372 replies to this topic

[Drasari]

1453 R, on 02 July 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yes. That is the solution.

Either find more friends, or get more awesome. Those are your options.

PIRANHA. HAS. NO. CHOICE. The playerbase demanded the ability to drop with groups of people between the quantities of 4 and 12, and this was the only way Piranha could deliver that without group drop wait times measured in minutes, double-digit variety. They knew this would be an issue, they told us this would be an issue, and by and large the playerbase said “WE DON’T CARE. NOT PLAYING WITH OUR FRIENDS IS A BIGGER ISSUE. FIX IT.”

So they did. And now they’re getting smacked for doing exactly what we told them to do.

So shut your clamhole and throw your weight behind better in-game group coordination. This game needs a command rose so bad it hurts, and if we had one, it would cut down on a lot of the griping people have when they get blasted by groups working in coordination.

And for God’s sake, STOP BLAMING THE MATCHMAKER FOR EVERY SINGLE LOSS YOU SUFFER EVER!

I think you need to get a clue. I'll get you the number for Hasbro. [color=#333333]

800-327-8264.

[/color]


Once again, I have plenty of people on my list.

But try reading this again....Sometimes I just want to drop in a 2-4. Get it this time? OK now the next part sine you seem to be having a hard time, I do not want to be in a 2-4 and go up against a 12-10 with other 2-4's making up the team. Still good? Keeping up?

But on topic; I am fine with group play but they need to go up against other groups. A group of 7 well the other team should have a group of 7. Simple. A group of 10 should go against a 10.

Edited by Drasari, 02 July 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Biaxialrain]

Players should only be allowed to drop solo.

Need your buddies and comms to compete? Too f'n' bad, suck it up.

There is no reason for there to be 8-12 man premade groups dropping against solo players/PUGs. It serves absolutely no purpose and in fact will dissuade future growth of the game.

Edited by Biaxialrain, 02 July 2014 - 01:41 PM.

[stevemac]

So before patch every stomp was evil premade sync drop. ( not your team scattering like cockroaches ) now after patch every loss is suddenly there was 12man on the other side in solo Q..... You ever think your team just sucked and you lost....

Edited by stevemac, 02 July 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Sephlock]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

This sure won't piss anyone off at all....

Honestly even if this is true- and I say this as someone who once referred to 12 mans as "dumb tryhards", they have been **** on for so long by PGI that I say "let them have their day in the sun."

At least they can find matches now.

The ones that are left, that is .

[Lyoto Machida]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

I think you need to get a clue. I'll get you the number for Hasbro.

800-327-8264.

Once again, I have plenty of people on my list.

But try reading this again....Sometimes I just want to drop in a 2-4. Get it this time? OK now the next part sine you seem to be having a hard time, I do not want to be in a 2-4 and go up against a 12-10 with other 2-4's making up the team. Still good? Keeping up?

But on topic; I am fine with group play but they need to go up against other groups. A group of 7 well the other team should have a group of 7. Simple. A group of 10 should go against a 10.

And with the 186 total people playing this game worldwide, queue times would shoot through the roof for groups.

gg clothes

[Mavairo]

1453 R, on 02 July 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yes. That is the solution.

Either find more friends, or get more awesome. Those are your options.

PIRANHA. HAS. NO. CHOICE. The playerbase demanded the ability to drop with groups of people between the quantities of 4 and 12, and this was the only way Piranha could deliver that without group drop wait times measured in minutes, double-digit variety. They knew this would be an issue, they told us this would be an issue, and by and large the playerbase said “WE DON’T CARE. NOT PLAYING WITH OUR FRIENDS IS A BIGGER ISSUE. FIX IT.”

So they did. And now they’re getting smacked for doing exactly what we told them to do.

So shut your clamhole and throw your weight behind better in-game group coordination. This game needs a command rose so bad it hurts, and if we had one, it would cut down on a lot of the griping people have when they get blasted by groups working in coordination.

And for God’s sake, STOP BLAMING THE MATCHMAKER FOR EVERY SINGLE LOSS YOU SUFFER EVER!

I can't wait to try out grouping in practice. Even if I get stuck in 3 4 mans against a fully organized 12.
At least I know the odds of getting a lance full (or worse more than a lance) full of window lickers scrumming around in charlie and bravo lances, and the other team getting saddled with dead even ELO players (making them a far superior team) is dramatically lower.

Edited by Mavairo, 02 July 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Drasari]

stevemac, on 02 July 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

So before patch every stomp was evil premade sync drop. ( not your team scattering like cockroaches ) now after patch every loss is suddenly there was 12man on the other side in solo Q..... You ever think your team just sucked and you lost....

stevemac, on 02 July 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

So before patch every stomp was evil premade sync drop. ( not your team scattering like cockroaches ) now after patch every loss is suddenly there was 12man on the other side in solo Q..... You ever think your team just sucked and you lost....

Oh man, read before you post. No every loss was not a 12man but its not hard to pick em out when they tell you at the start, and all have the same tags.

[Roadkill]

I thought from earlier posts that groups of 2-4 were going to get to choose which queue they wanted to drop in.

Solo queue: no more than one group per team, max group size 4, MM will attempt to match group size on teams, all subject to 4x3.

Group queue: no solo players or 11-person groups. Anything else is fine, subject to 4x3.

If small (2-4) groups don't get to choose their queue, then yeah this is busted. Guess I'll have to play solo until it gets fixed.

[Roland]

My premade group no longer has a clear advantage over people I play with! I am forced to fight other groups, who may even have an advantage over ME!

THIS IS CLEARLY UNACCEPTABLE.

[Drasari]

Roland, on 02 July 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

My premade group no longer has a clear advantage over people I play with! I am forced to fight other groups, who may even have an advantage over ME!

THIS IS CLEARLY UNACCEPTABLE.

You do know that 2-4 man were put against other 2-4 mans to balance it right? It's all I'm asking for with the 5-12.

[Heffay]

Roadkill, on 02 July 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

I thought from earlier posts that groups of 2-4 were going to get to choose which queue they wanted to drop in.

Solo queue: no more than one group per team, max group size 4, MM will attempt to match group size on teams, all subject to 4x3.

Group queue: no solo players or 11-person groups. Anything else is fine, subject to 4x3.

If small (2-4) groups don't get to choose their queue, then yeah this is busted. Guess I'll have to play solo until it gets fixed.

It's good they don't get to choose their queue. Running a 4 man group in the pug queue lead to artificially inflated Elos for people who ran those almost exclusively. Now they can't game the system, since they'll frequently be put into the group queue and their 4 man won't have as big of an impact.

Karl Berg made a number of posts about group Elo inflation. So yeah, people who were running 4 mans to get that 2500 Elo will now drop to a more accurate reflection of their actual skill, minus having a group prop them up. This is a very, very good thing.

[MischiefSC]

You guys almost got me fired. Wrong meeting to have been surfing on my phone, seen this and loled.

So premades vs pugs is totes legit but premade big teams vs small teams is mean.

That is pure awesome. Going to 12man up when I get home. I may be giggling over this for weeks.

[HBizzle]

This should expose how big an issue not having in game VOIP is.

[Roland]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

You do know that 2-4 man were put against other 2-4 mans to balance it right? It's all I'm asking for with the 5-12.

You play in a group, you play other groups.
That's how it should be.

The vast majority of the time, you're going to be playing against small groups. 12 man groups are going to be the exception, rather than the rule.

MischiefSC, on 02 July 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

You guys almost got me fired. Wrong meeting to have been surfing on my phone, seen this and loled.

So premades vs pugs is totes legit but premade big teams vs small teams is mean.

That is pure awesome. Going to 12man up when I get home. I may be giggling over this for weeks.

Exactly this... Some folks just like having an advantage, and never like to have any chance of being on the receiving end.

Deal with it folks.

[Zerberus]

Lyoto Machida, on 02 July 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

What's wrong with Skirmish?

"Wrong"? Nothing. But is entirely analogous in the "know what you wish for, or continue to relearn the same lesson" sense.

People advocated a "no way to end but timeout or annihilation" gamemode for literally months. Much like they were constantly lobbying for both a segregation of solo players and groups, and groups larger than 4, and weight class matching, before the original MM update in the launch module was introduced.

Which was, in teh case of skirmish, exactly what we had in Closed Beta. We eventually got so fed up with lights hiding that Assault was created. And teh MM would have also had to be a bit similar to CB, but completely different at the same time.

We told the skirmish advocates this, in no uncertain terms, literally dozens if not hundreds of times. Just as Paul relayed the issues and concerns regarding the MM months ago in a still pinned dev post (at least I think it is..).

It fell on deaf ears in both cases.

Lo and behold, Dec 18th rolls around, "our" prayers are answered, skirmish is implemented. Or the 2nd of July comes, "our" prayers are answered, and the new MM with almost everything "we" wanted is rolled out

And what do we have about 2 months of constant whining about?

Hiding lights on skirmish, for any number of reasons from cowardice to wasting time to intentional trolling to no weapons left and doesnt realize he can`t win to ....

And now the new MM. Almost exclusively about things that were explicitly stated to be more or less unsolvable issues.

The parallels are, well, quite obvious, and it doesn`t paint a particularly sane picture of this community

Edited by Zerberus, 02 July 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Heffay, on 02 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Karl Berg made a number of posts about group Elo inflation. So yeah, people who were running 4 mans to get that 2500 Elo will now drop to a more accurate reflection of their actual skill, minus having a group prop them up. This is a very, very good thing.

A very good thing indeed...now I won't have to face players above my skill level as much, just because I ran in a group for some drops.

[Roadkill]

Heffay, on 02 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

It's good they don't get to choose their queue. Running a 4 man group in the pug queue lead to artificially inflated Elos for people who ran those almost exclusively. Now they can't game the system, since they'll frequently be put into the group queue and their 4 man won't have as big of an impact.

A single group of 4 - paired opposite a similar group of 4 on the other team - with 8 pugs is much less of an impact than the pre-patch state where there were often two 4s and a 3 on the same team.

I'd hope that groups in the solo queue would be paired against similar Elo enemies, then the solos would be filled in to continue keeping the Elo balanced.

Yeah, I agree that Elo inflation could be a problem, but I don't see it as sufficient argument against allowing small groups to choose which queue they wish to drop in.

[Jman5]

Now all you 2-4 group players understand what it was like playing as a solo player against premades. Not so fun when you can't exclusively beat up on disorganized lone wolves is it?

Man, solo queue has never been this good!

Edited by Jman5, 02 July 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Heffay]

Roadkill, on 02 July 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

A single group of 4 - paired opposite a similar group of 4 on the other team - with 8 pugs is much less of an impact than the pre-patch state where there were often two 4s and a 3 on the same team.

I'd hope that groups in the solo queue would be paired against similar Elo enemies, then the solos would be filled in to continue keeping the Elo balanced.

Yeah, I agree that Elo inflation could be a problem, but I don't see it as sufficient argument against allowing small groups to choose which queue they wish to drop in.

Because even small group (2-4) have inflated Elos. Now they will have Elos that more accurately reflect their skill levels, playing against other people whose Elos more accurately reflect their skill levels, in better balanced matches. Everybody wins. Except the people who ran 4 man meta groups exclusively to get that 90% win rate. That wasn't an accurate reflection of their skill. It was them taking advantage of the system.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

You do know that 2-4 man were put against other 2-4 mans to balance it right? It's all I'm asking for with the 5-12.

Too often this was not the case. 2-man groups put against two full 4-mans etc. MM was far from perfect even then.

Also you have to take the tonnage into consideration. While the 12-man group is strictly restricted to 3/3/3/3, the 3 4-man groups are likely not. So you could have matches like 6 heavies, 2 assaults, 3 medium, 1 light against 3/3/3/3 12-man company. That means that the opposite team has the advantage by tonnage and if they are somewhat able players, they will take down the 12-man group. Just like the days 12-man queue leaked into PUGs. We won many 12-mans then just because of our tonnage advantage. (Based on experience, we dropped 10-man and the 2-man who was added to our team was not following the 3/3/3/3 rule).