47 replies to this topic

[Clydewinder]

Seems to be the case more often than not. If one team has more ECM than the other and especially if they have LRM to back it up, it seems like it's a massive uphill fight to hold on unless your whole team is cheez snipers.

Maybe that is how the matchmaker forces a loss when it needs you to lose?

[FupDup]

It's because of red triangles and target info, not Lurms (usually). No magical red doritos means that the pug overmind breaks down and loses its ability to focus-fire and shoot damaged body parts.

[Deathlike]

ECM does not guarantee a win on its own.

The actual test is to see how many "underhive" are on your team vs the opfor/enemy. Then you will know the results more often than not.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 June 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[Sandpit]

What they said lol

Seriously, ECM is far from the end all be all and has counters. It's much easier to create confusion and watch cohesion crumble when players not on voice comms are trying to coordinate and they lose one of the only identifying tools they have. It's less about ECM and players having the ability to easily communicate with one another during a fast-paced firefight.

[Hellcat420]

no ecm is not a guaranteed win. but ecm is a problem, its currently guardian ecm, angel ecm, and stealth armor all in one. they should either make it actual guardian ecm or give it the combined weight/crits of all 3 pieces of tech.

[Clydewinder]

I wonder if any actual telemetry data exists about ECM as pertains to win/loss.

I suspect that the numbers would be shocking.

[Deathlike]

Clydewinder, on 30 June 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

I wonder if any actual telemetry data exists about ECM as pertains to win/loss.

I suspect that the numbers would be shocking.

I tend to lean towards that more ECM does tend to cause things to fall in ECM's direction.

HOWEVER, if you understand how ECM works and counter it properly (either by the known ECM counter methods... or just killing the mech outright), it is not the boogeyman people make it out to be.

It's just that people don't use their brains to learn and understand what you have to do.

Despite this being the case, ECM does need to be reworked... for various reasons.

[Lynx7725]

I ran into a PUG last night that was a horror show. There was 5 ECM mechs with heavy LRM support. Basically, the entire friendly team could not communicate, could not share info, could not scout. Needless to say, it was uphill at the least, and in this case, a total wash.

There were other similar matches last night, heavy ECM with some LRM support. PUGs aren't very good at handling these situations.

I honestly don't mind one or two ECM on the field, but when 1/3 or more of the enemy brings ECM coverage, the effect stacks and multiplies very quickly. I can deal with a single or even a pair of ECM mechs; 5 ECM mechs working in concert -- which given the number, is not that difficult -- is a throwaway game.

[CycKath]

Its like having a disconnect on your team prior to match start. Its not an instant WIN button, but having less or no ECM against a side that has more/multiple does tend to stack the deck against you,

[Sandpit]

Point being, ECM isn't the true culprit, it's an easy scapegoat. The underlying issue is really the communication tools

[Lynx7725]

Sandpit, on 30 June 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Point being, ECM isn't the true culprit, it's an easy scapegoat. The underlying issue is really the communication tools

That's an oversimplification. Even if PGI gives us a perfect comms tool, the implementation of ECM which jams communications will still result in similar issues. And when multiple ECM stacks together, the effect multiplies quickly, rendering teamwork in PUGs difficult.

Note that I don't disagree with the implementation, ECM should make communications difficult. It's just that I don't have a good solution for this -- reworking ECM into something else might not be ideal, and artificially restricting it in PUG games might not work either.

[Arrogusss]

*If half your team is totally reliant on those little red triangles telling them where to or to not go, as they hide half the game...and a few on your team are hiding well in the back behind a ridge and behind a rock ready to press a button to fire LRMs off of another of their teamates risk (spotting). Then YES.. you will lose.
I pugged a game a few days ago where I called out (typed) "ECM raven e5, others)... 30 seconds passes and a little red triangle shows up halfway across the map. I peek over corner and leg the raven to see 2 ecm Atlas and at least 5 other mechs pushing hard and type "E5 Hotttt many"... the whole time no red triangles are showing up on the HUD but visually I can see them 350m out. I check map again and 3/4 team is already halfway across map chasing that one little triangle as 7 or 8 mechs crest the ridge and destroy me.
I spectated the last few short minutes of that game which we lost horribly.
People rely too much on red dots and triangles. People swarm for the easy kill and run off and leave you. People don't communicate. Too many people hide half the match thinking it will preserve their precious K/D ratio etc.. letting half the team get spots, cause damage and expose themselves, thinking that after the first half of team dies, the damaged enemy mechs will be easy kills; NOT a Winning Strategy everyone.
So the answer is yes, especially when OP Spamming LRM is involved and your own team has no ECM, or you have 1 ecm equipped mech halfway across the map single er ppc sniping instead of with your team shielding you, or countering the enemy ECM....
WALL OF TEXT srry

Edited by Arrogusss, 30 June 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[Belorion]

No...

[Agent 0 Fortune]

There is a certain Elo breakpoint were ECM effectiveness is reduced, because the game degenerates into poptarts. But typically yes, ECM wins games with balanced teams.

[ArmandTulsen]

The short answer is, yes.

The long answer is, yes they do.

[wanderer]

Sure. Why? Because PUGs rely on seeing targets.This can, at times be hilarious.

A team set up low on the side of Frozen City under ECM- and then had one guy bounce up and down on his jets so they'd see the lone, red triangle.

Entire team forms a column at mixed speed and arrows straight for him. Enemy team proceeds to obliterate each one as they line up and cross into a killzone, being just far enough away from the corner to be outside 200m.

They killed six of the team before any of them clued in, and of course then got rolled 0-12.

They cheerfully ignored me on chat going "Um, guys? I see like eight of them down there on visual, it's ECM TRAP TRAP TRAP" just after being obliterated going down around the corner and being the first to go in a Jenner. (can't do much when the first second is you losing a leg, after all)

Nope. No red triangles means nothing's there to many PUGs, and dense enough ECM will turn those players into drooling useless morons. And it only takes 2-3 of those to swing a game.

[Lynx7725]

wanderer, on 30 June 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

They cheerfully ignored me on chat going "Um, guys? I see like eight of them down there on visual, it's ECM TRAP TRAP TRAP" just after being obliterated going down around the corner and being the first to go in a Jenner. (can't do much when the first second is you losing a leg, after all)

Actually, it may not be them being dense. Chat comms from jammed mechs are not passed on to non-jammed mechs AFAIK. Not sure how the dead chats are handled though.

[Deathlike]

Lynx7725, on 30 June 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Actually, it may not be them being dense. Chat comms from jammed mechs are not passed on to non-jammed mechs AFAIK. Not sure how the dead chats are handled though.

That's not what happens... really.

[Jalthibuster]

My impression is that it's not that important for victory how many ecm the teams have, except one team got none, regardless how many the other team has. Than you're pretty ****** most times.

[Lynx7725]

Deathlike, on 30 June 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

That's not what happens... really.

Well, it's them being dense, but I'm fairly sure some of the chat gets blocked when you are alive but jammed...