35 replies to this topic

[Satan n stuff]

Koniving, on 02 July 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

A certain kind of steel for example.

That's recently been rediscovered in an attempt to make polymerized steel.

[JonahGrimm]

DarthRevis, on 03 July 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Dont need to build a match....there is more then one way to skin a cat.

You can use flint and steel to start a fire

A bow and string

Black powder

Even just rubbing sticks together it is possible.

So what the big deal? Just because the match is gone doesn't mean human ingenuity wont persevere....Or we lost all intelligence when the factory burnt up.

You still lost matches.

The point is that technology can and often is lost, and replacements are not necessarily equivalencies. Loopala's right: I can drive a car, and even do most repairs - up to and including swapping an engine. I can't, however, fabricate a replacement driveshaft from raw metal.

I could probably build a really clunky zippo lighter, though. My zippo certainly wouldn't be as good as the professionally manufactured one, but it'd light a fire.

Do you think I'd win a fire-lighting competition against a guy with a professionally-made zippo, though?

THat's kind of the point - fabrication is different than installation or repair. The human race HAS lost knowledge, and while things can be reinvented, the more complex the system, the more time and resources are required to recreate it.

If I hand you a pile of sand and a broken telescope, could you fabricate the lenses - right now? You don't get tools - you'll have to make those, so, you'll have to build something to melt the sand, something to purify the resulting glass, some way to cast the lenses - without bubbles or imperfections, some way to mirror them, some way to align them...

An invention - even a match - isn't just a thing in itself. It's a combination of lesser advances all built together to build something larger - everything from the wrenches to work on the machine to the steel in those wrenches to the machine itself.

Ever change a fan clutch on a 90's ford? They make a special wrench to assist you in removing the fan clutch, as standard wrenches don't really fit on the clutch itself. Without that wrench, it's nearly impossible to get the clutch off. Could you fabricate a new wrench? How many people can? IF you did, do you think you'd put it into mass production, or would you toss it into a toolbox when you're done - and would someone else junk their car instead?

(Edit)

I work in tech - here's a good one going on right now. When's the last time you've seen a Jazz Disk? Howabout a working Jazz Drive?

A buddy's company has an old archive, taken on Jazz disks, that includes a unique algorithm for a targetting system no longer in production. The system is obsolete, but the algorithm cut the resolution time of the targetting array by about 40%.

Unfortunately, the notes and design of the algorithm only now exists on these Jazz disks. If they can't find a way to read 'em, the algorithm will be permanently lost - and it was the product of inspiration of a programmer that is unlikely to be replicated.

That's /now/. Right now. In the age of the internet.

Edited by JonahGrimm, 03 July 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Biggest hit for cbill users when trying to get clan mechs will be that there is no engine rebate: its pretty standard practice to sell spare engine copies when buying variants and then moving one engine around as needed, can't do this with clan mechs.

[Sug]

JonahGrimm, on 03 July 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Do you think you could just build a match, if you had to?

http://www.popsci.co...g-perfect-match

Done.

[Old Bones]

As an aside...

Back in the 1980's PBS had a program called Connections by historian James Burke. In it Burke traces the evolution of various modern technologies. What is so fascinating is how seemingly unrelated events & discoveries led to so many things we have today. If not for certain happenstance discoveries from out of left field you have to wonder how everyday things ever came to be.

So if a technology is 'lost' how easy would it be to recover that technology through reinvention? Not very if history is a guide. So the quest for Lostech is very realistic, the shortest path for recovering that which was forgotten. Technological advance is not necessarily linear, more often it is a convoluted mess of dumb luck & the chance that 1 person sees something that no one else sees.

The series is still available in the store at pbs.org, I highly recommend it.

[Tylerchu]

Satan n stuff, on 03 July 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

That's recently been rediscovered in an attempt to make polymerized steel.

I think he means Damascus Steel. Apparently, it's this super-tempered steel that naturally forms carbon nanotubes, meaning that it has an incredible hardness and flexibility.

[Karamarka]

You can wait to buy clans for c-bills in 3-4 months time

OR

If you buy with real money now, you get an (I) invasion variant of the prime. Which has a custom camo, custom geometry(?) and 30% C-bill bonus. the (I) invasion variant wont be available for C-bills or MC i believe.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Karamarka, on 03 July 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

custom geometry(?)

Little things like the legs on the Dire Wolf, Warhawk, and Timberwolf being rounded, or the "hands" on the Stormcrow being actual hands instead of the 3 fingered claws the standard variants get.


Used to be fairly easy to compare on the order page, but they took down the images of the non-(I) variants for whatever reason

[Karamarka]

Shar Wolf, on 03 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Little things like the legs on the Dire Wolf, Warhawk, and Timberwolf being rounded, or the "hands" on the Stormcrow being actual hands instead of the 3 fingered claws the standard variants get.


Used to be fairly easy to compare on the order page, but they took down the images of the non-(I) variants for whatever reason

Ok sweet, i have a few primes and i heard about it but i couldn't see exactly the difference, nothing like your stormcrow example (don't have one to check)

thanks

[Alaskan Nobody]

Karamarka, on 03 July 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

...
thanks

Which primes?
Most of the changes are kind of minor - cycling back and forth between your (I) and the others can help spot the differences, but I can point you toward some of them.

Very few are as obvious as the (F)Catapult or (I)Stormcrow though.

[Toffa]

Koniving, on 02 July 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

"nor the Wolf's abstinent howl"

[/spoiler]

LOL! Does that mean that no-one in Clan Wolf gets laid or drinks booze?!

Abstinent - http://dictionary.re...rowse/abstinent

Obstinate - http://dictionary.re...rowse/obstinate

Great work BTW.

Toffs ( '-')7

[Koniving]

I was close.

[Karamarka]

Shar Wolf, on 03 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Which primes?
Most of the changes are kind of minor - cycling back and forth between your (I) and the others can help spot the differences, but I can point you toward some of them.

Very few are as obvious as the (F)Catapult or (I)Stormcrow though.

Warhawk and Timberwolf, both are very minor in comparison to the Stormcrow example i meant**

[Alaskan Nobody]

Karamarka, on 03 July 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

Warhawk and Timberwolf, both are very minor in comparison to the Stormcrow example i meant**

Not necessarily - check the legs, they got rounded for the (I)s

There are a couple of other differences as well - but that was the big one off the top of my head.

And the concept arts are back up!




Wish they had kept the concept for the (i) rather than giving us the model, but I can see why they did it this way.

Legs are rounded rather than blocky - few other little bits are rounded, and you cannot really see it, but there is a little smiley on the (I) that I do not think the standards have. (Don't quote me on that though)

Similar with the Warhawk, few extra rounded bits, but yeah, none quite so eye opening as the fists on the 'Crow.
(though looking at them before they came out, the 'Crow was the second to last difference I saw, last was on the Nova)

[Satan n stuff]

Tylerchu, on 03 July 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

I think he means Damascus Steel. Apparently, it's this super-tempered steel that naturally forms carbon nanotubes, meaning that it has an incredible hardness and flexibility.

I know that, I'm just pointing out that it has in fact been rediscovered.

[Zaprozhan]

The derailed discussion on real life Lostech has been illuminating. Thank you for your contributions.