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It's Time To Re-Fix The Gauss Rifle.

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#1 nehebkau

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:21 AM

Now, I loved the Gauss rifle in the MW games. Low heat, great range, great damage. It was my go-to weapon specially on the MKII.

In MWO, I was equally in love with the gauss for the exact same reasons. I would slap a couple on a muro and giggity my way through the battlefield. When the Gauss timing nerf/change came in to effect – I hated it but I could understand it. Having been on the receiving end of a few of those heavy hits I knew how they negatively affected how the game was enjoyed by people playing lights or mediums (and even some heavies) I understood the crappy pop-tarting tactic was hurting the game play so I really didn’t cry too hard with the change.

Now I struggled with the new gauss until a friend told me to make use of my fancy mouse and keyboard and write an auto-fire macro for my gauss. It was easy and it made the gauss work like a dream again. Oddly (maybe cause I am getting old) I felt kind of guilty about using a macro so I stopped using it and also stopped using the gauss on most builds.

But I digress, to the point eh? I believe with the clan mechs and the use of firing/timing macros that it’s time to make a change to gauss again. Here are the changes I think we need:
  • Remove Charge timer from Gauss rifles
  • Remove the linked fire mechanics
  • Add HEAT to Gauss rifles – same mechanics as a regular PPC (not an ERPPC)
  • Increase Health of gauss to 10.
  • Get rid of the gauss explodes when destroyed
Why? Well, boating and tarting. We are all aware of the Gauss PPC Meta that going around. I’ve used it on my DWF and it rocks the gauss/ppc, and it’s not good for the game. I always thought the heat issue of a gauss was rather odd since it requires a cartload of cooling (i.e. removing heat) to get superconductivity and that heat has to be dissipated somewhere and firing a hypervelocity slug produces a ton of heat as it creates plasma in front of it as it pulverizes the atmosphere. After every shot the magnets need to be supercooled again requiring removing a ton of heat again. Removing the firing timer would eliminate the gauss benefit gained (and it’s a huge gain – I’ve tried it) from using a gauss firing macro. Heat on the same level as a PPC rather than an ERPPC would account for having to carry ammo and having lower hit points was just put there to provide a counterbalance to it having almost no heat as was the 90% explode attribute.


It seems to me, no matter how much I detest it, that heat is the only equalizer that seems to be working when balancing DPS in this game and its time we recognize it.

Edited by nehebkau, 09 July 2014 - 11:21 AM.


#2 Dymlos2003

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:22 AM

Ugh another one of these threads. It doesn't need these things removed!

#3 Solahma

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

Just because something is effective doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. I agree with promoting diversity, but I have no complaints about the cERPPC + cGauss at the moment.

#4 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

You don't need a macro to use the Gauss (even in mid air)...just some reflexes. Though, I'm sure some of you older folks are a little slower than you used to be, it doesn't mean you can't adapt.

#5 Noth

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

View Postnehebkau, on 09 July 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Now, I loved the Gauss rifle in the MW games. Low heat, great range, great damage. It was my go-to weapon specially on the MKII.

In MWO, I was equally in love with the gauss for the exact same reasons. I would slap a couple on a muro and giggity my way through the battlefield. When the Gauss timing nerf/change came in to effect – I hated it but I could understand it. Having been on the receiving end of a few of those heavy hits I knew how they negatively affected how the game was enjoyed by people playing lights or mediums (and even some heavies) I understood the crappy pop-tarting tactic was hurting the game play so I really didn’t cry too hard with the change.

Now I struggled with the new gauss until a friend told me to make use of my fancy mouse and keyboard and write an auto-fire macro for my gauss. It was easy and it made the gauss work like a dream again. Oddly (maybe cause I am getting old) I felt kind of guilty about using a macro so I stopped using it and also stopped using the gauss on most builds.

But I digress, to the point eh? I believe with the clan mechs and the use of firing/timing macros that it’s time to make a change to gauss again. Here are the changes I think we need:
  • Remove Charge timer from Gauss rifles
  • Remove the linked fire mechanics
  • Add HEAT to Gauss rifles – same mechanics as a regular PPC (not an ERPPC)
  • Increase Health of gauss to 10.
  • Get rid of the gauss explodes when destroyed
Why? Well, boating and tarting. We are all aware of the Gauss PPC Meta that going around. I’ve used it on my DWF and it rocks the gauss/ppc, and it’s not good for the game. I always thought the heat issue of a gauss was rather odd since it requires a cartload of cooling (i.e. removing heat) to get superconductivity and that heat has to be dissipated somewhere and firing a hypervelocity slug produces a ton of heat as it creates plasma in front of it as it pulverizes the atmosphere. After every shot the magnets need to be supercooled again requiring removing a ton of heat again. Removing the firing timer would eliminate the gauss benefit gained (and it’s a huge gain – I’ve tried it) from using a gauss firing macro. Heat on the same level as a PPC rather than an ERPPC would account for having to carry ammo and having lower hit points was just put there to provide a counterbalance to it having almost no heat as was the 90% explode attribute.



It seems to me, no matter how much I detest it, that heat is the only equalizer that seems to be working when balancing DPS in this game and its time we recognize it.


The lower hit points was put there to help move guass away from being viable in a brawl (charge delay also helped with this as well). The 90% explosion was added to make up for the fact that its ammo does not explode.

What you are basically suggesting here is to turn Guass into another heavy and ammo dependent PPC. Nothing you suggest would help the game in a meaningful way.

#6 Solahma

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

Your solutions create more problems as well...

#7 Scratx

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:27 AM

OP, you are insane if you think those suggestions won't break the game.

You really want Dire Wolves snap-firing in brawls _3_ gauss rifles while still having room for ammo and energy weapons? Or trivially sniping with 3 gauss.

*shudders*

#8 Solahma

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:30 AM

3 Gauss Rifles?

ahem... :D

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9736fd8d528b4f2

#9 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostScratx, on 09 July 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

OP, you are insane if you think those suggestions won't break the game.

You really want Dire Wolves snap-firing in brawls _3_ gauss rifles while still having room for ammo and energy weapons? Or trivially sniping with 3 gauss.

*shudders*


Posted Image

#10 Sephlock

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostScratx, on 09 July 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

OP, you are insane if you think those suggestions won't break the game.

You really want Dire Wolves snap-firing in brawls _3_ gauss rifles while still having room for ammo and energy weapons? Or trivially sniping with 3 gauss.

*shudders*

Yes.

More dakka = good.

The Dire Wolf should be a huge weapons rack (like the ones from The Matrix, but all stacked on top of each other) on top of two legs.



Anything that faces it should die in a metal storm.

#11 Graugger

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:40 AM

View PostSolahma, on 09 July 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:



LOL!!!

I say we give the OP what he wants so he's happy even though it would completely wreck the game... though I'm not sure how you wreck something that can't even get its engine started :D

#12 Revis Volek

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:45 AM

Ok, play one round against my Torthkin in his Quad-guass DireWhale and tell me you still want these changes.....

#13 Captain Katawa

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

As much as I like Gauss you propose changing it into AC15 or something.
It's supposed to be cold, fragile and explode by battletech lore.
What I want is just old Gauss back but well the game must be too broken for this.
You know what will actually save the day? Hardpoint size/subhardpoint sistem but yhis ain't gonna happen.
BTW my take on this topic is that if you just bring back tho old gauss for inner sphere nothing horrible will happen.
Moreover, threatened by Dire Wolf menace IS mechs pretty much need it.

#14 Livewyr

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

Admittedly I stopped reading when I read "Add Heat to the Gauss Rifle."

That is one of its defining characteristics as a Gauss Rifle.

#15 Jman5

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:25 PM

View PostSephlock, on 09 July 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Anything that faces it should die in a metal storm.

Maybe if this was a single player game or one where it was difficult/rare/expensive to obtain the direwolf I could get behind it, but that's not the game we have. Anyone and everyone can (or will soon be able to) pilot one of these, so you have to balance it properly at the expense of lore. I strongly disagree that it should just kill every other mech it faces.

#16 Sephlock

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:31 PM

View PostJman5, on 09 July 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Maybe if this was a single player game or one where it was difficult/rare/expensive to obtain the direwolf I could get behind it, but that's not the game we have. Anyone and everyone can (or will soon be able to) pilot one of these, so you have to balance it properly at the expense of lore. I strongly disagree that it should just kill every other mech it faces.

It IS awfully slow and ungraceful :D.

#17 Solahma

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

View PostSephlock, on 09 July 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

It IS awfully slow and ungraceful :D.

360 Head Shot in approximately 6 seconds :D

#18 Sephlock

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

If I finally manage to stomp my way into range of an enemy mech on Alpine, I deserve a shot at killing it before it vanishes over the horizon, which would be the last I would ever see of it unless the pilot decided otherwise,

:D.

#19 AntiCitizenJuan

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

bad troll

#20 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

The Gauss exploding easily and for a lot of damage is both an effective balance mechanic and flavorful and true to both fiction and TT. Back when Double-Gauss was the meta, it was essentially balanced with nothing but the fragility and explosiveness to mitigate all its advantages.

The only reason for the charge-up mechanic was the synergy of Gauss/PPC, with several key builds (mostly poptarts) were abusing. PGI's solution only slightly increased the skill cap for using the Gauss/PPC combo (and it's been making a significant return lately with the advent of Clan cGauss/cERPPC poptart Mad Cats).

I have a series of suggestions. Any one might well be sufficient in itself to allow for the removal of the Gauss charge mechanic, among other things, but the more that PGI adopts the better.

1 - Dynamic Precision Reduction. Apply a dynamically-changing reduction in weapon precision (accuracy is still perfect; shots deviate around the aim point by a scaling amount). Have throttle %, heat %, and stability state (JJs on/off, on/off the ground, recently received impulse, etc.) all apply small, stacking modifiers to the real-time DPR rating of a mech.

2 - PPC damage arcing. The cERPPC mechanic is a good starting place, but I figure it's not quite enough, and in addition should be applied to the IS PPC/ERPPC as well. Leave it how it is until PGI gets the hit registration kinks worked out, then add it to the other PPC varieties and tweak the numbers. I favor 9/3/3 for the cERPPC and 6/2/2 for the PPC and ERPPC as starting values.

3 - Cooldown overhaul. To promote weapon specialization, I suggest that PGI give weapons designed for close quarters battle an edge in refire rate. However, given the already-short time to kill that MWO suffers from, rather than buffing Pulse Lasers and SRMs, I suggest PGI do a rework of cooldown timers overall. I favor leaving standard SRMs and all Pulse lasers where they are, while adding between 0.50 and 2.00s to all other weapons. The Gauss, for instance, could lose the charge time and get a flat +2.00s cooldown increase. It'd actually gain both sniper and snap-fire performance, while losing an element of CQB effectiveness (further allowing the AC20 to compete against it, for instance). PPCs might gain a 1.0s cooldown, while ERPPCs and cERPPCs might gain 1.25s. SSRMs would move to a full 1.00s increase over the equivalent standard SRM launcher (leaving standard SRMs a clear winner in raw damage output while keeping SSRMs as a more reliable way to hit difficult targets). Autocannons and both standard and ER lasers would need changes as part of this rework, as would LRMs.

4 - MG buff, LB AC buff, and Flamer rework. If PGI wants to keep the base damage of MGs at 0.80 per shot, then they should increase the critical multiplier to compensate. LB ACs have needed a bump in damage per pellet for a long time; I advocate trying 1.1 or 1.2 for a month or so and seeing what happens. Finally, the Flamer is terrible as-is, and is especially egregious right now since all the Puma drivers out there are forced to carry one. I say, take a lesson from MechCommander and rework Flamers entirely. Make them a short-range energy FLD weapon. Give them 5 damage for 5 heat, with 5 heat inflicted to the target. Set them at a 120m range with no bonus maximum or damage fall off. Give them a Cooldown that matches the cooldown plus burn time of the Medium Laser (4.00s unless PGI does #3 above). cFlamers should be the same only with just 4 heat inflicted (to help compensate for the half ton lower weight).

Do pretty much any one of the above and PGI can start reverting some of the more onerous mechanical changes they've made over the years, including the Gauss charge mechanic. Done more than one, or better yet all of them, would allow PGI potentially to roll back even the entire Ghost Heat system.

Finally, a bonus fifth change that would not directly impact the Gauss and so is less relevant to this thread, but still part of my overall suite of suggestions.

5 - Universal burst-fire ACs. Set IS ACs to 4-round bursts with 0.10s between shots in a burst. Set cACs to 6-round bursts with 0.12s between shots in a burst. This leaves IS ACs a sizeable advantage in burst time (0.30s instead of 0.60s), as well as damage per shot (Rating/4 instead of Rating/6). It also mitigates somewhat the overwhelming advantage of pure pinpoint FLD that IS ACs currently enjoy.





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