39 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Happy 4th of July all! This time of the year always makes me turn inward and reflect a bit on my nation's history. I'm a proud, patriotic American and think that it's great to live in the US of A!

That being said, I would love to have a patriotic camo scheme for my Mechs. The closest thing we have to that is the Sherman paint scheme. However, I would like a scheme that really stands out as being USA, perhaps even with WWII fighter plane style markers. We already have flags for our cockpits.

I recognize that there are a lot of different nationalities that play MWO, so I would not limit the patriotic paint schemes to American ones alone. Frankly, I think it would be terrific if PGI provided a paint scheme to match each one of the cockpit flags.

What do you think?

Note: I haven't purchased the Sherman scheme yet (am hoping PGI will put out a patriotic one!), but I did mock this up on one of my TDRs:

[Ryoken]

I would prefer faction specific camo patterns instead:
- IS Houses
- Clans
- Pirate Kingdoms
- Famous Mercs
etc.

I think having the national flags available as cockpit items is enough. Even the sherman camo could be arguable as I would have prefered a 2 color camo pattern without national insignias branded on it.

I would advice to keep national or religious stuff out of this game, as it is a two sided sword. Nothing wrong with loving your country or your deity. But in the wrong dosage it will cause a lot of rage!

"Religion is as contributional to peace as alcohol is to road safety."-unknown but quoted for truth

So art department should be very aware what they are doing.

Also it would be better if we would separate the camo patterns from the faction/unit decals. I mean a Davion pattern with Kurita logos kind of looks weired.

Edited by Ryoken, 04 July 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Ryoken, on 04 July 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

I would prefer faction specific camo patterns instead:
- IS Houses
- Clans
- Pirate Kingdoms
- Famous Mercs
etc.

I think having the national flags available as cockpit items is enough. Even the sherman camo could be arguable as I would have prefered a 2 color camo pattern without national insignias branded on it.

I would advice to keep national or religious stuff out of this game, as it is a two sided sword. Nothing wrong with loving your country or your deity. But in the wrong dosage it will cause a lot of rage!

"Religion is as contributional to peace as alcohol is to road safety."-unknown but quoted for truth

So art department should be very aware what they are doing.

Also it would be better if we would separate the camo patterns from the faction/unit decals. I mean a Davion pattern with Kurita logos kind of looks weired.

Well, this would not preclude factional camos. It would simply be another option. I also was not advocating any sort of religious camo scheme, but simply your nation's colors.

Frankly, I don't think it would be an issue to have patriotic colors. Look at the CN9-YLW. It has the Rising Sun on it for Japan. I haven't heard anyone kicking about that yet. I actually own one and run the stock colors on it - I even subbed out it's red for a brighter one (and I'm non-Japanese)!

For PGI, it would be a chance to increase their revenues by providing another marketable aspect to this game. For us gamers, it gives us new, innovative game content. Anyone who might get their feelings hurt by killing or being killed by a Mech with national colors on it (mine, yours, theirs, whoevers!) shouldn't be playing this game to start with.

[Ryoken]

It's not on you our me to decide whose feelings get hurt on what. But PGI would make a bad choice to give people who overdo the national thing a platform in their game.

So even your example with the Yen Lo Wang is wrong. You might not have a problem with it, as have I. It even is a canon paint sceme. Still it did actually cause rage:
http://mwomercs.com/...nted-like-that/

So really you do not know how other people will feel about something, nor do I. Still it is an unnecessary risk to put more oil onto something that likely might ignite.

[Nightmare1]

Ryoken, on 04 July 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

It's not on you our me to decide whose feelings get hurt on what. But PGI would make a bad choice to give people who overdo the national thing a platform in their game.

So even your example with the Yen Lo Wang is wrong. You might not have a problem with it, as have I. It even is a canon paint sceme. Still it did actually cause rage:
http://mwomercs.com/...nted-like-that/

So really you do not know how other people will feel about something, nor do I. Still it is an unnecessary risk to put more oil onto something that likely might ignite.

I really think you're looking for trouble where there is none. The YLW seems to have been an issue because of the mixed cultural references. I'm not advocating that we mix cultures with our paint schemes. I'm just saying that it would be nice if there were individual camos for USA, Britain, France, Canada, etc.

You're right, it's not our decision regarding whose feelings get hurt, so stop making the decision that feelings will be hurt. To be frank, I just can't see any rational person deciding to take offense at so minor an issue; especially if they are playing this game, where it's a lot easier to take offense at other things (like perceived unfairness, perceived gameplay bugs or imbalances, TK'ers, etc.).

You say that you don't want people who overdo the "national thing" to have platforms. I say that in all the time I've been in this game (since very early in the Closed Beta), I've yet to see anyone attempt to create a national "platform." We're talking about cosmetics here, not WWIII.

What you are contending, is that anything remotely offensive should be barred from the game on the ground that people shouldn't have their feelings hurt. I see this as foolishness. If you are right, then the game itself shouldn't exist because people would take offense at being killed and/or losing matches. The Boar's Head shouldn't exist because it would offend Jews and Muslims. The Phranken pattern shouldn't exist because it would offend people who don't like bloody skeletons. The Thor, canonical though it may be, shouldn't exist because it might offend people who don't like Norse gods. The Blackhawk (also canonical) shouldn't exist because it might offend Native Americans. The Clans shouldn't exist because people might become enraged by their presence (see any number of anti-Clan threads).

Your argument that it may cause rage is probably accurate in the sense that someone, somewhere would choose at least one of the national camos at which to display rage. Your argument that this is enough grounds to bar national camos, however, is flawed.

I reiterate: Someone that sensitive shouldn't be playing video games or any other type of competition anyways, because they will just get their feelings hurt.

So PGI please, let's have some fresh customization features! I would dearly love an emblem of Old Glory emblazoned on the chest of my Mechs, and would not be offended in the least if I happened to cross blades with Mechs displaying other nationalities. I also have enough faith in our MWO community that I think most of the pilots in this game would feel the same.

Edited by Nightmare1, 04 July 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[Rojar Paren]

Honestly the mounted flags are too far out of canon IMHO. In the Battletech universe they all got replaced by Comstar anyways. If you want a factional or canon paint job from the books...please go for it. But dragging real world politics into it is bad mojo.

And as to having faith that it is a mature community: its the internet someone will always get their panties into a twist.

[Nightmare1]

Wow, I really figured that people would jump at the chance to display their national pride. Never thought I'd see such fear that someone might get offended.

Again, it's not about politics - It's simply a vanity item! Quit being such thin-skinned kill-joys.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I'd be fine with patriotic patterns and colors (United States, maybe one or two other systems of government).

I'd also be fine with nationalistic patterns and colors (most anywhere else in the world, where the nation matters and the particular system of government is ancillary).

I'd even be fine with religious patterns and colors (I'd love to see some old-school romano-byzantine-style patterns).

[Nightmare1]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd be fine with patriotic patterns and colors (United States, maybe one or two other systems of government). I'd also be fine with nationalistic patterns and colors (most anywhere else in the world, where the nation matters and the particular system of government is ancillary).

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

[Exilyth]

• "Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about." - Mark Twain
  
• "You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race." - George Bernard Shaw
  
• "The greater the state, the more wrong and cruel its patriotism, and the greater is the sum of suffering upon which its power is founded." - Leo Tolstoy
  
• "A nation is a society united by a delusion about its ancestry and by common hatred of its neighbours." - William Ralph Inge
  
• "I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." - Eugene V. Debs
  
• "Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched." - Guy de Maupassant
  
• "It was patriotism, not communism, that inspired me." - Ho Chi Minh
  
• "The most tragic paradox of our time is to be found in the failure of nation-states to recognize the imperatives of internationalism." - Earl Warren

I could go on and on and on but let's just leave it at that.


You can cheer for fictional powers as much as you want, but please leave real world politics out of our recreational pastime.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Exilyth, on 04 July 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

• "Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about." - Mark Twain
  
• "You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race." - George Bernard Shaw
  
• "The greater the state, the more wrong and cruel its patriotism, and the greater is the sum of suffering upon which its power is founded." - Leo Tolstoy
  
• "A nation is a society united by a delusion about its ancestry and by common hatred of its neighbours." - William Ralph Inge
  
• "I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world." - Eugene V. Debs
  
• "Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched." - Guy de Maupassant
  
• "It was patriotism, not communism, that inspired me." - Ho Chi Minh
  
• "The most tragic paradox of our time is to be found in the failure of nation-states to recognize the imperatives of internationalism." - Earl Warren

I could go on and on and on but let's just leave it at that.



You can cheer for fictional powers as much as you want, but please leave real world politics out of our recreational pastime.

Gotta love many of those quoted individuals.

Besides that, if someone wants to show a Waning Crescent in white on a green base, I say more power to them. If someone wants to have a stars-and-stripes pattern, why not? If someone desires to display the hammer and sickle, sure! Maybe avoid certain historically weighty symbols (a particular national-socialist party comes to mind), but for pretty much anything else, what is the real harm?

[Nightmare1]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 July 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Gotta love many of those quoted individuals. Besides that, if someone wants to show a Waning Crescent in white on a green base, I say more power to them. If someone wants to have a stars-and-stripes pattern, why not? If someone desires to display the hammer and sickle, sure! Maybe avoid certain historically weighty symbols (a particular national-socialist party comes to mind), but for pretty much anything else, what is the real harm?

Exactly! The people who would cause problems are the ones like these easily offended naysayers.

Frankly, I think most folks would like this. Otherwise, I would never have posted it. I guess that I expected a few thin-skinned types to object, although I had not expected them to do so as quickly as they did.

[gtyida]

are we going to have clan specific patterns and paints? inner sphere too??? that would be great? i think ppl may like clan wolf patterns and stuff or whatever factions they choose?

[BerserX]

Wow! Who would have thought people would get so offended about something because they're afraid it might in some way offend some random person they'll never meet??? The irony is that the person who will most likely be genuinely offended by a patriotic paint scheme (note: patriotic does not strictly refer to the United States of America, just in case there are liberal agenda nit wits who would jump to this conclusion) is the person who would gladly boast the colors and scheme of their own country. And as international as MWO is, how many people are going to get their feelings hurt if you don't run their country's colors??? I know I'm NOT offended if someone runs colors other than those of the USA. If you're proud of your country, let it show!

BTW, here's my Red White and Blue Dragon Slayer:

[Impyrium]

Not surprised an American posted this- no offence. I don't think as many other countries are quite as patriotic as you guys, even though I do love my Australian flag and even have one waving about my house just outside my window. But I like my immersion, and this is only going to kill it a little more.

House colours, yes please. Real world flags...? I don't think that really suits here.

I was running around with a Union jack planted across my 'Mech the other day, using the cross pattern. It looked silly, even though I also feel a little patriotic, both of Australia and the United Kingdom.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Here's my Atlas:

[Ryoken]

Nightmare1, on 04 July 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

I really think you're looking for trouble where there is none. The YLW seems to have been an issue because of the mixed cultural references. I'm not advocating that we mix cultures with our paint schemes.

You are wrong again. The trouble was partially about mixing up a Japanese marine war flag on a mech named after a Chinese demon god or st. Still it is canon as early BT lore was not very fond of Asian culture as it seems.

The big problem is that this Japanese marine war flag is causing a lot of hard feelings in a lot of Asian countries and even is illegal in some countrys.

But what you request is some immersion breaking unnecessary source of offence. Seeing all those other posters here with their concerns denying the conflict potential is futile.

There is a reason real world politics and religions are forbidden in the forum and should stay out of the game. Because if you give some nationalistic mouthbreathers a platform, they will use it. The chance of abuse is to high. And implementation unnecessary breaks immersion.

[Nightmare1]

*Sigh* Here we go again. He's back, and beating his same old, tired drum of "this will make people unhappy!"

Get over it dude.

Some Mechs and some paint schemes already lend themselves to patriotic patterns if one is creative. I've seen several homemade attempts like Levi's Atlas, BerserX's Victor, and my Thunderbolt. What I haven't seen, are any of your hyper-easily-offended people who can't stomach the sight of such. To the opposite, I've often received compliments for the paint scheme on my Mech, and have even had two different people tell me they were going to try the same on some of their Mechs (mocking up their national colors - not necessarily USA).

I'm not advocating that we use patterns or symbols that are illegal. I'm just saying that if we can have flags in our cockpits, why not camos on our Mechs that let us display our national pride?

You keep harping on religion too. This has nothing to do with religion. This also doesn't have to do with politics - it's colors. I say, if someone is going to be a rabid "mouthbreather" like you seem to fear, then they will do it with or without patriotic patterns.

So please, unless you have something of any substance to say, stop this nonsense. The only marginally credible evidence you raised is the YLW, which, as you pointed out, uses mixes cultures and uses an illegal emblem. Hardly comparable to what I am suggesting.

Try to be like AUSwarrior24, who brought a legitimate complaint to the table - canonical authenticity. To his concern, I would say that I agree - it doesn't fit. However, neither do the warhorns really, or several other items currently in-game. This would simply be a vanity item for people to enjoy.

To enjoy I say, if certain groups can stop choosing to take offense at the notion.

[Ryoken]

No need to get personal here.

If you would have read my posts you would have seen that in contrast to your assumption that everyone would be fine with patriotic paint schemes, I stated not everyone is as can be seen in this thread. *substance*

I also pointed out that allready implemented flag like patterns allready caused trouble as for the Yen-lo-wang. *substance*

Also it was pointed out that real life national patterns would be immersion breaking to the BT-universe. *substance*

Further there are allready nationalistic/racist outbursts in game chat and supporting these players with patriotic patterns to broaden their platform is to be avoided. *substance*

So please accept that your point of view is not as universal as you might think. And that I pointed out valid points why patriotic paint schemes will put sources of trouble into the game.

[Nightmare1]

If you prefer me not to get personal then please, by all means, leave me out of it. I do not appreciate being accused of being a platforming mouthbreather. Perhaps you should be more careful not to generalize.

If you actually had read my posts, you would realize that I acknowledged the fact that there are players who may abuse it or may disagree with it. I never claimed that it would be universally accepted, just that I felt more people would be in favor of it than against it. The poll, as it stands now, is a perfect example of that. There are 5 who would purchase it, 7 who support it but might not purchase it, and only 4 against it. Hardly a quorum in either direction as of yet, but looking more favorable towards my point of view than yours.

I still say that you are operating on assumptions rather than substance. Your only noteworthy objection is the fact that it would be "immersion breaking." Still, we are hardly "immersed" in the BT-Universe as it is, so adding in Patriotic schemes isn't much of a stretch.

I reiterate: The YLW was unique because it was a botched scheme featuring an illegal emblem. I am not suggesting such a scheme.

Finally, patriotic schemes hardly constitute a platform. The complaints you have concerning this already exist. Adding in paint schemes will hardly fuel it. Besides, why punish the good pilots, who are willing to pay money for this sort of thing, for the actions of an irate, irrational few?

There is no logic in this *platform* you maintain.