162 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

Unless they drive stupidly. Yes they should be punished. Ever jump off something pretty high? Didn't your legs hurt after you landed? Yeah same thing. This isn't about dropping off a small ledge more like a high cliff.

I've jumped off 1 story roofs and not hurt myself.

I am not exactly athletic.

Mechs are machines of war, not arthritic old men.

Falling down something that's knee-height should not cause fall damage!

You realize that with their new system, a 5 meter fall will damage your legs in MWO? A Centurion is 14 meters tall!

[Dymlos2003]

YueFei, on 01 July 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

I've jumped off 1 story roofs and not hurt myself.

I am not exactly athletic.

Mechs are machines of war, not arthritic old men.

Falling down something that's knee-height should not cause fall damage!

You realize that with their new system, a 5 meter fall will damage your legs in MWO? A Centurion is 14 meters tall!

How long does it take to fall 5 meters? You have to fall atleast 10mps to take some damage and that's the minimum damage.

[stjobe]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

You mean this? They would use jump jets or a jump pack to cushion the fall other wise they would damage their legs.

From that page (edited for brevity, and emphasis mine):

Quote

specialized jump packs were designed to be added onto non-Jump Jet equipped BattleMechs, allowing them to exit a stationary (but airborne) DropShip and control their descent to the ground. [...] Once free of the effects of the Drop Pod, the BattleMech relies on jump jets, a jump pack, and/or specialized parachutes to land safely on the ground.

According to the TT rules, a 'mech takes damage from "falling" - but "falling" in this context means losing control of your 'mech, not just dropping down from a ledge.

Feel free to peruse pages 68-69 in Total Warfare for fall damage rules.

Edited by stjobe, 01 July 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

stjobe, on 01 July 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

From that page (edited for brevity, and emphasis mine):


According to the TT rules, a 'mech takes damage from "falling" - but "falling" in this context means losing control of your 'mech, not just dropping down from a ledge.

Feel free to peruse pages 68-69 in Total Warfare for fall damage rules.

I just said that. Without those things the legs of their mechs would be destroyed hence the whole cushioning the fall thing.

[stjobe]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

I just said that. Without those things the legs of their mechs would be destroyed hence the whole cushioning the fall thing.

But that's not what you're saying; you're saying a 'mech should take damage from falling short distances (since you seem happy over the imminent implementation of that mechanic), or even from just running over terrain.

This has no precedent in TT; a 'mech never took falling damage unless its pilot lost control and the 'mech actually fell over. You did not take damage from jumping unless you lost control of your 'mech. You never took damage from just running.

Show me the TT rule for leg damage for a non-jump jet equipped light 'mech going at top speed over terrain and I might agree with PGI's implementation.

As it is, it's just another in the long line of fail "fixes" that they have tried instead of fixing the real problem: pin-point accurate, instant convergence, front-loaded alphas.

If they want to fix anything, fix that. And if they are concerned about jumping while using that trio of broken mechanics, implement proper heat and reticule shake during the whole jump.

[YueFei]

Dymlos2003, on 01 July 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

How long does it take to fall 5 meters? You have to fall atleast 10mps to take some damage and that's the minimum damage.

It takes roughly 1 second to fall 5 meters. Actually slightly longer than 1 second to fall 5 meters.

By that time you've reached 10 meters/sec.

d = (a * t^2) / 2

a = 9.81 m/s^2
t = 1.02

d = 9.81 * 1.02 / 2 = 5.0031 meters

v = a * t
v = 9.81 * 1.02 = 10 meters/sec

[-Natural Selection-]

Between my Jenners, Ravens, Spiders, and Ember I have over 6k matches in lights. I played the PTS exclusively in lights to see how the fall damage would play out. I do not claim to be a pro at any of them, though I don't do to bad.

I have used soft landings from day one and is not a mechanic I will have to work towards. I can say from what I observed on the PTS the damage to lights even with JJs is a little harsh. And soft landing does not always help you. Sometimes going from no damage to orange legs even burning half fuel to cushion.

My hopes are that there was some damage adjustments made, or notice taken to the occasional damage despite how controlled the landing is.

[Dymlos2003]

stjobe, on 01 July 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

But that's not what you're saying; you're saying a 'mech should take damage from falling short distances (since you seem happy over the imminent implementation of that mechanic), or even from just running over terrain.

This has no precedent in TT; a 'mech never took falling damage unless its pilot lost control and the 'mech actually fell over. You did not take damage from jumping unless you lost control of your 'mech. You never took damage from just running.

Show me the TT rule for leg damage for a non-jump jet equipped light 'mech going at top speed over terrain and I might agree with PGI's implementation.

As it is, it's just another in the long line of fail "fixes" that they have tried instead of fixing the real problem: pin-point accurate, instant convergence, front-loaded alphas.

If they want to fix anything, fix that. And if they are concerned about jumping while using that trio of broken mechanics, implement proper heat and reticule shake during the whole jump.

Fall damage has been in every game. You don't even know if mechs still take damage from falling over some cliffs. Even though that happened in most mechwarriors. I'm glad they are adding fall damage.

Dozier, on 01 July 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Between my Jenners, Ravens, Spiders, and Ember I have over 6k matches in lights. I played the PTS exclusively in lights to see how the fall damage would play out. I do not claim to be a pro at any of them, though I don't do to bad.

I have used soft landings from day one and is not a mechanic I will have to work towards. I can say from what I observed on the PTS the damage to lights even with JJs is a little harsh. And soft landing does not always help you. Sometimes going from no damage to orange legs even burning half fuel to cushion.

My hopes are that there was some damage adjustments made, or notice taken to the occasional damage despite how controlled the landing is.

There has.

[dario03]

I'm fine with fall damage but lights should handle falls much better than other mechs. Their entire defense is based on being fast and agile so taking damage from running and small falls shouldn't happen. If it does then hey assault mechs should have their speed permanently lowered every time they take damage.

[YueFei]

YueFei, on 01 July 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

It takes roughly 1 second to fall 5 meters. Actually slightly longer than 1 second to fall 5 meters.

By that time you've reached 10 meters/sec.

d = (a * t^2) / 2

a = 9.81 m/s^2
t = 1.02

d = 9.81 * 1.02 / 2 = 5.0031 meters

v = a * t
v = 9.81 * 1.02 = 10 meters/sec

*ahem*

This is high-school level math.

PGI apparently does not have one single employee who can do basic high school math. Or, they did, and they're OK with a Centurion falling less than waist-height and hurting itself.

Let's let that sink in for a moment.

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Reitrix]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 01 July 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

This is bullshnitzel for mechs that can only mount like 2 JJs (jester). They will barely be able to get off ground if they have to conserve 50% of their jjs to "feather the fall". IDGAF how much you scrubs whine about meta. Its a thing and even after JJ nerf will be a thing. Just stop being butthurt scrubs and L2P. FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or, you know, the Jester and 'Mechs with limited JJs like it might actually start using their JJs as repositioning tools to get to higher ground faster or to evade a pursuer that can't jump.
Kind of like how JJs were meant to be used.

[Reitrix]

YueFei, on 01 July 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

I've jumped off 1 story roofs and not hurt myself.

I am not exactly athletic.

Mechs are machines of war, not arthritic old men.

Falling down something that's knee-height should not cause fall damage!

You realize that with their new system, a 5 meter fall will damage your legs in MWO? A Centurion is 14 meters tall!

lol, now tell me, did you do a straight drop off that roof? Or did you bend your legs and roll with the impact?
Mechs can't really do that. When they fall off a cliff, they do so in a straight drop, the knees bend, but the top half of the 'Mech (weighing a LOT more than the combined total of the Legs and their Armor) will down directly over those legs, so you have 20+ tons coming down on those legs.
Suspension systems would absorb some of the impact but it'd be impossible to fully absorb the sort of impact resulting from that much weight coming down on the legs.

[stjobe]

Reitrix, on 01 July 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Or, you know, the Jester and 'Mechs with limited JJs like it might actually start using their JJs as repositioning tools to get to higher ground faster or to evade a pursuer that can't jump.
Kind of like how JJs were meant to be used.

Indeed:

Quote

Found occasionally on BattleMechs, some ProtoMechs and a few rare fusion-/fission-powered IndustrialMechs, jump jets are an emergency short-range motive system that allow such units to quickly overcome restrictive terrain such as built-up areas, thick woodlands or even radical elevation shifts. Structurally placed deep within the framework of a given ’Mech, only the exhaust ports of these powerful thrusters are exposed through apertures in the rear torsos and legs, which makes them difficult to damage in combat. This “deep installation” prevents most jump-capable units from losing their enhanced maneuverability altogether in battle.

While functionally similar to the fusion-powered thrusters of aerospace fighters, jump jets lack the added boost provided by aerospace reaction mass that would otherwise allow for sustained thrust, and also cannot maintain the high levels of heat a constant burn would generate. Thus, these jets can only be engaged for a few seconds at a time—long enough to make a short leap, but not enough for true flight.

- TechManual, p. 225

Edited by stjobe, 02 July 2014 - 12:09 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

YueFei, on 01 July 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

It takes roughly 1 second to fall 5 meters. Actually slightly longer than 1 second to fall 5 meters.

By that time you've reached 10 meters/sec.

d = (a * t^2) / 2

a = 9.81 m/s^2
t = 1.02

d = 9.81 * 1.02 / 2 = 5.0031 meters

v = a * t
v = 9.81 * 1.02 = 10 meters/sec

[YueFei]

Reitrix, on 02 July 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

lol, now tell me, did you do a straight drop off that roof? Or did you bend your legs and roll with the impact?
Mechs can't really do that. When they fall off a cliff, they do so in a straight drop, the knees bend, but the top half of the 'Mech (weighing a LOT more than the combined total of the Legs and their Armor) will down directly over those legs, so you have 20+ tons coming down on those legs.
Suspension systems would absorb some of the impact but it'd be impossible to fully absorb the sort of impact resulting from that much weight coming down on the legs.

I didn't have to roll, just flex my knees on landing. It's not like it's amazing or anything. Just to put into perspective that it's a drop from roughly twice my height.

Russian sprinters jump from 20 feet ladders and land on their feet to train themselves.

I don't know why you think it's superhuman or anything like that.

You think it's OK that mechs fall less than waist-height and hurt their legs?

[Draykin]

YueFei, on 02 July 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

I didn't have to roll, just flex my knees on landing. It's not like it's amazing or anything. Just to put into perspective that it's a drop from roughly twice my height.

Russian sprinters jump from 20 feet ladders and land on their feet to train themselves.

I don't know why you think it's superhuman or anything like that.

You think it's OK that mechs fall less than waist-height and hurt their legs?

Completely different weights between a human and a 'Mech.

[N0MAD]

ShinVector, on 01 July 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Hmmm.. That's why the people created mwolobby ?
https://mwolobby.com/

Really? is that a new game?(sarcasm).
You mean if i want to talk to the MWO cummunity i am forced to use a 3rd party site or 3rd party software?
Seriously, in a team orientated game with its aim to create Community warfare we do not have any community tools to talk to each other? really in 2014.. seems legit.

[YueFei]

Draykin, on 02 July 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Completely different weights between a human and a 'Mech.

So your answer is yes, you think it's OK for a Centurion to fall less than waist-height and hurt himself. Gotcha.

Do you happen to work for PGI? If not, maybe you should apply to work there. Your logic fits right in with theirs.

[Reitrix]

YueFei, on 02 July 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

So your answer is yes, you think it's OK for a Centurion to fall less than waist-height and hurt himself. Gotcha.

Do you happen to work for PGI? If not, maybe you should apply to work there. Your logic fits right in with theirs.

Yes, i think a 50 tonne steel chassis to suffer damage when dropped from 5 meters with no way to cushion that fall is perfectly logical.
Your'e comparing apples to watermelons. And what happens when you drop either one from a bench? Same distance ... But one is going to shatter and the other will suffer a bruise. For exactly the same reason you can jump from a 1 story roof and only suffer discomfort while a 50 ton war machine in humanoid form would suffer a reasonable level of stress damage.

Edited by Reitrix, 02 July 2014 - 01:12 AM.

[ShinVector]

YueFei, on 02 July 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

So your answer is yes, you think it's OK for a Centurion to fall less than waist-height and hurt himself. Gotcha.

Do you happen to work for PGI? If not, maybe you should apply to work there. Your logic fits right in with theirs.

Fun facts..

Hope this is accurate.
http://www.angio.net...nal/climb/speed

Quote

Speed at impact: 42.00 m/s
or 151.20 km/h
Time until impact: 4.29 s
Energy at impact: 30870000.00 joules

So 151KPH is more of less the top speed of most light mechs so, one could say that a 35 ton light smashing a wall at that speed has an energy at impact of 30870000.00 joules.

How high does said 35 ton need to be dropped to generate the same speed at impact ?
90 METRES !!
PGI where is the option to Kamikaze in our light mechs ??

Edit: I also find it stupid that ARMOUR takes damage first from fall damage and it doesn't hurt your Internal Structure (Bones) at all.

Edited by ShinVector, 02 July 2014 - 01:23 AM.