107 replies to this topic

[Sean von Steinike]

Duppie1974, on 07 July 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

I just love uninformed posts like this, why don't you try to wobble a slow ass narced assault to cover on maps like Caustic or Alpine before it is dead, all the while missiles pounding, screen shake so bad that you cannot properly see where you are going. I can see how this can be a problem for some players.
I have used missile boats, and I ran narc on my Raven 3L with at the least two dedicated LRM boats. Let me assure you, you will have no chance getting to cover on any of those two maps in an assault once you are narced.
LRM and Narc is broken, not the missiles or the system itself, they are broken in the way that ECM in this game is all backwards, ECM is supposed to be the counter, not being countered by Narc. Also the amount of missile tubes that can be fitted on a mech is ridicules, ghost heat did nothing to stop boating, so maybe Paul should try hard point restrictions.

Well, considering the better players don't even see much in the way of LRMs in their matches because...LRMs suck........

[Black Ivan]

Hard point siyes would be a good idea. So manz different topics at once could be solved.

[Mizore]

yes, that's right ...and of course "real" drop weight limits and role warfare!!!

If there are only few heavies and assaults in a game, then there also only few LRM boats and few easy-to-hit targets, because LRMs aren't really good against mediums and lights.

[PlzDie]

El Bandito, on 07 July 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

You need to lower your armor if you are LRM boating in an assault. My 733 have ARLM15x4 (60 total) with TAG and 2000 ammo + JJs. Granted, it has near 2/3 of the max armor and moves only around 60 kph but I play very carefully. Still kills less than my meta DS though. PPC+AC = King of killing.



So you are saying LRMs are only situationally powerful, and only shines if the team bringst NARC and the match is on Alpine or Caustic. Blame PGI for making ECM a hard counter to LRMs in the first place.

What I am trying to say is that LRM's combined with Narc is powerful, TAG I don't care much about due to the guy spotting needs to expose himself for the whole flight time of the missiles, the same with LOS.
Narc is the only equipment that can be used over and over again in a match, that allows constant indirect fire even with ECM present, although I think 2 ECM will counter one Narc.
I used Alpine and Caustic as a worst case scenario, as an example, LRM's and Narc will work on any map if it is used correctly.
I also did state that ECM is backwards, ECM according to http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite is not suppose to be a hard counter to LRM's.

This is why LRM's are not used in 12 mans or league matches, not because they suck, they don't, a coordinated team will be bringing enough ECM to counter the use of LRM's, anyway can't lose a pop tart in exchange for a LRM boat.

Blaming PGI or even discussing the implementation of ECM is useless, Paul feels it is just in the right place, the implementation of ECM in MWO has been discussed to death with no results whatsoever, some of us knows it is broken.

MWO is a mechwarrior flavored game only, not everything works as it is explained in canon, that is why the current ECM is more like a cloaking field, without the see through mechs.

Edited by Duppie1974, 08 July 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[PlzDie]

Sean von Steinike, on 08 July 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Well, considering the better players don't even see much in the way of LRMs in their matches because...LRMs suck........

Like I said in my previous post, LRM's is not being used in team matches when all go pop tarts and as much ECM as possible, which renders LRM's useless, not because of all the elite skills.
Fix ECM to do what it is suppose to do and you will see more people use LRM's, much like an indirect arty strike only more effective.

Black Ivan, on 08 July 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

Hard point siyes would be a good idea. So manz different topics at once could be solved.

We have been hammering about hard point sizes since closed beta with no results, so I don't think we will ever see that. The one thing MW4 got right was the hard point system IMHO.

[El Bandito]

Duppie1974, on 08 July 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

Like I said in my previous post, LRM's is not being used in team matches when all go pop tarts and as much ECM as possible, which renders LRM's useless, not because of all the elite skills. Fix ECM to do what it is suppose to do and you will see more people use LRM's, much like an indirect arty strike only more effective. We have been hammering about hard point sizes since closed beta with no results, so I don't think we will ever see that. The one thing MW4 got right was the hard point system IMHO.

As much as I liked the MW4 HP style, shoving in multiple smaller weapons into a single big slot can still be exploited. It is completely fine if one slot is for one weapon only, but is restricted with size. Awesome will finally the be PPC boat that it was meant to be, and Stalker/Timberwolf/3D will have to make do with LLasers. Cuts down on poptarting as well.

And no, there is no need for PGI to ever implement the more cheesy mechs such as the T-Hawk or the Devastator. Simply no need.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[PlzDie]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

As much as I liked the MW4 HP style, shoving in multiple smaller weapons into a single big slot can still be exploited. It is completely fine if one slot is for one weapon only, but is restricted with size. Awesome will finally the be PPC boat that it was meant to be, and Stalker/Timberwolf/3D will have to make do with LLasers. Cuts down on poptarting as well.

And no, there is no need for PGI to ever implement the more cheesy mechs such as the T-Hawk or the Devastator. Simply no need.

Yes you are right, I stand corrected. Haven't played MW4 for a very long time.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Duppie1974, on 08 July 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

What I am trying to say is that LRM's combined with Narc is powerful, TAG I don't care much about due to the guy spotting needs to expose himself for the whole flight time of the missiles, the same with LOS.
Narc is the only equipment that can be used over and over again in a match, that allows constant indirect fire even with ECM present, although I think 2 ECM will counter one Narc.
I used Alpine and Caustic as a worst case scenario, as an example, LRM's and Narc will work on any map if it is used correctly.
I also did state that ECM is backwards, ECM according to http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite is not suppose to be a hard counter to LRM's.

This is why LRM's are not used in 12 mans or league matches, not because they suck, they don't, a coordinated team will be bringing enough ECM to counter the use of LRM's, anyway can't lose a pop tart in exchange for a LRM boat.

Blaming PGI or even discussing the implementation of ECM is useless, Paul feels it is just in the right place, the implementation of ECM in MWO has been discussed to death with no results whatsoever, some of us knows it is broken.

MWO is a mechwarrior flavored game only, not everything works as it is explained in canon, that is why the current ECM is more like a cloaking field, without the see through mechs.

^ This guy gets it. El Bandito however has his head too far up his own ass to see anything outside of his own biased opnions. Yes lrms are weak when faced against organized play because their counters can always be present and players are more able to organize an effective push against the enemy, not to mention call out, shoot at, and HIT the ECM light spotters that push boated lrms over the top. In PUG play you can't rely on your team being able to call out spotters, especially ones with ecm, shoot at said spotter even if it was called out, and further still that they can actually hit the spotter for anywhere near the damage the spotter with tiny hitboxes, ECM, and super speed is putting on a slower teammate that is often going to be blinded by the unholy reign of fire being bombarded upon then from perfectly safe locations, just by looking at that person (and giving the lrmers a lock.)

Radar deprivation SHOULD NOT EVER be used as the pivotal balancing factor that it is currently. It's not availible to newer players, which are the players that need it most, and is a pain to deal with if you enjoy piloting multiple mechs. I for instance rarely pilot one mech multiple times in a row and usually settle for a handful rotating between them every match or so. I would need to invest 24-30 million cbills into multiple copies of the module or have to spend 2+ mins every game switching out the modules (thanks to the laggy mech labs and long saving times). This isn't a huge deal because the first point is more important, the module to make lrms feel much more balanced is locked behind a 15k GXP exp wall and 6 million per mech pay wall, which is alienating to new players that are already having trouble saving up for the mechs/builds they want to play/try out.