467 replies to this topic

[Prezimonto]

I agree, mech commander and a set of very interesting (though small) skill trees.

I also don't think a free UAV should be common, but on a small number of mechs it would help define their place and point on a battle field much better. I think the non-ballistic locusts, spider 5V, commando 1b/1d/3a, raven 2x and maybe 4x could all use some significant love.

[maniacos]

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Additionally, this is an optimal time to run lights. NO COMPETITION. Other lights and mediums are what kills lights, not assaults and heavies.

That contrarys with people wanting to win. If lights are so great why ain't the people using them? I mean, people that want to win and are messed up in their Atlas by the nasty lights that have "NO COMPETITION", why are people still sitting in that poor Atlas suffering lights? Either they are masochists - or assaults are still quite powerful and give best rewards.

[Caviel]

Jherek C, on 03 July 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

That contrarys with people wanting to win. If lights are so great why ain't the people using them?

Because people fantasize about being the quarterback and not the defensive linemen, or play the damage dealing classes and not the healer or tank. Lights play a huge role in matches for role warfare due to their size, speed, and mobility. A NARCing light is a Godsend for LRM boats, as is any light that can relay enemy force size and location effectively.

Turrets did hurt a lot of their usefulness though, and I'm sad to see that they are so prevalent in all the game modes now.

[MischiefSC]

Mediums - hillclimbing boost, twist/pich/yaw buff, more hardpoints. Gives more flexibility in loadouts without overall firepower change.

Lights - + 2 module slots, literally 3-5x buff to cbill/xp gain for lights on narc/uav/tag spotting assists.

Alter ppfld. Splash out more ppc damage.

Boom. Done.

[Chemie]

PGI basically disabled 3x4 knowing it could break the queue but now everyone just takes heavies and forces the queue to break.

[Sandpit]

Caviel, on 03 July 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

It can. If you push longer wait times on the heavy/assault players,

players will quit

I spoke about this in another similar thread. Longer wait times = players leaving

It's also going to be more of the casual crowd that feels that way. Organized units are actually going to be more flexible with this. We have people to chat with, hang out with, etc. while waiting for a game.

That casual player that just dropped $50 on his shiny new assault? Yea not so much.

Jherek C, on 03 July 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

That's not true. In MW3 I was mostly running lights and fast mediums.

YOU, not the majority of the community

[Prezimonto]

And this is why we need role warfare.

What if command console and scout mechs could combine to provide the bonuses of Clan Targeting computers to all mechs within a radius?

What if they actually implemented a tiny bit of random spread on weapons, which can be overcome by receiving targeting information... and scouts speed up getting that information?

There's TONS of ways to reward play outside of directly deal damage and lots more than could be implemented. They just need decent rewards for doing them.

[Gorgo7]

Well! I have the perfect solution to this light conundrum...everyone will hate it, especially those who have written everything ever discussed in the forums...and you know who you are!
BRING BACK repair and rearm.
Change nothing else.
Income the way it is divided now makes lights easier to run and assaults become an elite type that only the best or richest can afford with any regularity.

Problem solved with one stroke of the keyboard!

Thank you! Please send your donations to the "Keep Gorgo7 in Heavies" fund.

[Doctor Proctor]

Everything that's being said about Lights pretty much applies to most of the Mediums as well. Sure we have a bit more armor, but we're freaking huge and most of us don't have JJ and none of us have ECM. I turn a wrong corner in my Hunchback and I can get cored in seconds too, except that I have a lot less speed to get out of dodge and a magnet RT that gets hit from literally any side (Seriously, try it sometime. Unless he's below you, it can be hit from angle, so torso twisting only really does so much to spread the damage). I used to get 4 kills and 6-700 damage per match in my 4G routinely, but not anymore. With sooooo many Meta compliant mechs, I'm lucky if I can manage 2. Even if I manage to survive the match with my torso intact and pumping out damage, it'll be some Timberwolf that cores the guy from 800 meters after I've been in an intense 200m brawl with him and stripped his armor.

Simply put, these two classes are consistently outarmored and outgunned against most of their opponent, and thus people don't want to play as them. Even the venerable Shadowhawk, with it's Meta compliant builds, isn't enough to bring the Mediums up to 25% in the queue. That, combined with the fact that you're outarmored and outgunned by your TEAM as well and frequently have short range brawling weapons means that you can't even really do anything until after you've already weather the extreme hail of LRMs and PPC/Ballistic weapons to close with you enemy. Other than they're my favorite mechs to pilot, there's almost no incentive to take them anymore, which makes me not even want to play.

[Sandpit]

Gorgo7, on 03 July 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Well! I have the perfect solution to this light conundrum...everyone will hate it, especially those who have written everything ever discussed in the forums...and you know who you are!
BRING BACK repair and rearm.
Change nothing else.
Income the way it is divided now makes lights easier to run and assaults become an elite type that only the best or richest can afford with any regularity.

Problem solved with one stroke of the keyboard!

Thank you! Please send your donations to the "Keep Gorgo7 in Heavies" fund.

agreed

stuff like this ( i don't think R&R singly could fix it) along with other suggestions that have been made over the years would actually add the variety many want.

[stjobe]

Doctor Proctor, on 03 July 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Other than they're my favorite mechs to pilot, there's almost no incentive to take them anymore

That's the real problem PGI should try to solve; how to incentivize light and medium usage.

Forcing 3-3-3-3 was never going to work, and the new release valves is in effect PGI acknowledging that and giving up on the idea.

[Sandpit]

stjobe, on 03 July 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

That's the real problem PGI should try to solve; how to incentivize light and medium usage.

Forcing 3-3-3-3 was never going to work, and the new release valves is in effect PGI acknowledging that and giving up on the idea.

pretty much. I notice a lot of the "3/3/3/3 will solve everything!" crowd has been rather quiet the past couple of days.

It's an "i told you so" moment.

Sure the rule of 3 helps but there's no way that system is going to fix things like this. Until PGI realizes that tough you'll have 3/3/3/3 plus release valves because the light and medium population is still less than 10% of the total combined

[Prezimonto]

I actually don't like RnR they way they had it before, in that, it was essentially a punishment for new players with no real IN-GAME affects.

I've posted elsewhere that what we really need are match or campaign series where your mech config is locked for a series of matchs and is degraded match to match in every way depending on supply and objectives obtained DURING the match. Smaller mechs just need less materiel and should have a significantly increased chance to be fully repaired and rearmed within the series.

http://mwomercs.com/...tyle-game-mode/

[Dakshinamurthy]

I think this might be a factor of the new 3/3/3/3 system. Because lights/mediums are getting put in matches with almost 0 wait the %'s get thrown off. I realized this immediately and the fact that this thread is so long and so few people are pointing this out, confirms a long standing suspicion of mine.

[Sandpit]

Dakshinamurthy, on 03 July 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think this might be a factor of the new 3/3/3/3 system. Because lights/mediums are getting put in matches with almost 0 wait the %'s get thrown off. I realized this immediately and the fact that this thread is so long and so few people are pointing this out, confirms a long standing suspicion of mine.

of course they have less of a wait time. There's tons of open slots available for them to slide right into a match. That still isn't getting people to take more of them though.

[LawDawg]

Adiuvo, on 03 July 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Dude, it's not that light mechs are kinda ****** or anything. You just like, need to, you know, L2P!! And not get shot!! Ever!! Stay in cover!! Never move!! Only n00bs get shot by stuff!! Real light pilots are basically invincible!!

Trust me in my low Elo games where people stand still I do MAJOR damage. Like, I got a whole 400!! Beat that metacheezers!!!

Dude, F THAT, L2P Quote! SO ******* sick of it.................. Why dont you learn to get some ******* manners!!!!!!!

@ the OP, Lights get hit hard. And with the clan package, there arent alot of light to choose from. So from time to time I fall back to spider or jenner when in a 4 to support the team. But ya, Right now, CLAN lights suck.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

of course they have less of a wait time. There's tons of open slots available for them to slide right into a match. That still isn't getting people to take more of them though.

The queue pretty much claims solo Lights and Mediums as soon as its gets any. The problem is that it doesn't really matter what Elo you have for those weight classes. This is likely one of the "release valves" that exist. I don't think there's much "Elo buckets" they are in use, and if they are used... it's rather infrequent.

The Solo Queue looks waaaay different than the Group Queue... one is derpy... the other is quality. You can figure out which is which.

Personally, I don't want to solely focus on Lights and Mediums being incentivized just so they are fielded (they should be in the first place, but are not)... you have to make them more viable somehow, and that requires a lot more "role warfare" that has been bantered about, and not actually dealt with. Once the "need" of the Light mech exists (and rewarded appropriately), then you'd change the "power structure" that is currently "go big or go home".

That won't fix mediums, but then again, it has been suggested to buff movement in accel, decel, and turn speed to improve overall agility and evasion (so that they can better evade Heavies+Assaults).... that has gone unanswered.

Edited by Deathlike, 03 July 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[DaZur]

AW, no offense but when the limited scope of "death match" and death match with distractions" as the only mission parameters... why would anyone take anything but heavies and Assaults?

I know your working real hard to take a back-handed swat at PGI and all, and actually I agree with your intent but until there's something of value for Mediums and Lights aside from being soft targets... You're kind'a stating the obvious.

Edited by DaZur, 03 July 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[InspectorG]

IMO

Lights have no role.
If conquest/assault rewarded cap to a larger degree(3x-4x reward?) over 'kill'em all!' the speed of lights would help cover distance and put pressure on capping and keeping said caps.

Give bigger bonuses for: spotting, component destruction, capping, counter ecm, KILLING ENEMY ASSAULTS, Narc/Tag.

In the current meta, pinpoint FLD rules and lights just dont have enough alpha. Sad but true.

So until the meta changes from 'max damage in shortest time to enemy mechs' lights will essentially be a handicap or a tonnage requirement.
A BV system could be developed...over time. After many mess-ups.

I see anywhere from 5%-22% lights in my underhive elo.

More objectives could give Lights a role as well...

CW may fix the plight of lights but...that is speculation.

[MischiefSC]

3333 is running most games in solo jjust fine. Its group queue thats way off.