467 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

point being, rule of 3 fixes none of this. It's not going to change this. It can't. If you take away the release valves (well we saw what that did) wait times are too long, if you put in release valves you've just defeated the whole purpose in the first place.

[Bishop Steiner]

Livewyr, on 03 July 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

I blame my 2ASRM6/3SSRM6 SCR D.

if you do that, I blame bad light pilots. Seriously haven't seen many of those, and the ones that did, really didn't scare me. Usually they got one volley off, spread all over my mech, and I was out of reach before their weapons cycled again in 7 seconds. SSRM6s spread that damage all over the place. If you ever have the RNG Gods smile on you, and they cluster tight, they can be dangerous, but that happens so rarely it's a joke.

Now the Oxide that was just as fast as me, and cycling out WAY more DPS through 4 SSRM2, nonstop? Him I still worry bout a lot more in my Light mechs.

I don't pretend to have all the differing facets of the reasons Lights are less, but if it's the "dreaded SSRM6", then most Light pilots really are in the Underhive. PP-FLD, I can buy into. Lots of people playing Clan MEchs, and the relatively MEH-ness of the Lights mean people playing heavier units, I can buy into. People not able to comp for leg/fall damage, (or it being legit bugged, IDK which, TBH). Or a number of other facets?

But SSRM6 Stormcorws? Haven't seen it, and the few times I have seen them, or tried them, they were far les effective than simply piling 5 SSRM2, or 5 aSRM6.

[Gorgo7]

Wow! What a bunch of disgruntled old men
"Remember the old days when Ravens ruled the world! That was keen!"
Lots of complaints, no solutions, a few generalizations.
Lack of lights isn't a problem.
Do you think it is a problem? Why? Lack of lights in not a problem.
Additionally, this is an optimal time to run lights. NO COMPETITION. Other lights and mediums are what kills lights, not assaults and heavies.
My best scores and earnings are from lights and mediums in just this environment. Nothing like supporting an assault. Nothing! Try that.
Most Lights blast off and you never see them again. Those that remain and support the main line are golden. It's a skill called teamwork and if anyone in the game can do it it is a light with their control of mobility. Further, as a class they have a lock on ECM. Their value to a mainline is extreme. Yet the light pilots run away and die alone....
As a result the early players try the lights and get out of them because fighting with the mainline is slow and requires patience. The rewards if they do so are super. If others see more lights hanging with the mainline maybe there will be more who try them.
Set an example. Be visible.

[Lootee]

Giving light mechs (and fast mediums like CDA) rewards for things they do well that other classes are ill suited for would help.

When I do well in a medium or heavy mech I get paid 250-285k c-bills.

When I do well in a light that isn't fitted for straight combat I get paid 60-100k.

There needs to be more and better rewards for non-combat lights. Pay for being the first to target an enemy and assign it a letter. Pay light pilots hazard pay for kilometers traveled on the map. Pay lights a survival bonus. Narc strike bonus for hitting a mech. Narc helps out your team whether you have LRM boats or not. Likewise cancelling an enemy ECM with narc should pay too. Capping conquest points in a light should have a unique payout specific to the class.

The only major reward in this game is for blowing stuff up and Role Warfarce is a joke. The only real role is HULK SMASH, everything else has a pitiful payout. Unless light specific noncombat damage related rewards are added you will never see many light mechs except those geared for either in-your-face combat (jr, fs) or stealthy combat (sdr, com, rvn).

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 03 July 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Adiuvo, on 03 July 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

After so many people have told me that I've finally learned the truth man.

I had to give up on that thread. It was not productive.

[Sandpit]

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Do you think it is a problem? Why? Lack of lights in not a problem.

PGI and the majority of the community disagree with you but ok

[Demoncard]

There's a simple fix. Put an exp/cbill multiplier on the classes that vary depending on how many players there are running that class. If it dips below 25%, people who play it get more or something.

It would be nice if they gave a flat out bonus in C-bill and XP for the underpopulated weight classes. Positive reinforcement.

Edited by Demoncard, 06 July 2014 - 04:22 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

It would be nice if they gave a flat out bonus in C-bill and XP for the underpopulated weight classes. Positive reinforcement.

[Sandpit]

Sean von Steinike, on 03 July 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

It would be nice if they gave a flat out bonus in C-bill and XP for the underpopulated weight classes. Positive reinforcement.

I suggested lower prices on the unpopular mechs. Cheap mechs = more bought = more on the battelfield.
Higher prices on popular mechs. Expensive mechs = less bought = less on the battlefield.

That's exactly how one of the campaign servers for MM did along with other things like inflated and deflated Elo based on that mech's performance in the campaign across all pilots. Same with BV values.

Until there is something of an incentive and reason to take those mechs, what you have now, what you've had for nearly 2 years, will be what you have for the next 5 years.

[Caviel]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

point being, rule of 3 fixes none of this. It's not going to change this. It can't. If you take away the release valves (well we saw what that did) wait times are too long, if you put in release valves you've just defeated the whole purpose in the first place.

Except with UI 2.0 and the way the valves work, they can adjust them until they hit a "happy" medium without any patching or downtime. I would be surprised if they are not implementing adjustments based on yesterdays activities right now as I am typing this...

[Sandpit]

Caviel, on 03 July 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Except with UI 2.0 and the way the valves work, they can adjust them until they hit a "happy" medium without any patching or downtime. I would be surprised if they are not implementing adjustments based on yesterdays activities right now as I am typing this...

which has absolutely nothing to do with getting more players wanting to take lights and/or mediums...

[Prezimonto]

This is the real issue. Lights (and many mediums) need ways to earn both cbills and XP that don't rely on pure combat ability.

I'd like to see Lights (at least some lights light locust/spider/raven) get a quirk that multiplies the support role XP and cbills earned by around 2x. I think Jenners and Embers are mostly designed with combat in mind, but a smaller selection of bonuses still would still be nice. Mediums might receive a 1.5x or 2x bonus on certain actions as well (chassis and variant dependent).

A quirk I'd love to see is a free UAV on light mechs designed to scout like the locusts/Spider 5V... just give those variants a free UAV every match, if they want to pay for a second one... sure.

[Sandpit]

i don't know about a free UAV but scout specific modules would help. Modules that are strictly limited to certain chassis. Locust would be a lot more popular if it had a "scout specialist" module or skill that allowed the pilot certain advantages unavailable in another chassis and/or weight class.

mech Commander did something similar to this with things like "scout specialist" which increased sensor range. Recon specialist could increase speed or reduce your mech's signature effectively reducing enemy sensor ranges for you and only you.

Stuff like that will help. rule of 3 not gonna get it done

[Caviel]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

which has absolutely nothing to do with getting more players wanting to take lights and/or mediums...

It can. If you push longer wait times on the heavy/assault players, taking a medium mech will get you into matches quicker. It does increase the risk of players giving up entirely if they don't have a medium mech or choose not to run one, though. It's finding the balance in long enough wait times to encourage a different weight class and making players wait so long they give up entirely.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of granting additional benefits to any weight class that has a lower online count, although the release valves they have now can help steer players shorter term before something additional is developed.

[Samophlange]

I want all the LRMS shot down via AMS to count towards my total damage!
You'd see a big jump in those kitfoxes for sure.

[Sephlock]

Alistair Winter, on 03 July 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Yeah, the numbers go up and down a bit. Lowest I've seen today is 6%. Can anyone beat that?

6% light mechs
15% medium mechs
45% heavy mechs
33% assault mechs

More than twice as many heavy mechs as light and medium mechs put together?

It's all working as intended, of course. Assault mechs are endgame, right?

Spoiler

I'll get around to piloting them once I am done grinding all my other mechs- at least the Clan ones. Until them, I'm rotating.

I'd wager that a fair amount of others are in the same boat.

Sorry.

[Alistair Winter]

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Wow! What a bunch of disgruntled old men
"Remember the old days when Ravens ruled the world! That was keen!"
Lots of complaints, no solutions, a few generalizations.

Search the forum, I think you'll find that the disgruntled masses have offered solutions for two years. I'm done offering solutions. PGI doesn't want to listen to my suggestion. That's cool. I'll talk about something else.

But you show a clear lack of reading comprehension (or perhaps you're just using a strawman argument) when you pretend we all miss the days of the Raven. The only reason I mentioned the Raven is to illustrate that light mechs are not inherently unpopular. If you take any light mech, be it the Raven, the Jenner, the Spider or whatever else, and you make it overpowered - like the Timber wolf is currently - then people will play it. People like to win. Forget C-bills, forget XP, forget nostalgia. Most people want to kill more times than they get killed, win more matches than they lose. People like to win. That's the bottom line.

Why do you think people would base rush in assault before turrets came? Because it was fun? No. They liked winning.

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Additionally, this is an optimal time to run lights. NO COMPETITION. Other lights and mediums are what kills lights, not assaults and heavies.
My best scores and earnings are from lights and mediums in just this environment. Nothing like supporting an assault. Nothing! Try that.

This suggests to me that you don't understand how the game works. Assaults and heavies kill light mechs easier than anyone. They don't have to chase them all over the map with jump jets and medium lasers flying. They find the high ground and unload an alpha strike of PPCs and ballistics. You make one mistake in a light mech, and it's over.

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Most Lights blast off and you never see them again. Those that remain and support the main line are golden. It's a skill called teamwork and if anyone in the game can do it it is a light with their control of mobility. Further, as a class they have a lock on ECM. Their value to a mainline is extreme. Yet the light pilots run away and die alone....

Sounds good on paper. Doesn't quite work in practice, due to the fact that they don't react well to PPC+Gauss alpha strikes, and PPC+Gauss alpha strikes aren't really affected by ECM.

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

As a result the early players try the lights and get out of them because fighting with the mainline is slow and requires patience. The rewards if they do so are super. If others see more lights hanging with the mainline maybe there will be more who try them.
Set an example. Be visible.

Again, sounds good, doesn't really work. There are plenty of excellent light mech pilots in this game. Some have even posted tutorials on YouTube and on this forum. It hasn't changed the fact that light mechs are inferior. People like to win, so they play heavy and assault mechs.

Sean von Steinike, on 03 July 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

It would be nice if they gave a flat out bonus in C-bill and XP for the underpopulated weight classes. Positive reinforcement.

Demoncard, on 03 July 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

There's a simple fix. Put an exp/cbill multiplier on the classes that vary depending on how many players there are running that class. If it dips below 25%, people who play it get more or something.

I'm sorry to say, a large portion of the playerbase has reached a stage where C-bills and XP means **** all compared to kills and wins. And the only way to reward people with kills and wins is to adjust balance. In other words.... make light mechs better. Yeah, playing a Locust will earn you plenty of money if you farm kill assists, use TAG and NARC and UAV. But it's not as fun as winning, to me. Nor to most people.

So, in closing, I'd like to leave you all with the famous phrase from the eloquent Charlie Sheen, to summarize my point.

Winning.

Sephlock, on 03 July 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'll get around to piloting them once I am done grinding all my other mechs- at least the Clan ones. Until them, I'm rotating.
I'd wager that a fair amount of others are in the same boat.
Sorry.

Please send me a PM when you see 45% light mechs and 6% assault mechs in the game, old chap.

[Bigbacon]

there probably never be a fix for this because they don't want to force players into things they don't want to do or use. loss of players = loss of money.

the incentive idea is really the only good way to nudge people to use other classes othwer than heavy and assault.

[maniacos]

Hellcat420, on 03 July 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

light mechs have never been as popular as heavier mechs in any MechWarrior game.

That's not true. In MW3 I was mostly running lights and fast mediums. No hardpoint limit made it easy to stock them up with x lasers and nag even Thors and Mad Cats (while Daishi and Annihilator being almost totally useless and being easily killed by any average light or medium pilot), lag gave them a good shield (you had to shot 2-3 mech lenghts ahead to hit - with lasers) so they been nearly impossible to hit from range with Gauss or PPC and LRM could be dodged with jumping. MW4 however made lights pretty weak again.

Edited by Jherek C, 03 July 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[stjobe]

Caviel, on 03 July 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

It can. If you push longer wait times on the heavy/assault players, taking a medium mech will get you into matches quicker. It does increase the risk of players giving up entirely if they don't have a medium mech or choose not to run one, though. It's finding the balance in long enough wait times to encourage a different weight class and making players wait so long they give up entirely.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of granting additional benefits to any weight class that has a lower online count, although the release valves they have now can help steer players shorter term before something additional is developed.

The Rule of 3 could possibly force people towards taking lighter 'mechs, but the release valves mechanic make sure they don't have to - so they don't, and the whole Rule of 3 idea is defeated.

If they had let the original Rule of 3 in without release valves, people would have sooner or later learned that they had to pilot something lighter than their meta-cheeze heavy or they would have to wait forever to play at all - and they'd switch (although not without flooding the forums with qq first).

Now, with the release valves though? They can just safely keep dropping in their meta-heavies day in day out, because the valves make sure they get in a game soon enough.

It's just a very, very PGI-like system. One part actively working against the other part making the whole pointless.