21 replies to this topic

[Stormvetprime]

Please recall the game "Earth and Beyond" where you piloted space vehicles used for mining, combat and various other conquests. When you got back to a space station or port, you disembarked your ship and could perform many activities which enhanced yourself as a pilot that were separate from upgrading/improving your ship. While that game wasn't stellar (no pun intended) it does demonstrate there is more to maintaining a ship (or mech) than simply sitting in the cockpit.

Second, please recall Anarchy Online (AO) where you had Implants (a technosomatic device) for various slots on your character which made your overall reactions and other attributes better. While the implants in AO were meant for avatar-based classes like the Metaphysicist (et al) there's no reason a similar idea could not be applied to a mech pilot. These would give bonuses in the mech as a native interface for the pilot.

By combining a hybrid of these two features the game could be well-enriched such that one is not simply doing deathmatch combat 100% of the time, but could actually have quests and tasks to do outside of the mech running around in high tech cities wheeling and dealing (and maybe a little Han Solo brigandry) which ultimately benefits a pilot in his mech.

A pilot's "guild" could also have access to special merchants or other NPC interactions based on reputation, level and that sort of thing.

Third, please recall the video you have in Blog 0 where the pilot is forced to eject when pounded by the other mech. Imagine what fun it would be to have to navigate through the dystopia below to get back to a mech facility in order to hop into another mech, get your own mech salvaged, or even get stomped on by a mech if you weren't elusive enough. In a way this would be like in paintball where, once "killed" you have to leave the map and sit a spell - but instead that downtime could be spent just getting back to base. Also what about a reclamation team which can minimize the guild's losses by successfully reclaiming a wreck, or even more fun taking wrecks from other opposing guilds once one has been disabled!

Please take this game well beyond just a bunch of deathmatch fights with no other depth than that. Allow us to get out of the mech and have additional MMORPG fun just as pilots playing our own human avatars.

Edited by Stormvetprime, 04 January 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Kaemon]

Have you been following the Q&As? There is depth there, don't make the confusion that just because there is limited (at this time) gameplay they've alluded to, means there will not be immersion.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet your first scout mech that the reason for the lower map/mech counts is because a lot of time/effort right now is being spent in aspects that are directly related to immersion (i.e. Community Warfare, Information Warfare).

I agree that taken at face value the info presented on the actual mech vs mech combat doesn't seem to be much, but it's also because they're saving that for last (since most of us are quite familiar with alot of the fundamentals of that).

What we haven't seen before is the rest of it, that is what will give us the immersion, the depth we're looking for (ideally).

and if you're avatar was allowed outside of the cockpit, imagine the griefing lights that would spend all day trying to step on them or roll around on them.

[Stormvetprime]

Kaemon, on 04 January 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

if you're avatar was allowed outside of the cockpit, imagine the griefing lights that would spend all day trying to step on them or roll around on them.

Haha I know that's what would be hilarious - seeing a 40 foot tall mech trying to stomp a human who is trying to go back to base! rofl! What fun!

But seriously, one could have an inventory of survival gear like camouflage and that sort of thing when he's ejected. However I wasn't really trying to emphasize out-of-mech avatar play for the battlefield so much - I was talking about more classic MMORPG stuff one might do when he wasn't on his mount. Why can't we have good old Sci-Fi spaceport play with the various tidbits like I mentioned above?

Harken back to a fantasy MMORPG where you might be a knight or wizard, but a certain part of the time you are "in town" working on crafts, putting things in an auction house, doing quests for Reputation or faction - all of which benefit you when your guildies get online, you form a party, then head into a dungeon to kill really hard mobs.

Why then can't the spaceport stuff be like the "in town" area and the mech battlefield be like the "dungeon" area? It sure would take the classic MMO to a new level.

Edited by Stormvetprime, 04 January 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Kaemon]

Remember this is not a MMORPG, this is a OSIMRPG (yeah need to work on that a bit).

I think the 'classic' MMO model is undergoing a bit of a change. As you look at all the 'fluff' that DDO, WoW has you have to start to ask, how much time/effort (or $ I suppose) did it take to create that area where all players do is dance around all day?

Then you look at instanced games like WoT, BSGO, and you see a more stripped down version that has potential (albeit in the right hands with clear vision) but really seems to be somewhat in it's infancy as far as solid games (which is weird because instanced games came before MMOs when they were just regular retail box PC games).

I know it's a weird concept, but perhaps an instanced game can provide MORE immersion than a wandering sandbox like EO, if done correctly.

It certainly would be less costly to develop, and future content could possible take us in a similar direction (as opposed to the opposite, once you go expansive universe in game, you're not coming back, and trying to move in a new direction is akin to moving a universe, it's slow and painful).

Honestly, IMO starting small and growing in a direction that allows for the greatest gameplay experience is really the way to go, with the caveat that it may not be exactly what everyone wants.

Edited by Kaemon, 04 January 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Demi-Precentor Konev]

You're asking for a lot of mechanics that are standards of MMORPGs like WoW/AO/DAOC/etc.

But MWO is not that kind of game. We don't know much, but we do know that the devs have already said it won't be like those games. A more accurate representation would be to look at something like World of Tanks or Tribes: Ascend.

[SquareSphere]

I wouldn't doubt if the added a "pilots louge" or "planning room" before a drop but i doubt we'll see a full 3d environment were ALL players congrigate.

[VYCanis]

getting out on foot would be...problematic to say the least.

Here's a quick exercise to see how old that would very quickly get.

1. Go play MWLL
2. Eject from a mech somewhere in the middle of a map, at least a few klicks from your base
3. don't use your BA's jumpjets, at all, or any of your weapons.
4. and pretend that the first hint of damage turns you into chunky salsa instead of merely damaging you.
5. try to get back to base
6. now imagine doing this every time you eject.

Aside from that, adding on foot animations for pilots means that pilots need models, animation, rigging, texturing, that textures and level detail need to be bumped up in detail since you'll be viewing them up close, level design now suddenly has to factor being on foot, mech weapons have to be scaled back to not just immediately gib those squishy pilots running around without any effort,, and so on.

All that effort for something that doesn't really add to combat as dispossessed pilots are effectively non-issues when it comes to a battle. And chances are would get gibbed or stepped on immediately after ejecting since they would be too slow and vulnerable to get very far. (hence why MWLL gave everyone free battle armor)

remember, a dude on foot is moving at what, 15kph? and you've got what, lasers, acs, missiles, flame throwers, or PPCs?. They aren't going anywhere, unless you count the ashes on the wind or having to be scraped off a mech's heel "going somewhere"

Edited by VYCanis, 04 January 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Felbombling]

Commander: StaggerCheck, what are you doing? We need you up here at the front!

StaggerCheck: Right with ya, boss... I just need to mine this ferrofibrous node. I can take this ore and sell in on the AH for a ton of C-Bills!

Commander: How long you gonna be?

StaggerCheck: Not sure... I only have one hand actuator! brt


Nah... I like the game just as it is for now.

[Dlardrageth]

SquareSphere, on 04 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

I wouldn't doubt if the added a "pilots louge" or "planning room" before a drop but i doubt we'll see a full 3d environment were ALL players congrigate.

And chances are we could end up with a similar screwup as EVE-O's original "captain's quarters" were/are. Don't really care for that for the release version, push it back as an option for a later expansion, I say. Not like it is a core game mechanics which needs to work at release.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

We've already been told that they will be launching with the "Minimum Viable Product" ie the basics will be there but no frills. This definately comes under the term "frill". PGI just don't have the resources to produce an 80% there boxed product or they would have done that. It's why they've gone the PvP only F2P route. Having said that I'm sure that what we do have will be as good as they can get it. Quality over quantity. If we can help prove it's financially viable then I think we could see vast changes in the first year or so.

[Dlardrageth]

Well, considering this is the "Suggestions" subforum, we should perhaps strive to figure out what could be seen as a reasonable step in the direction of what the OP suggested. Quite obviously, a full-grown virtual environment with pilot avatars walking around is out of the question at game launch. Think of the costs, think of the resources for developing that, etc. That might be an option for... the future. Just take a look at how long CCP with EVE-Online worked on incorporating something like this and how far they have gotten (or rather haven't). We're talking about years of development work here potentially.

Having said that, what we might suggest to PGI with a bit of hope for realization, might be something on a far smaller level. I'm specifically thinking about some kind of "lobby", where you basically spend the time before/between battles, MechLab, etc. Something in the tradition of older MW games even, a bar perhaps, or just some big multi-purpose "room". Without player avatars and all the glitz, but still an unique atmosphere. Pick your own memories to find something suitable, perhaps the rugged bar in Mos Eisley from StarWars, perhaps something more fashionable like the one on the amusement ship in BSG before it got blown up or even the rowdy one from the movie Starship Troopers where the tatoo parlor was right next door.

I'm sure someone here on the forums has more experience with and knowledge about virtual reality programming than me, so correct me, if I'm wrong, please. But having some sort of semi-animated lobby where you can at least access options like MechLab/Hangar, MercNet newsfeeds and recruitment ads, a common "chatroom", maybe an in-game jukebox, and, who knows, maybe even a holovid terminal with not only battle replays but also the latest craze in Hula-girl dancing? That should be several degrees below walking avatars in terms of complexity and thus way easier to realize. Within PGI's currently set limits. And true to BT/MW's roots. Just take a look at this, specifically the part at about 1:20:

OLD MechWarrior SNES game

See? Got yourself a bar there (Don't mind the graphics, heh!) So somewhat upgraded with current technology an atmospheric lobby could be a first step towards the "full immersion environment" some crave. And if we get a little bit more with each new expansion, who is to say we might not end up with real pilot avatars at some point? It is just not a real option at game launch.

[Havoc2]

I don't see how running around outside of your 'Mech inside a spaceport adds anything to the immersion of the game.

If anything, it would take away from it for me. We're talking about MechWarrior Online, not BattleTech Universe (which would be AWESOME if someone tackled that and included damn near everything the BT universe had to offer, but F2P it would not be). I want to pilot my 'Mech around and shoot stuff, and even though I'd love some cinematics pre or post mission that would may be from the Avatar's point of view to help add scale to the size of these things, I'm sure after a dozen missions or so, they would get old.

Maybe instead of running around outside your cockpit there are some 30s cinematics that take place during the loading periods before and after matches?

Edited by }{avoc, 05 January 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

I don't think some of you take this game seriously enough. I AM a MechWarrior. My computer room is my Cockpit. When I kiss my kids sibko and wife genetics extender and pat them on their heads before bed, they know I might never come out, having fallen alseep in the chair passed out from exhaustion from hours on the field. A little guy running around breaks that immersion for me. I'm not a little guy on a screen, I"m a MechWarrior Dawg! I don't need you to put a mechwarrior in my Mechwarrior so I can Mechwarrior while I Mechwarror!

[Dihm]

Technoviking, on 05 January 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I"m a MechWarrior Dawg! I don't need you to put a mechwarrior in my Mechwarrior so I can Mechwarrior while I Mechwarror!

If they put in the conjectural "simulator", then you'd have a mechwarrior in your Mechwarrior in your mechwarrior in your Mechwarrior so you can Mechwarrior while you Mechwarrior.

[Stormvetprime]

Technoviking, on 05 January 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't think some of you take this game seriously enough.

I think some of you are missing my point. I'm not talking about any sort of meaningful BATTLE play out-of-cockpit as the pilot avatar in areas which are contested with the mechs. Those of you that have talked about how a pilot on foot would stand no chance agianst a mech or the lethal environs they fight in (unless the pilot has survivial treaining/gear like a modern day Air Force pilot) make very good points. The only reason I suggested a pilot avatar might be doing that is to eliminate the need for single-life-per-match but still have some sort of meaningful death penalty, that being the travel time back to base (or some other flavor within the limits of not just sitting there waiting on a timer).

What I meant was, if all this is going to be is one deathmatch after another how is it going to be any different that multiplayer mode other than perhaps some greater coordination of "lobby" management and not much else? That will be great for a few months then it will just be another boring sim under the old multiplayer paradigm with window dressing.

What I meant to get at was to have out-of-cockpit (and out of battlefield) play where one still does things RELATING to improving themselves as a pilot (the AO-like implants being a possible facet of this) and/or accruing the skills to make their own mech upgrades (crafting) or other forms of avatar-based play that ultimately provides for the betterment of the pilot, his mech, his lance, or his guild/clan.

THOSE are the things that make a persistent MMO a thing to come back to day after day AND will open up further F2P options for both players as well as the guys writing the software so they can keep getting paychecks and thus keep writing us new code.

But if all it is going to be is, Deathmatch. Deathmatch. Deathmatch. zzzzzz it's not going to be worth putting money into to very long as a player because it's going to get boring real fast.

[Mchawkeye]

it's not going to be all deathmatch deathmtach deathmatch.

There will be missions, objectives and all sorts to achieve.

And if you think blowing mechs up will put you to sleep...well, then I humbly suggest you have come to the wrong place....

[CeeKay Boques]

My response of " taking it seriously enough" was tongue in cheek.

This one isn't. The Forums, and whatever "MetaGame Battlemap" are that thing you are looking for. We don't need to walk around or craft anything.

In our planetary league, I was in charge of production, shipping, and some diplomatic duties as a member of the Keshik. This is all outside our internal Clan, where I organized our trials of position etc.

I moved troops, authorized mech deployment, and attack plans, all in a html interface. (NBT) I had meetings with other Keshik member over comms (and twice in person) deciding our next move and strategies. We made and broke alliances on the forums, and IRC That's the meta game. Its Social Networking, this is it. You, me, that guy over there. Social Mechworking. I don't need to see my lonely guy, on some backwater planet looking for Brian caches with a torch, or clicking "Forge" and watching some animation of my guy with a blowtorch on a mech. You are looking for the single player component of a Mulitplayer game. I'm not sure you need it. Let go of what WoW and MMORPGs has told us about how Online games should work... if you really need it, everything you are asking for can be done with a "skill tree", and if they're polished and classy, a cut scene.

I think you want to walk the world otherwise, you want more freedom. That's a different request.

[Lord Zoltar]

I think that they should get the game out there, and then expand on it. Keeping it basic for now is good. The way I look at it is that the mechanics for the "Simple" will be better than a bunch of CRAP that does not work. Look at Star Trek OnLine. Away missions SUCK.

[Durant Carlyle]

I think that the game should be BattleMechs and that's it. Having us, the puny little humans, getting out and doing other stuff isn't MechWarrior the computer game and never has been.

Just like with EVE Online where you basically are your ship, in this game you are your 'Mech. This isn't "The Sims: MechWarrior Edition." Our characters don't need to have a life outside of the battlefield.

[Rhinehart]

MWO has stated it will not be an MMORPG so I don't see it happening and will not expect it.

That being said I wish with every fiber of my being that someday we will see a true Battletech/Mechwarrior MMORPG produced that incorporates all the elements of this amazing universe.

It is great to see a post from another former Earth and Beyond player. I meself spent many an hour sailin me own Pirate Trade ship among tha star o that universe an' sore do I miss those bygone days of blown up ships, loot and rum in tha spaceport cantina's afterwards.

On a final note, for those that think the days of traditional MMORPGs are done, I'm playing SWTOR at the moment and have to say it's the most fun I've had multiplayer in a long, long time...