23 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

12man groups need to be fighting 12 man groups. I do not see why that was changed.

Was just in a match with a 4man group.. ended up with 3x 4mans against a 12 man. It reminded me of the end of Closed Beta, when we went into Open Beta with 8man stomp teams trolling about.

This is not a good thing.

(I did as well as could be expected.. 360dmg.. where the next highest was 250 and and most were 100 or lower. It is not as though they were bad players, but when you have a coordinated 12man assault against three smaller groups, there is little to be done. We cannot communicate fast enough, nor would it be as effective if we could.)

12mans need to fight 12mans.

[Gyrok]

Yes, it was an epic battle, well played, you should have seen the 3x4 mans we ran into earlier that consisted of 3 assaults + 1 heavy each...we were out tonned by about 400-500 tons, we fought hard, but it was nigh impossible to burn down 3 atlases, 4 dire wolves, 2 warhawks, 2 timber wolves, and a cataphract 3D. We lost that one 12-5...

Group queue is fine...

[Livewyr]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yes, it was an epic battle

Surely you jest.

Unless of course you mean, by epic battle, a massive blob of 12 people on comms calling individual targets and disintegrating them as you roll through. (Something you would likely not do, if you had known you were fighting another organized 12man.)

[Fang01]

Played a lot of twelves tonight. Generally tight well fought matches that went either way. A couple stomps, yes but plenty of stomp losses too. I agree. Group cue is fine as is now

[Goose]

Games that wern't stomps … where not as close as the score would lead you to believe.

The programed check-downs out of a good match work, but they are not a worthy goal …

[EvilCow]

The new queue is a huge improvement, almost always you find yourself with competent team mates and a competent enemy team, there are few exceptions of course but it is much better on average.

Thanks PGI, this is late but welcome, I had more fun yesterday than in the last 12 months.

Edited by EvilCow, 03 July 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Honestly, coming across the occasional full 12 while not a full 12 is like snipe hunting. But coming across 3 4-mans while having all PUGs like the days of old, which was quite common, are now finally gone.

[Vassago Rain]

It is good that people are playing again.

[Monkey Lover]

Im loving that 4 man groups are getting their butts kick by 12 man. Now they can see how it feels .No more 4ddc drops killing all the noobs.

[Aresye]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yes, it was an epic battle, well played, you should have seen the 3x4 mans we ran into earlier that consisted of 3 assaults + 1 heavy each...we were out tonned by about 400-500 tons, we fought hard, but it was nigh impossible to burn down 3 atlases, 4 dire wolves, 2 warhawks, 2 timber wolves, and a cataphract 3D. We lost that one 12-5...

Group queue is fine...

No, it really isn't.

Tell me, how many games did your 12man group absolutely demolish? I played with a group of 8 that grew into a 10 over the course of a couple hours and we were obliterating every single team we came across. Never faced a 12man team. The largest group we saw on the other team was a group of 6 while we were 9, and the only reason they won was because they base capped us just before the remaining 10 members of our team descended on them at once.

Next game we were a group of 9, and the other 3 players on our team deliberately decided to not play at all because they were butthurt over the MM system and didn't want to partake in the stomp. Fair enough. The 9 of us alone wiped face of all 12 on the other team.

Group disparity is a huge issue with the new matchmaker. You might get an equal sized group or team that massively outweighs you every 10-15 games or so, but every single one of those other games is usually a group of 4 max, and they are absolutely no match to a well coordinated group of 8 or more.

This is an issue for both sides. It may be nice to go on a stompy win streak, but it's completely detrimental to unit practice. It doesn't prepare you for 12v12 competitive drops that you see in leagues, and (if anything) it actually will make your unit perform worse in a competitive environment, because your gameplay and tactics are being used against uncoordinated teams that will not work in a competitive environment.

For the record, I'm not saying this because we got stomped. I'm saying this because we NEVER got stomped tonight, and the only match we lost was because of a base cap.

I'm all for winning, but winning isn't worth it when you can tell just in the first day that you're already losing the edge and becoming complacent. Doing this long term is setting up bad habits for units wanting to play competitively. I'd rather have my guys practicing 4man drops against full 12mans instead of the other way around. One challenges them and helps them improve as players. The other makes them complacent and gives them false sense of confidence, ultimately making them worse.

*EDIT*
To avoid confusion, when I say, "your unit," I'm talking all units overall, not your unit in particular. Just wanted to clear that up because in a couple areas it may sound like it was personally directed to you, and it's not.

Edited by Aresye, 03 July 2014 - 01:22 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Monkey Lover, on 03 July 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Im loving that 4 man groups are getting their butts kick by 12 man. Now they can see how it feels .No more 4ddc drops killing all the noobs.

No, it's triple banshees with a cataphract. Not often a different outcome.

My favorite this patch is the clan wolf tagged guys who will start the game with macro'd text, then when they get blown up, they say nothing.

gg no rebatchalls, unless you're gud, then I will rebatchall you any time, anywhere.

[Aresye]

Vassago Rain, on 03 July 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

No, it's triple banshees with a cataphract. Not often a different outcome.

My favorite this patch is the clan wolf tagged guys who will start the game with macro'd text, then when they get blown up, they say nothing.

gg no rebatchalls, unless you're gud, then I will rebatchall you any time, anywhere.

You DARE to refuse my REBATCHALL?!

[RockmachinE]

One question guys, since this is pretty much on topic. How do you know who's playing together? Do you just assume or is there actually a way to tell who's in a group? So far I haven't seen this indicated anywhere and I also haven't played after the patch yet.

[Lexx]

Keep in mind when you make a larger group you are limited to 3 of each weight class. When the game puts smaller groups together you could possibly end up with up to 9 assault mechs on one side. Your smaller group technically has an advantage right now against larger groups if the game matches you up with other groups running larger mechs. I don't see that there is anything to be crying about here.

Edited by Lexx, 03 July 2014 - 02:18 AM.

[627]

Louis Brofist, on 03 July 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

One question guys, since this is pretty much on topic. How do you know who's playing together? Do you just assume or is there actually a way to tell who's in a group? So far I haven't seen this indicated anywhere and I also haven't played after the patch yet.

just ask.

Faction icons are an indicator but not always. And if you're in a 9man, there's only one way to fill your group up

Edited by 627, 03 July 2014 - 02:15 AM.

[warner2]

-

Edited by warner2, 03 July 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[Vercinaigh]

Vassago Rain, on 03 July 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

No, it's triple banshees with a cataphract. Not often a different outcome.

My favorite this patch is the clan wolf tagged guys who will start the game with macro'd text, then when they get blown up, they say nothing.

gg no rebatchalls, unless you're gud, then I will rebatchall you any time, anywhere.

That was my unit, and we said GG, way to hyperbole. Also, good for you that you won a match, keep it up and you might make 2 in a whole day! We were on our 30th by the time you ever saw us, finished the day like 60-3, hell we are the group the OP fought and made this post over! Good day to you sir, also, 1v1 any day, or of course, you could get your "team" to come fight Golden Keshik....but, I doubt you'll take that challenge. o/

Lexx, on 03 July 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

Keep in mind when you make a larger group you are limited to 3 of each weight class. When the game puts smaller groups together you could possibly end up with up to 9 assault mechs on one side. Your smaller group technically has an advantage right now against larger groups if the game matches you up with other groups running larger mechs. I don't see that there is anything to be crying about here.

Actually 12's -can- match against groups of any size or amount. And it happened plenty today.

Side note, I think the new queue is broken as ****, was a awful idea, and I'll never understand why so many asked for it, well, now you reap what you sow. GK (Unit of the team Big Bad Wolves), House of Lords (Rep to Adi), SJR (Sup Jager), 228th and of course SWK, and many more friends welcome you to the new PUGLyfe.

Edited by Vercinaigh, 03 July 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[Grifthin]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yes, it was an epic battle, well played, you should have seen the 3x4 mans we ran into earlier that consisted of 3 assaults + 1 heavy each...we were out tonned by about 400-500 tons, we fought hard, but it was nigh impossible to burn down 3 atlases, 4 dire wolves, 2 warhawks, 2 timber wolves, and a cataphract 3D. We lost that one 12-5...

Group queue is fine...

You would have had just as many assaults as the enemy. You should have anyways.

[-Natural Selection-]

My view on this changed in one night. The first 2 of3 matches we were dropped against was a 12 man. Oh we got rolled.. And quickly posted I thought they should be in their own drop. But as the night went on our group and the groups with us started communicating more. Our guys thinking more about the mechs they were dropping in (not just gimmick builds).

We ended up facing 12 mans 4 more times through the night. 2 we beat, 2 we lost. 1 loss was a roll, the other was 9-12. I feel good about both losses as it was a good experience.

While even some of the guys I was with grumbled about facing the 12 mans, I look forward to facing them occasionally. Just to see how our group is progressing and how the other is operating.

Edited by Dozier, 03 July 2014 - 02:37 AM.

[RAM]

Grifthin, on 03 July 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

You would have had just as many assaults as the enemy. You should have anyways.

Not how the group queue works.


RAM
ELH

Edited by RAM, 03 July 2014 - 09:54 AM.