402 replies to this topic

[SoHxPaladin]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 July 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

We're way beyond having figured out it's working as intended, as you may have surmised 190 messages into the topic.. we're working on a solutions now.. but thanks for contributing

It's one thing to go against a premade of 2 to 4, a whole other thing to go against a premade of 12, 10, or even 8! I'm really tired of repeating myself so I'll just quote myself:

You're obviously not reading the posts. There are countless things wrong with mixing dedicated, hard-core 12-man groups and smaller, casual 2-4 players groups (2-4 player groups, for all intents and purposes, MIGHT AS WELL BE PUGS).

No respectable 12-man wants to go against pugs (cuz let's face it, a 2-3 man group might as well be pugging), and no small-groupers want to get stomped what looks like to be 3 or 4 games out of every 10.


Stop calling it whining when you don't agree with an opinion. That is infantile and reveals alot about your personality.

well that is what is happening, people are continually whining about being grouped with these "hardcore twelve mans" which is just a battlemech unit that is playing the game together, again, in the pug queue, and people are finding that teamwork is op...keep your whining up, pgi used to listen to it, but they seem to have stopped long ago.

[Wispsy]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 July 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

NO NO NO. You can't have 3 separate groups (no matter the skill level) fighting against one 'hive-minded' team loaded with arty/air strikes, working under one leader and most likely using teamspeak. Do you play this game at all!??

Yes, Yes I do and Yes you can. As I stated in the start, I was in a 3man group yesterday with a 4man of steiners and probably another group and we crushed a 10man. NOT EVERY 12 MAN GROUP IS AN ORGANISED HIVEMIND WHAT KIND OF HUMANS HAVE YOU BEEN OBSERVING IN THIS WORLD?!

[DAEDALOS513]

Wispsy, on 03 July 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Ah but you need to remember that is how you play. Plenty of times I have been in 2/3 man groups and have been playing very seriously with a true desire to win and the group skills to accomplish it. Also I have been in many a 12man that was just a group of friends messing about with random and often not very good builds and mechs. Basing matchmaker on your personal opinion of how serious people should be in different group sizes seems a tad short sighted to me. There are all kinds of people playing, with all kinds of mentalities.

THE POINT IS... 12 mans are MORE LIKELY going to consist of the more EXPERIENCE and HARD-CORE players. It took me 5-6 months of playing before deciding to drop in a 12 man. You CANNOT pit a 12-man or even a 10-man group against smaller 2-4 man size groups. IT DOESN'T WORK! Read all the frustrated posts from people dropping in 2-4 man size groups. I'm sure there will be more to come..

Wispsy, on 03 July 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Maybe if you read my reply you will realize it is not actually logic...there is no objectivity to it...it is simply and only his own preferences in style of play whilst grouping.

No you don't see what he is saying. If you drop a 2 man group in a 10 man team, they will have an enjoyable experience because a significant portion of the team is working under one leader.. the 2-man stray group can easily join and fight along the 10man group. Ofcourse that same team must go up against a similar team consisting of no more than 2 or 3 groups for it to be somewhat fair.

Ideally teams should be matched based not only tonnage and elo but also # of groups per side.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 July 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Wispsy]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 July 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

THE POINT IS... 12 mans are MORE LIKELY going to consist of the more EXPERIENCE and HARD-CORE players. It took me 5-6 months of playing before deciding to drop in a 12 man.

That is not necessarily the case. My first 8man was less then 2 weeks after I started the game (when it was 8mans) and I was probably the best player in the group. This is all you, just because you have some arbitrary number you stuck to, does not mean that anybody else will. Now that people can group up more freely, it will likely mean that more people start to make bigger groups for fun, as you do not need to exclude anybody and no longer need to pick and choose between who you hang out with. People can just jump on communal ts's and join a random pick up group and just chill out having fun, barely concentrating on winning or losing the game.

The reason 12mans were more likely to be experienced and hard-core players, was because going from 4 to 12 people and getting all of them to stick around whilst finding replacements and long queue times could be quite challenging, especially for the people just looking to mess around and have some fun with friends, with limited time.


Also...you have completely ignored the fact that I have dropped in smaller groups against much larger groups and won with ease...so it does work...you can do it...if it happens to be a little harder then dropping in a 3/4man of heavies/assaults and wrecking a load of solo players...well I do not see a problem with that. Not only that...but it is designed to only put together smaller groups as a last resort anyway.

Edited by Wispsy, 03 July 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

SoHxPaladin, on 03 July 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

==keep your whining up, pgi used to listen to it, but they seem to have stopped long ago.

No I find they are listening to us.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 July 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[QuimMorius]

Speaking as a Drop Commander and everyday 5-10 group pilot:

My 8 man group last night together with another premade on each match kicked 12man butt when we met them, don't see any problem with that. 12-man teams are going agaist 2-3 groups which are organized, not an easy challenge. We do full battlecoms with lights getting intel and doing formations, focus fire, large synced push moves and flanking manouvers on every game. We are having a blast even with the new 5-10 groups!

The challenge for the 12 man team you are opposing is that they normally try to stay together and they are up against smaller organized teams hitting them from several locations at the same time, and its hard for the 12-man lights to keep up with all the movements when it is spread over entire map.

Edited by QuimMorius, 03 July 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Jalik]

PGI has to make sure all players have the best _possible_ gaming experience. That's why the matchmaker will ALWAYS try to find a match for EVRYBODY within a reasonable (short as possible) waiting period. Yeah, a 12 man premade against a number of smaller sized groups is not fair. I fully agree. However, if there is no other 12 man premade looking for a match, the first 12 man premade won't be able to play. At least within the aforementioned reasonable waiting time. All players are customers after all and want to play the game the way they like. Maybe PGI can tweak the matchmaker to make it search longer for another 12 man premade or something. Give them some time to gather data and to do some statistics. This very special scenario probably didn't happen too often so far. So, your chances to face a 12 man premade are probably pretty low. And if it happens... don't wet your pants, soldier! Fight and die like a man!

[Commissar Aku]

You guys can whine and measure your PPCs all day if you want but there is one easy solution to both sides. Give in game voice communication. Personally I can't fight and type at the same time and neither can any of you, but you can use voice chat and fight at the same time, and in reality that is what we are all fighting about, 12 man teams have voice communication 4 man and smaller teams only have comms with the guys that they are teamed with, you can't say there are guys in B6 until 1 you are already dead or 2 die while typing, I don't have 3 hands and an extra keyboard so that I can fight while i type, and in fact if the chat is open you can't change directions while you type. If they are going to continue to place 12 man groups in with pugs and small groups they could at least try and give the smaller group not used to playing with 8 or more of their team mates a chance to not get splattered. For the record if the ELO system did work in any kind of fair way a 12 man would never fight against a small group to begin with.
I played yesterday in both small and large groups, in the small groups we came against 12 man every other game or so, but when we played in the larger groups 6 or more we almost always played against groups of the same size or smaller, never once against a 12 man group, how does that work?

[SoHxPaladin]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 July 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

No I find they are listening to us.

they do not listen to whining about a game mechanic that should be in the game.....remember, people ahve btiched since closed beta that the group play is non existant cuz the current groupings limit what units get to do. this game isnt just about solo players or the 2 man groups, and the community warfare will not be about it either. keep whining while they are getting that aspect implemented now so it doesn't "ruin your gaming experience" when everyone finally gets what we wanted 2 years ago, a reason to run with a merc unit, a house unit, a clan unit, and do some group play that counted for something

[DAEDALOS513]

Wispsy, on 03 July 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

Yes, Yes I do and Yes you can. As I stated in the start, I was in a 3man group yesterday with a 4man of steiners and probably another group and we crushed a 10man. NOT EVERY 12 MAN GROUP IS AN ORGANISED HIVEMIND WHAT KIND OF HUMANS HAVE YOU BEEN OBSERVING IN THIS WORLD?!

Friend, we can't speak in absolutes but only in likelihoods. The likelihood of that happening again (3 small groups CRUSHING a 12-man) is rare. Sure it will happen from time to time, but more often than not it won't. This is why people will stop playing the game because who enjoys being rolled in under 3 minutes?

Again, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, 12-mans are on teamspeak, loaded to the teeth with arty/air strikes, and have ONE LEADER. I truly can't repeat myself to you again.

[DAEDALOS513]

SoHxPaladin, on 03 July 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

they do not listen to whining about a game mechanic that should be in the game.....remember, people ahve btiched since closed beta that the group play is non existant cuz the current groupings limit what units get to do. this game isnt just about solo players or the 2 man groups, and the community warfare will not be about it either. keep whining while they are getting that aspect implemented now so it doesn't "ruin your gaming experience" when everyone finally gets what we wanted 2 years ago, a reason to run with a merc unit, a house unit, a clan unit, and do some group play that counted for something

At least 70% of this forum is saying otherwise. They never asked for small groups to drop against 12-man, 10-man, 8-man. It makes no sense and benefits only the hard-cores that enjoy stomping small-group teams.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 July 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Jon Nieve]

Hi,
I have just played a pair of games and I already got tired of it. We were a group of 2. Both games were small groups against a group of 10 and none of them last more than 4 minutes, you could see all enemy team shooting at the same guy if hr esd on sight.

I'll be back later when you fix this horrible grouping.

[Wispsy]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 July 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Friend, we can't speak in absolutes but only in likelihoods. The likelihood of that happening again (3 small groups CRUSHING a 12-man) is rare. Sure it will happen from time to time, but more often than not it won't. This is why people will stop playing the game because who enjoys being rolled in under 3 minutes?

Again, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, 12-mans are on teamspeak, loaded to the teeth with arty/air strikes, and have ONE LEADER. I truly can't repeat myself to you again.

It would not be rare if Elo were done properly and taken into account. Now that you can be a group of all sizes, larger groups are likely to be a lot less organised then what you used to see in the 12man queue back before lobbies. Even then there were an awful lot of bad 12mans in the queue.

[VixNix]

I was very much looking forward to the larger grouping, until it happened...

We are a group of casual players, that get together once a week, there are 3-6 of us, so old method we had to split up when more than four logged on and we occasionally found our friends on the opposite team, but now we end up fighting 12 mans.

So what I hear for us to have fun we all have to drop solo and pray we end up on the same team???

No, the answer has to be somewhere else...

[DAEDALOS513]

Wispsy, on 03 July 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

...Now that you can be a group of all sizes, larger groups are likely to be a lot less organised then what you used to see in the 12man queue back before lobbies.

Hopefully you are right. But even still, an unorganized 12man group will still likely stomp a even more unorganized team consisting of four 3-man groups.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 July 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Yeah...this isn't fun when you get rolled by 8 - 10, 12 men pre-mades that are coordinating via teamspeak. Will check back in a week and see if that still holds true...until then...

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 03 July 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Ironwithin]

VixNix, on 03 July 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

I was very much looking forward to the larger grouping, until it happened...

We are a group of casual players, that get together once a week, there are 3-6 of us, so old method we had to split up when more than four logged on and we occasionally found our friends on the opposite team, but now we end up fighting 12 mans.

So what I hear for us to have fun we all have to drop solo and pray we end up on the same team???

No, the answer has to be somewhere else...

There is a CHANCE you might drop against a full group of 12, it is not a certainty.
Also: They are just people like you, not god-like machines, some are better than others but if you shoot them they die.

Seriously ...people here make it out to be impossible to play any match without being stomped by some ambitious hardcore unit out there just waiting for pug-fodder. It is not, just give it a try.

Edited by Ironwithin, 03 July 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Ironwithin, on 03 July 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

There is a CHANCE you might drop against a full group of 12, it is not a certainty.
Also: They are just people like you, not god-like machines, some are better than others but if you shoot them they die.

Seriously ...people here make it out to be impossible to play any match without being stomped by some ambitious hardcore unit out there just waiting for pug-fodder. It is not, just give it a try.

According to my experience, and those of others here, there is more than just a 'chance' of dropping against a 10 or 12-man group.

Again I quote myself:

We can't speak in absolutes but only in likelihoods. The likelihood of that happening again (3 small groups beating a 12-man) is rare. Sure it will happen from time to time, but more often than not it won't. This is why people will stop playing the game because who enjoys being rolled in under 3 minutes?

Again, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, 12-mans are on teamspeak, loaded to the teeth with arty/air strikes, and have ONE LEADER

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 July 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Dear Ironwithin - you try playing against a large group that drops arty on you six or seven times in a game. I don't know if there's a solution, hopefully people smarter than me will figure out how to even the playing field.

[SoHxPaladin]

IM Bullwinkle, on 02 July 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

So if I want to drop with my daughter (never played before) in a group of 2 and we consistently go up against 12 groups, that's going to be sufficiently fun fer her to ever want to play again?

Just got dropped against Paladin, match was over in about three minutes. Well done. That was fun. For them. The 12 man drop.

you will not consistently get grouped against 12 mans in a 2 player group, your daughter will only learn to be better as she plays more matches and gets teaching from a competent player (assuming you are one), and during this learning time she will be in rickroll matches (whether she is grouped with you or not). yea the 12mans will wipe your ass off the map if you, the other team, do not work together. comms OP cuz teamplay OP, well, get on comms and join folks. how hard is it to go find people to play with? it aint hard at all, go to a teamspeak server that has been posted on this forum for any group of folks you would like to check out and play some matches with them, hell, get out of your "only my clan, unit" bubble and play with other folks in the community, it might broaden your horizons, god forbid.