12 replies to this topic

[Vyrago]

It keeps getting talked about. But how do you actually implement this? Xp bonus/C-bill bonus for doing 'role related' tasks?

[FupDup]

Some ideas include but are not limited to the following:

• Increased map sizes, to make mobility more important
  
• Increased C-Bill and XP payouts for tasks other than kills and assists
  
• Completely redo the Information Warfare system, starting with ECM and similar items
  
• Add a passive radar mode, for stealthy maneuvers
  
• Perhaps modify the objectives/location of objectives, to further increase the utility of mobile mechs
  
• Redo the whole XP tree to have multiple paths that can be gone into, such as fire support, recon, assault, etc. etc.
  
• Segregate all modules into "types" and assign each mech a specific set of module slot types (i.e. Raven 3L gets mostly sensor mods, Adder gets mostly weapon mods)
  
• Buff any currently lacking modules, including the weapon mods (because they're horribad)
  
• Add more modules in all categories
  
• Reduce the hill climbing penalties to a more reasonable level, so that JJs are not nearly mandatory at all times
  
• Anything I forgot about

Edited by FupDup, 01 July 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[Draykin]

FupDup, on 01 July 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Some ideas include but are not limited to the following:

• Increased map sizes, to make mobility more important
  
• Completely redo the Information Warfare system, starting with ECM and similar items
  
• Redo the whole XP tree to have multiple paths that can be gone into, such as fire support, recon, assault, etc. etc.
  
• Segregate all modules into "types" and assign each mech a specific set of module slot types (i.e. Raven 3L gets mostly sensor mods, Adder gets mostly weapon mods)

I support these ideas. I think that one of the best things you can do to give out 'roles' to MWO 'Mechs is to have gear that is specifically made for those roles.

An artillery piece (fire support - let's say, an LRM boat) really shouldn't care that much about turn speed (torso twist is more important), arm movement speed (don't really need to move your arms if you're firing all weapons at the same target), or most movement speed traits (will probably sit on an advantageous point with plenty of room to fire). However, they will care a lot about heat (need to fire those weapons, and plenty of them), re-fire time (more fire rate, more damage potential), and things like zoom and target lock (they do still need to hit).

This is completely different from an assault (not the weight class, but a 'Mech designed to spearhead the enemy), who wants to be focused on mobility (movement speed, acceleration, deceleration) and agility (torso twist, turn speed, twist X) to soak up damage and providing room for his allies to come in behind him and take the enemy head on while they're focused on the assault. Such an example 'Mech wouldn't really need to care that much about target lock speed (they're a distraction more than an attacker), or sensor range (enemies will be in sight if the assaulter is doing its job right).

And again, completely different for a recon 'Mech (not specifically stating Lights because of all those Steiner Scout Lance fans) who doesn't need weapon re-fire speed (not firing weapons much if scouting), extra heat containment (again, not firing weapons as often), or faster weapon convergence (you get the idea by now). Instead, they want extreme mobility (to run and run across the map), agility (to not crash and crash into walls), sensor range (to detect enemies), and some decent form of communication (to get info back to the team quickly and efficiently).

Also, bigger maps really would help, I feel, since then it would be 'Mechs spawning a few block away from each other and the match instantly turning into a giant slugfest.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Give each class their own module slots, and modules that only they can use.

First. Lights are scouts. Give them sensor type modules.

1. Deployable seismic sensors. They're like UAV's, but on the ground, and give the team seismic info only (no lock ons from that).
2. 180 degree radar module. You may not see it out of the corner of your eye, but your mech can.
3. Phantom radar target. You deploy a drone that simulates the sensor profile of a mech that the enemy can target, but looking at it clearly gives up the trick.
4. Low power setting. Your heat sinks are only partially effective, you move at half speed, but you only show up on radar after being in line of sight for 3 seconds.
5. Chaff and flare launcher consumables to break locks.
6. Twin UAV consumable. Yup, you get 2 per game, not one.

Medium mechs. The standard fighters of the battlefield. Modules that directly effect combat peformance.

1. Power overload consumable. Energy weapons get a temporary damage boost from being set to 11 on the dial, but you damage your CT torso like being overheated.
2. Direct fire computer for LRM missiles. No lock required, just aim and shoot straight at a higher velocity than normal, and they track your crosshair even as you turn.
3. Battle Scanner, find the weak spot. Your SRM missiles can damage enemy components directly through armor (TT game SRMs are great for getting critical hits, and there already is a through-armor-critical hit if you roll boxcars with 2D6 dice).
4. Lead computing gunsight computer for the four normal autocannons.

Heavies. The big backup mechs that have modules for helping others out.

5. Radar spoof. Your force the nearest enemy to target you instead of somebody else.
6. False Radar return. You show up on the enemy radar as a different, random mech type while active. Aka as a standard loadout A1 Catapult when you are in fact a Dragon with a custom loadout.
7. Magscan vision mode. You can see enemy through walls, but you cannot target them. It also reveals your position and you can be targeted by the enemy while active because of the huge energy signature your magscan is putting out.

Assault mechs. The leaders on the field. They have modules that benefit the members of the team, not just themselves.

1. Spy Satelite uplink dish. You get a map reveal scan that "narcs" the whole enemy team, but for only about 1 second.
2. Target kill command. You put a mark on an enemy mech that you have targeted, and it boosts rewards at the end of game for the player that kills it.
3. Meritious Service Cross medal. You place a waypoint on the map, and any friendlies that move to within 50 meters of it will get a post mission bonus reward for doing so. It is the Generals who get to hand out the medals you know.
4. Rally on me. You have a zone around your assault mech that boosts rewards for being near you.

[FupDup]

Hans Von Lohman, on 01 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

...
First. Lights are scouts. Give them sensor type modules.
...

Wat.


Module slot types should be assigned on a per-mech basis, not per-class. You can't shoehorn every mech of one class to do the same thing.

[phalanx]

FupDup, on 01 July 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Some ideas include but are not limited to the following:

• Increased map sizes, to make mobility more important

Map size is not the main issue. The problem is overall layout in a way that both interesting and balanced.

Quote

• Increased C-Bill and XP payouts for tasks other than kills and assists

YES! YES! YES! (Can make lots of cbills on component kills and other tasks like spotting, but we could always use more)

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• Completely redo the Information Warfare system, starting with ECM and similar items

Going to have to disagree with you here. This, in my opinion, is one of "Pillars" that is the most solid. What is needed are more tweaks that give you more options, which they have begun to do.

Quote

• Add a passive radar mode, for stealthy maneuvers

Absolutely, and in a way that is both beneficial but not overpowered.

Quote

• Perhaps modify the objectives/location of objectives, to further increase the utility of mobile mechs

How about the option to modify locations and types of objectives in private matches, along with periodic varaition of objective lcoations in public que.

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• Redo the whole XP tree to have multiple paths that can be gone into, such as fire support, recon, assault, etc. etc.

I have no problem with the Pilot/Mech XP divide, but the Pilot XP side needs some work. I would recommend the modified Pilot CP be organized bases on a Class System for Pilot Types.

Quote

• Segregate all modules into "types" and assign each mech a specific set of module slot types (i.e. Raven 3L gets mostly sensor mods, Adder gets mostly weapon mods)

Instead of reinventing the Wheel here, how about adapting within the current system. Following your example, Raven 3L may mount an additional Sensor Module without penalty,Adder may mount an Additional Weapon Module,etc.

In this way we give more flavor to the quirk system, and use it as a way to provide incentive to bring "unpopular mechs."

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Buff any currently lacking modules, including the weapon mods (because they're horribad)

• Add more modules in all categories

This is part of the alchemy that is game balance, which is constantly in progress.

Quote

• Reduce the hill climbing penalties to a more reasonable level, so that JJs are not nearly mandatory at all times

This is a problem of map design and not hill climbing. I have MOSTLY do not have a problem with hills while in a non-JJ mech, as long as the hill is not an area where you can be stuck.

[YueFei]

I'd love to see on-map assets that actually got used to influence the fighting.

Like an artillery battery and an air field that can be attacked/defended, from which strikes are launched.

A comm tower that acts as the C3I link for all friendly mechs. If destroyed, you have no C3I link except with friendlies in your direct line-of-sight. No more target sharing capability with friendlies who are out of line of sight.

There's all kinds of stuff they could put in.

[Draykin]

YueFei, on 01 July 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

I'd love to see on-map assets that actually got used to influence the fighting.

Like an artillery battery and an air field that can be attacked/defended, from which strikes are launched.

A comm tower that acts as the C3I link for all friendly mechs. If destroyed, you have no C3I link except with friendlies in your direct line-of-sight. No more target sharing capability with friendlies who are out of line of sight.

There's all kinds of stuff they could put in.

Hopefully, with the arrival of CW, we'll see large maps with such assets as these.

[Destructicus]

Implement sized hardpoints so we don't see light mechs with PPCs and such.
retouch IS engine sizes for heavy/assaults so they aren't flying around at the speed of mediums
Mediums are finally the happy middle class between heavies and lights.
From there each class would be reworked and bonuses would be granted for specific weight classes for role specific actions.
And instead of 3/3/3/3, it would have been nicer to have weight restricted drops.
Here's why
Koniving on 3/3/3/3

Edited by Destructicus, 01 July 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Role Warfare? Extra bonuses for tasks done, that would pertain to your role.

AMS Light mech? 2xp, 5cbills for every missile shot down. Idk, maybe it would add up.
Spotting bonus: 2xp 5cbills for every point of damage done to a mech, which you have targeted and are maintaining a lock on
ECM cover: 5xp per mech, per minute you maintain ECM cover for your team.
Flanking damage: 10% more xp gained for all damage dealt from a flanking angle on an enemy mech
NARC bonus: 1xp 5cbills per missile that hits an enemy, which you have NARCd

Idk what else Lights do...capturing? who does that?

Mediums, idk what kinda role these would serve, support style to the bigger mechs?

Support Fire: 10% more xp per point of damage dealt when within 100m of a friendly mech. 10% more if your fire comes from a flanking angle on the enemy.
Savior Bonus: Medium mechs who score savior kills, earn 20% more xp and cbills.
AMS bonus: Same as the Lighter mechs

Heavies...hmmm
Skillful Tactician: 10% xp and cbill bonus at the end of the match for each mech still alive on your team
Damage score is multiplied by 10% and added to your Cbill count
Component Killer: Score for Components destroyed is multiplied by 10%.
Efficient killer: The faster you kill a mech, the higher the overall Xp/Cbill bonus will be for the kill(would be based on the overall health of the mech) IE, you shoot and kill a 100% mech in like 10 seconds due to nicely placed CT shots, you get a much larger bonus then finishing off a 10% mech with a single SPL to a cored CT.

Assaults
Bullet Sponge: You earn 10% more xp and cbills for every 10% damage you recieve during the fight. You must survive the battle. IE: Say you end with 30% health on an Assault, in the end you will get a 70% bonus to your XP and cbills in the end. This would signify your assault mech has done its job, gone in, wrecked face, and lived to tell about it...being an assault mech, not pussying in the back afraid to get your paint scratched. Should you die, you will recieve a default 20% bonus for having actually gotten into the fight.
Heavyweight: All damage dealt at the end of the match is multiplied by 10 and added to your Cbill count. All damage dealt is also multplied by 2 and added to your XP score.
Death dealer: XP and Cbills for kills in an Assault mech are tripled for each kill.
Efficient killer would also apply to Assault mechs, but with a 15% bonus instead of 10.

And regardless of class, Victories will add a 10% bonus in Cbills/xp to ALL role warfare criteria bonuses.
A Defeat will subtract 10% from your Role bonus.

But those are ideas I have for a "Role" warfare and bonuses to kinda incentivize players to do it.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 01 July 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[stjobe]

I'll just leave this here, as I usually do in these kinds of threads.

Read it and weep at what could have been.

Also, to the silly person who said lights are scouts: Scout is a role, not a weight class; it can be done by any weight class. Lights might generally be more suited to it than assaults, but nevertheless the role is not light-specific.

[LordKnightFandragon]

stjobe, on 01 July 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

I'll just leave this here, as I usually do in these kinds of threads.

Read it and weep at what could have been.

Also, to the silly person who said lights are scouts: Scout is a role, not a weight class; it can be done by any weight class. Lights might generally be more suited to it than assaults, but nevertheless the role is not light-specific.

You were once part of a Steiner Scout Lance werent you?

[stjobe]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 July 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

You were once part of a Steiner Scout Lance werent you?

Yep, my 80-ton, 86.4 kph Charger was the envy of my lance-mates. I used to run rings around their slow Atlases.

Seriously, though. "Scout" is a role, not a weight class. Lights come designed for all kinds of roles; Striker (Commando, Jenner, Spider), Scout (Raven 3L), Sniper (Hollander, Panther), Incendiary (Firestarter), and so on.

Most 'mechs can fill more than one role; some even at the same time. Incidentally, that's what makes mediums so common in lore; they can fill just about any role, from scout to main line.

I have two problems with the blanket statement "Lights are scouts"; the first is the one I've already mentioned that the role a 'mech can fill is not solely determined by its weight class. The second is the fact that even if it was true, if lights indeed were meant to be scouts and scouts only, there wouldn't be any point to them.

Scouting is meaningless in the current MWO. It is not rewarded, and it's not needed.

Until it is and does, my lights will continue to drop as regular combat units.

Edited by stjobe, 02 July 2014 - 01:43 AM.