162 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

So... you want the average of < 15% of Lights to shrink to < 10%.

I see.

Brother i think you are one of the best most sensible forum posters here.
But please tell me, what is this insistence people have with wanting more lights on the field?
It boggles me.

[ShinVector]

N0MAD, on 01 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Brother i think you are one of the best most sensible forum posters here.
But please tell me, what is this insistence people have with wanting more lights on the field?
It boggles me.

LORE... States that there should be more lights and mediums on the battlefield.
There is little to no incentive to run lights and mediums.. Hope that un-boggles you.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

This topic was brought up too early...it's all speculation at this point until we see what they actually implement on the live servers. We know what happened in the PTS...I was there, piloted lights with small jumps off the lowest ledges in Canyon and took leg damage such that after 4 of those, my legs were crit. Hopefully, what they implement tomorrow will not be so bad.

If it is bad, and some of you say that's good because then only the good pilots will be in lights...well, with the 3/3/3/3 implementation, that will increase wait times with fewer people interested in running a light. So, it could screw everyone if lights are made harder to play, because the Matchmaker needs an equal number to run smoothly. Yes, they have release valves in case numbers of each type are really off, but then what...we end up seeing the same kinds of assault/heavy numbers that we had before? Yeah, good thinking...let's hope lights totally get nerfed.

ShinVector, on 01 July 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

LORE... States that there should be more lights and mediums on the battlefield.
There is little to no incentive to run lights and mediums.. Hope that un-boggles you.

...and the 3/3/3/3 weight balancing...lights need to be closer to 25% in the queue or the matchmaker will get bogged down...

[Deathlike]

N0MAD, on 01 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Brother i think you are one of the best most sensible forum posters here.
But please tell me, what is this insistence people have with wanting more lights on the field?
It boggles me.

For the absence of Role Warfare (another PGI Lostech concept), there needs to be reasons to field them. As much as people don't use them properly (let alone know how to drive them), there was some use to annoy Assaults to death... if only because they don't know how to react more often than not.

Also, Lights are the underdogs... and I like underdogs. It's hard to root for anything bigger at this point in time.

[FupDup]

Alexandrix, on 01 July 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

That's the most hilarious/sad thing about the fall damage change.It will probably end up pooping on everyone BUT the intended targets.That's how PGI's round about,bassackwards "fixes" work.

They don't really want to enact a real change directly to the source of the problem.Better to just beat around the bush until there are so many band aid and patch work fixes that the game is clogged with so many convoluted and undocumented mechanics,no one knows which way is up.

----

I have immortalized this concept into meme format:

[Koniving]

Monkey Lover, on 01 July 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

Well the summorer is going to be more worthless. It already take leg damage worse than any mech i have owned. Seeing its a "heavy" its going to be high on the leg dmg scale.

Ever softened your landings by saving some fuel for the end? I've fallen from the tallest buildings in Crimson City in a Summoner and not taken damage. Just pump your thrust near the end and keep your speed under 50 kph (hit "stop" while in the air).

[Dymlos2003]

FupDup, on 01 July 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

I have immortalized this concept into meme format:

Except this isn't a nerf

[N0MAD]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

For the absence of Role Warfare (another PGI Lostech concept), there needs to be reasons to field them. As much as people don't use them properly (let alone know how to drive them), there was some use to annoy Assaults to death... if only because they don't know how to react more often than not.

Also, Lights are the underdogs... and I like underdogs. It's hard to root for anything bigger at this point in time.

For intelligent people i cant get over the fact that you keep head butting this wall called MWO.

Role warfare in MWO ever, hehe haha ohh my.
sorry couldnt resist.
wish there was somewhere in game like a chat lobby, you know where we could chat..

Edited by N0MAD, 01 July 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[Deathlike]

N0MAD, on 01 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

For intelligent people i cant get over the fact that you keep head butting this wall called MWO.

Role warfare in MWO ever, hehe haha ohh my.
sorry couldnt resist.
wish there was somewhere in game like a chat lobby, you know where we could chat..

It's OK, I get tired of MWO too.

That's why I've posted many comments about everything... so, you can't accuse me of not saying anything.

[N0MAD]

Just had a great idea for a fun game WT with MWO forums.

[YueFei]

poopenshire, on 01 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Eh wrongo Mr. Morono

I posted almost a dozen picks of mechs stepping off the lowest, LOWEST, edges of several maps (the best ones were losing over 12 to 15 damage for taking a step off of the lowest rung on Canyon Network). we are talking barely knee high on most mechs and taking more damage than an AC10 to the legs at point blank range..... None of those tests were with JJ and none were nothing higher than the height of a medium mech. All were simply stepping off an edge not running and not JJing off.

You need to learn to test properly and read.

Scalar damage was SUPPOSED to be based on mech weight, distance of fall, and speed of fall, Per PGI directly. Look it up and read more. What was evident from the PTS was this was not the case fully. Yes this was very visible, but unfortunately other damage was occurring at accelerated rates. What I saw in the PTS was horrid and not what scalar damage is meant to be. Great idea, it is, but poor poor implementation.

Frak, man, no tests were even needed. Based on the numbers PGI proposed, I already pointed out in their own feedback thread that a 5 meter fall would wreck people's legs. A Centurion is 14 meters tall.

I posted this info multiple times in the same thread in case they missed it.

PGI is just stupid as hell.

[Deathlike]

For the record - last I checked THIS happened on the PTS (that happened on Tuesday):


While I probably don't even make that much damage on a consistent basis (only a small handful can), it's fun to claim how others don't drive lights, or drive them often.

This happened today:


The match should have nowhere near ended the way it did (was losing halfway into the match, like 2-6 or 3-6 or so), and it took the D-DC lance that decided to be in the water covered area to even have half a shot to win.

If your dissent is simply "I don't believe you", w/o showing actual merits and/or examples... then, I guess blaming others and saying "you're wrong" is the "end all answer". Great discussion point. Please continue.

[ShinVector]

N0MAD, on 01 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

For intelligent people i cant get over the fact that you keep head butting this wall called MWO.

Role warfare in MWO ever, hehe haha ohh my.
sorry couldnt resist.
wish there was somewhere in game like a chat lobby, you know where we could chat..

Hmmm.. That's why the people created mwolobby ?
https://mwolobby.com/

[Monkey Lover]

Deathlike, on 01 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

They were never stated for the PTS AFAIK, and even PGI said in that particular thread about the rates that they were "placeholder values" (not guaranteed to be the case).

http://mwomercs.com/...ystem-overhaul/

Oh well i know this why i said "If they go with anywhere close to the numbers they had posted." It's a lot more likely they stay around the numbers they used than to increase light damage by 10 times.

[Monkey Lover]

Koniving, on 01 July 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Ever softened your landings by saving some fuel for the end? I've fallen from the tallest buildings in Crimson City in a Summoner and not taken damage. Just pump your thrust near the end and keep your speed under 50 kph (hit "stop" while in the air).

I guess the way i play it doesn't make it worth having max jumper jets. Be a lot easier to just have one to jump over rocks than to make sure you cushion your fall when getting shot at.

Another reason timber is op compared to the summorer.

[stjobe]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

With this being added next patch there is going to be a huge wave of threads saying that it is broken. It's not.

If it's anything close to what was on PTS then yes, yes it is broken.

Taking damage from stepping off a knee-high rock isn't broken? Getting legged just by running at your designed top speed isn't broken?

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

For once people have to watch where they pilot especially light pilots. Legs will be hurting.

Lights will be hurting, that's for sure. Unlike you, I don't see that as a good thing.

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

You guys better start practicing feathering your falls.

How do you propose I "feather my falls" in my Commando? Or in my Centurion?

Here's the thing: 'Mechs shouldn't take fall damage at all as long as the pilot is in control. The legs are designed to withstand drops from orbit (with ablative shields for re-entry, and disposable jump jet packs for 'mechs without jump jets). The legs are designed to withstand jumping; if they broke after a few jumps... Let's just say that 'mech would have had to go back to the drawing board. A 'mech that damaged its legs just by running would never make the production line.

Fall damage is a wasted effort to curb jump snipers; it won't affect them. It will affect everyone else.

What they should do is make jumping generate heat (in TT it's 1 heat per hex moved, 3 heat minimum), and make the reticule shake both on the way up and on the way down (in TT you get a +3 to-hit modifier for jumping).

That's how you curb jump snipers, not by making light 'mechs lose their legs just by running across the map.

[Dymlos2003]

stjobe, on 01 July 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

If it's anything close to what was on PTS then yes, yes it is broken.

Taking damage from stepping off a knee-high rock isn't broken? Getting legged just by running at your designed top speed isn't broken?


Lights will be hurting, that's for sure. Unlike you, I don't see that as a good thing.


How do you propose I "feather my falls" in my Commando? Or in my Centurion?

Here's the thing: 'Mechs shouldn't take fall damage at all as long as the pilot is in control. The legs are designed to withstand drops from orbit (with ablative shields for re-entry, and disposable jump jet packs for 'mechs without jump jets). The legs are designed to withstand jumping; if they broke after a few jumps... Let's just say that 'mech would have had to go back to the drawing board. A 'mech that damaged its legs just by running would never make the production line.

Fall damage is a wasted effort to curb jump snipers; it won't affect them. It will affect everyone else.

What they should do is make jumping generate heat (in TT it's 1 heat per hex moved, 3 heat minimum), and make the reticule shake both on the way up and on the way down (in TT you get a +3 to-hit modifier for jumping).

That's how you curb jump snipers, not by making light 'mechs lose their legs just by running across the map.

It's meant to add fall damage not to curb jump snipers. I'm all for something that adds skill to driving a mech but as this thread shows people will ***** about it.

Quote

Here's the thing: 'Mechs shouldn't take fall damage at all as long as the pilot is in control. The legs are designed to withstand drops from orbit (with ablative shields for re-entry, and disposable jump jet packs for 'mechs without jump jets).

You mean this? They would use jump jets or a jump pack to cushion the fall other wise they would damage their legs.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 01 July 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[stjobe]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

It's meant to add fall damage not to curb jump snipers. I'm all for something that adds skill to driving a mech

Fall damage doesn't add skill to driving a 'mech, it just punishes moving.

And you can tell yourself this isn't to curb poptarts all you like, but that is why it is being implemented; there would be zero purpose for it otherwise as a 'mech should never take fall damage while its pilot is in control of it.

[Dymlos2003]

stjobe, on 01 July 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

Fall damage doesn't add skill to driving a 'mech, it just punishes moving.

And you can tell yourself this isn't to curb poptarts all you like, but that is why it is being implemented; there would be zero purpose for it otherwise as a 'mech should never take fall damage while its pilot is in control of it.

Unless they drive stupidly. Yes they should be punished. Ever jump off something pretty high? Didn't your legs hurt after you landed? Yeah same thing. This isn't about dropping off a small ledge more like a high cliff.

[Draykin]

Why should a 'Mech not take fall damage from a pilot controlling it? I can jump off a two-story building and be in complete control of my body, and I still break my legs. The legs are designed to move. A 'Mech cannot jump (at least very effectively, like a Tyrannosaurus jumping) without jump jets. Sure, it can drop from orbit... but so can a moon lander. And that only survives because the thrusters on it slow it down enough to where the impact is hardly anything. How are 'Mechs any different?