53 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

Encountering 3 decently played DDC is a lot more worrisome to me then dire wolf. Honestly, the triple assault premade, it all comes down to their actual skill level anyway. If they are mediocre, you will flank and destroy them anyway. If they are highly aware, you will have a hella time, but thats not specific to direwlf either.

Quick hits from a decent vantage point will do them in over time. if yuo are trying to use a team of brawling IS to counter them, you will need to be very careful on positioning to do it, and focus fire them down.

Direwolf eats it as bad as any other, but if you let yourself be exposed for them to counter fire, they can also deal it out really fast to.

[Urdasein]

When i spot a dire wolf fat assault (like over 85 tons) :

- first i lock him then i shoot him, then back to cover.
- wait a second or so until that DW decide to annoy somebody else (you locked him, maybe a teamate want to score some dmg too =)
- take a look, if the pinata is idiot enough to stay in your LS, shoot it again...

I have 3 pin point alpha 62dmg at 600 ish meters... Enough to break some shoulders

If that turkey is too close, GTFO !

As always, ECM are priority targets and typing intel about ECM in teamchat (even with ennemies close) is always a good idea.

[xMintaka]

Duppie1974, on 07 July 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Moving also does not really help when one of them can have a 50 pin point alpha with a extra 10 points splash bonus, two c-gauss and two c-erppc.
Seeing more of those around lately, and the charge mechanic is not a balancing factor, anybody that knows how to macro already worked around that silly mechanic.

They have abysmal torso twist and turn speed. If you can get close it's easy to run figure eights around them and core them out from behind.

Attacking Dire Wolves from the side or above also works very well.

Imho they're not that scary if you move rapidly from cover to cover and/or poptart. Obviously there's the occasional game where you'll get insta-stripped but they are quite rare.

Dire Wolves are just too slow to compete well in the game as it stands now. Use that to your advantage and you'll do just fine against them.

[Modo44]

If you see a Gauss arms build, it is often easier to neuter than outright kill it. Assplosive arms and all.

[Kmieciu]

Direwolves armed with Lasers+UACs are a joke against jump snipers. I soloed 2 in a row using my Shadowhawk. Even if you don't Narc them, advanced target decay will make sure your friends will pump them full of LRMs.

2xGauss+2xERPPC is the only build you have to worry about, but it works just like a bigger, slower Gausspult. It can't jump, it can't ridge-hump, and it relies on other team members to tank damage while it slowly moves into position. When it get's focused on, it dies almost as fast as a Jagermech.

Edited by Kmieciu, 07 July 2014 - 11:54 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kmieciu, on 07 July 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

Direwolves armed with Lasers+UACs are a joke against jump snipers. I soloed 2 in a row using my Shadowhawk. Even if you don't Narc them, advanced target decay will make sure your friends will pump them full of LRMs.

2xGauss+2xERPPC is the only build you have to worry about, but it works just like a bigger, slower Gausspult. It can't jump, it can't ridge-hump, and it relies on other team members to tank damage while it slowly moves into position. When it get's focused on, it dies almost as fast as a Jagermech.

That build also has problems with leg armor sometimes. Depending on how the weapons were set up.

[Crab Juice]

I took one down with my jagermech A. I was bassically one on one with each of us at pretty much full armor. Srm's and taking advantage of their slugishness seemed to work.

Edited by Puberty Blues, 08 July 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Autobot9000]

RustyBolts, on 07 July 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

So far the nastiest combo I have seen is the 2 Direwolf with AC with a DDC in the middle then 2 Timber wolfs and a cataphfrat outside them. It was a wall of hell that was destroying anything that got in front of them.

That's what always happens when a "deathball" marches over singled out mechs (or generally smaller groups of enemies)

[Redshift2k5]

I wonder what you've been doing for the last two years vs premades of Atlases (who until recently could drop with 4 Atlases together)

Never face them down directly, they have absurd amounts of forward firepower but low turn ate and low turn angles.

If they're Gauss & PPC, you'll need fast brawlers to get behind them and open them up with SRMs, Their backs will be vulnerable.

If they're lasers and ballistics, they have high DPS but low pinpoint, so PPCs and Inner Sphere pin-point ballistics to the CT.

NARC and LRMs for any Dire Wolf. Ditto Arty/Air.

---

It sounds like the real issue is coordination- If they are a 4-man with 3 Dire Wolves and an ECM, you're going to need equal or greater coordination to take them down, such as coordinating your LRMs & spotters, a correctly executed flank, or a distraction and a base cap. It's not that different from a team with stacked DDCs.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 08 July 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Autobot9000]

Redshift2k5, on 08 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

It sounds like the real issue is coordination- If they are a 4-man with 3 Dire Wolves and an ECM, you're going to need equal or greater coordination to take them down, such as coordinating your LRMs & spotters, a correctly executed flank, or a distraction and a base cap. It's not that different from a team with stacked DDCs.

Yeah, but the match maker should account for that. Every 3 man premade should spawn a similar sized premade on the enemy team too. The question is just, if it also has similar weight. I think community size (player pool) is the limiting factor for balance here.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Redshift2k5, on 08 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

I wonder what you've been doing for the last two years vs premades of Atlases (who until recently could drop with 4 Atlases together)

Never face them down directly, they have absurd amounts of forward firepower but low turn ate and low turn angles.

If they're Gauss & PPC, you'll need fast brawlers to get behind them and open them up with SRMs, Their backs will be vulnerable.

If they're lasers and ballistics, they have high DPS but low pinpoint, so PPCs and Inner Sphere pin-point ballistics to the CT.

NARC and LRMs for any Dire Wolf. Ditto Arty/Air.

---

It sounds like the real issue is coordination- If they are a 4-man with 3 Dire Wolves and an ECM, you're going to need equal or greater coordination to take them down, such as coordinating your LRMs & spotters, a correctly executed flank, or a distraction and a base cap. It's not that different from a team with stacked DDCs.

vs

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 08 July 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Autobot9000, on 08 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yeah, but the match maker should account for that. Every 3 man premade should spawn a similar sized premade on the enemy team too. The question is just, if it also has similar weight. I think community size (player pool) is the limiting factor for balance here.

Karl Berg has made some comments about evaluating the data for how exactly grouping affects win rate, so once he has that information he can begin tuning things to give more 'weight' to groups.

I'm sure we can all agree that raw Elo of a group vs raw Elo of a bunch of pugs, even if equal Elo, isn't an equal match, but actually determining how much of a difference is easier said than done and needs to be adjusted carefully.

[Voivode]

With Dire Wolves, just as with Atlas', taking out the side torsos is more effective than trying to bore through the CT armor. The armor is thinner there, and loss of a side torso eliminates half their firepower.

[Ph30nix]

just had a few matches where i ran into the same group of 3 dires first one my team actually focus fired them (crimson tunnel area)

another one was tourmaline and teammate tagged them for LRM's took out 1 and crippled other two for us to finish off

third one i was in my direwolf (lbx60) and maneuvered behind them was able to take 2 of them out before they could react with alphas to the back CT.


vs a direwolf its all about positioning or teamwork.

[Autobot9000]

Redshift2k5, on 08 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Karl Berg has made some comments about evaluating the data for how exactly grouping affects win rate, so once he has that information he can begin tuning things to give more 'weight' to groups.

I'm sure we can all agree that raw Elo of a group vs raw Elo of a bunch of pugs, even if equal Elo, isn't an equal match, but actually determining how much of a difference is easier said than done and needs to be adjusted carefully.

That should be interesting data.

However there is still a bigger problem: ELO. There are no actually objectively good estimators from multiplayer matches. You would need to estimate ELO from 1v1 then use these scores to feed into multiplayer match. That would mean you would need everyone to play 1v1 matches to keep their score updated. Every game and every matchmaker has this issue. Starcraft 2 multiplayer MM is a joke too....

[Kin3ticX]

• If you have ever seen the circular NASCAR formations in skirmish mode, its a good way to shoot Direwolves in the back. They will usually be at the rear and are sometimes able to be picked off.

• Dire Wolves also knuckle drag a bit on top of being slow, just like with the Atlas but perhaps worse. This makes them susceptible to the jump sniping meta. Yeah they can shoot back but their exposure time will always be higher than yours.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 09 July 2014 - 03:53 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Depends on who is piloting the three Dire Wolves.

I've had some matches (10-12 man team vs. 10-12 man team) where things went very well, others... not so much.

[Jakob the Traitor]

Dropping in 3 of the same mech may very well just be part of the game like anything withen 3>3>3>3 my advice for direwolves shoot them in the back and never stand infront of them like any mech they have strengths and weaknesses.

[Haroldwolf]

The Dire Wolf is awesome and deadly; I love mine. They do however have weaknesses. No AMS or ECM, slow movement speed even when elited and slow turning/tracking compared to other assault mechs.

For these reasons I never take out my Dire Wolf unless I am dropping with my regiment.

Best way to defeat a DW?
1. TAG or Narc them and rain LRM's on them
2. Arty/Airstrike to soften them up
3. Focus fire from your own heavies/assaults. I've had pretty good success with my triple AC/5 Cataphract
4. Separate a DW from the herd; get undisciplined mechwarriors to go chase a few light mechs.
5. Move fast, speed keeps you alive
6. Kill it's support mechs

If the opposing force has 3 DW's your work is cut out for you.

[Autobot9000]

The problem really is teamwork. 3 voice comm'd, hence coordinated, Direwolves are going to shred lances of enemies, if they do not meet coordinated opposition. Otherwise there isn't a particular problem with the mech itself, it has rather obvious weaknesses even.

Edited by Autobot9000, 10 July 2014 - 10:54 AM.