimberTart role that "Compys" want to run, it really has not dominated using any other build, although it is a dang good, versatile and well balanced Heavy Mech. The Stormcrow is very strong, but it's CT, largely DoT arsenal and lack of JJs keep it from being "better" than the Shadowhawk, and probably sits somewhere between the Shad and the Griffin/Centurion in rankings.

Kitfox has a nice little niche as a Shield and NARC'er, but is not exactly putting the fear of God into IS Lights, Adder and Summoner are supremely limited, though workable. Direwhale? Has one "Meta" build, and while capable of a large amount of firepower is almost a bloody turret it's so immobile, which combined with DoT weapons and a huge bloody CT, means it has the guns, but not really the durability to be some fearsome beast.

The Nova? Fun design, horribly strapped for weapon tonnage, with mediocre speed and horrible hitboxes. JJs help, but since 95% carry all their firepower (sans a few MG, or possible an AC.... in which case it has nearly no back up weaponry) in their arms, are extremely easy to neuter, though if you ignore one, in short bursts, they can put out some nice damage.

Moral of the story largely being that most people need to stop panicking, actually study their opponents, and adapt. Because they are hardly the unstoppable ogre hordes of fluff, TT and lore.

And yes, I have all my TWolvs, Stormcrows, Summoners and Warhawks at least fully elited and unlocked, though on a couple mastered.

[Spike Brave]

Everything gets called P2W or OP when it's popular. Lots of players driving clan mechs now. They aren't getting a lot of kills because they are OP or P2W. It's simply because there is a bunch of them running around right now. Happens everytime they add something new and lots of people play the new stuff.

I remember when I was rolling around in my Battlemaster before they went open for C-bills, a lot of people were screaming P2W about my OP Battlemaster. Something happened with the firestarters when they came out.

I'm not seeing anything in the matches I'm playing that indicates P2W. In fact, alot of the IS mechs are doing awesome. I'd rather be in my Jenner than a clan light any day.

[Roland]

CapperDeluxe, on 01 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

For the record, its not Pay 2 Win. Its Pay To Get Things A Few Months Early.

I don't know why people keep saying this when it's so clearly false.
Totally aside from whether the current clan mechs are P2W (you can argue that all you want among yourselves), the suggestion here that you are making is totally wrong.

The fact that a game would be made not P2W at somet point in the future does not in any way change the fact that it is P2W today.

This has been explained so many times, so clearly, that I cannot understand why people keep repeating it since it's so obviously wrong.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 01 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I don't know why people keep saying this when it's so clearly false.
Totally aside from whether the current clan mechs are P2W (you can argue that all you want among yourselves), the suggestion here that you are making is totally wrong.

The fact that a game would be made not P2W at somet point in the future does not in any way change the fact that it is P2W today.

This has been explained so many times, so clearly, that I cannot understand why people keep repeating it since it's so obviously wrong.

And that take shows what you want to read into it.

You see, you are reading it, from your perspective, that they indeed, ARE P2W, and thus, being delayed, won't change that. It's just P2W and discrimination, as it were.

The viewpoint of the OP you quoted, mine and many others, is that they in fact , are NOT P2W, and thus, indeed, simply P4Early Access. If it's not P2W (and aside from possibly 2 builds, it pretty clearly is not, though some could use tweaks..in fact some need to be *gasp* BUFFED) now, then P4EA is really all it is and all the whining truly is simply because they cannot have access to all the toys, right this moment.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 July 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Sandpit]

Is this the new P2W thread? Should I post here or are we allt racking one of the other 42727207 threads about how the game is now P2W?

[EyeOne]

JTAlweezy, on 01 July 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

god you guys are all trolly fan boys, I love that about the mwo forums, obviously I was expecting the hate from a 7 month old article lol. Why do you think I reposted it?

Actually in this scenario you are the troll.

Roland, on 01 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

The fact that a game would be made not P2W at somet point in the future does not in any way change the fact that it is P2W today.

It's not even P2W today Roland. There.

[Bishop Steiner]

EyeOne, on 01 July 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Actually in this scenario you are the troll.

Sadly the usual defense when one has had their reasoning found lacking. Instead of being willing and able to own up and readjust PoV, it now becomes an exercise in obfuscating the matter by focusing on tangents and accusations.

Internet Psychology 101.

[Ph30nix]

you are also forgetting if they allow mix tech that means clans could use IS tech and that could mean they have to allow clan mechs to swap out engines but even with out that id still be scared

[Bishop Steiner]

Ph30nix, on 01 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

you are also forgetting if they allow mix tech that means clans could use IS tech and that could mean they have to allow clan mechs to swap out engines but even with out that id still be scared

Direwolf with 2 IS AC20, and IS PPCs for FLD and Lower heat a cause for concern? (Or IS lasers for far shorter burn times in any brawler builds, partly negating the mediocre hitboxes and need to stare that keep Clannies on the leash?)

A person making a Topic without REALLY considering the implications of what they are saying, on MWO? Impossibru!

[C E Dwyer]

Another founder bites the dust thread ?

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 01 July 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Another founder bites the dust thread ?

sorta looks like it.

It still amazes me how many people with Founders/Phoenix/Invasion tags seem to totally be unable to see "big picture". Yup, there are plenty of things to be irked about, but honestly, this is not even remotely one of them. IF, indeed it is actually game balance people are worried about, and not the much more plausible entitlement issues, though one would hope someone who has gone Founders/Phoenix already and dealt with the community whining over that, would not be prone to falling into that pattern.

[KamikazeRat]

to OP, no, mixing tech only rarely happens in books, not really in TT(to my limited knowledge of TT, haven't played in a while), although IS pilots will run captured clan mechs, and down the road, IS gets some cool tech that they reverse engineered from clans, and then the clans come up with new crap, and it gets kinda cool/weird

IS tech to come
http://www.sarna.net...avy_Gauss_Rifle
http://www.sarna.net...tary_Autocannon
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Gauss
http://www.sarna.net...e_X-Pulse_Laser
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_PPC
http://www.sarna.net...m_Range_Missile
http://www.sarna.net...Enhanced_LRM-20

Clans fire back
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/HAG_20
http://www.sarna.net...avy_Large_Laser
http://www.sarna.net...actical_Missile
http://www.sarna.net...i/Streak_LRM-20

granted alot of those will be iffy without some redesigning the current system (I.E. MRMs are dead-fire, like MWO SRMs, SRMs in TT have Guidance more like what we have as streak missles, streak systems in TT are a whole different animal that im not sure how it would work in MWO)

i would love a RAC5, like a UAC on meth

EDIT: also, since when the clans originally left the inner sphere, they took with them mechs, alot of second-line clan troops field old school designs that have been updated with clan tech....this is the closest you're going to get http://www.sarna.net/wiki/IIC

Edited by KamikazeRat, 01 July 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[JTAlweezy]

Bilbo, on 01 July 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

You'll never see clan tech for IS mechs. So...Bye, I guess.

lol guys like this dudes post, but its poeple like this that are driving away the fan base and causing pgi to lose money. I hope you know this. You represent the part of the community that does not care how pgi treats its customers, go troll someone eleses post.

[Sandpit]

JTAlweezy, on 01 August 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

lol guys like this dudes post, but its poeple like this that are driving away the fan base and causing pgi to lose money. I hope you know this. You represent the part of the community that does not care how pgi treats its customers, go troll someone eleses post.

no, not really. It's silly to post "do this or I quit" in the first place. Ever stop to think that you're not the only one who plays this game and maybe it doesn't revolve entirely around you?