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Destructible Environments


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#41 9erRed

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

Greetings all,

Reference different states for destructible environments.

Karl has made earlier statements about how this game differs from all the previous MW titles. And any destruction effects that now are all required to check with the server first. You'll notice that purely visual effects that don't impact the game play appear to be a rather easy insert to the maps. (code altered to allow this and the new art assets.)

Q1: Without going into too much depth could you expand on some of the issues concerning objects in the MWO environment being destructible, and where PGI is in relation to having some level of this brought into the various maps.
From Karl: (in May)

There are several complications here.

- From the engineering side, it depends heavily on the amount of interactivity that dynamic terrain is expected to bring to the game. If you could shoot out bridges that other players were standing on for instance, that results in very difficult to resolve latency issues with the game simulation.

- It also results in very high rewind costs, as the set of rewindable entities has now grown to include these destructible objects.

- If the destruction is purely visual, then the engineering concerns are much smaller.

On the level design side, interactive destructible environments mean that sight lines and movement paths can change.

- The map designers would have to be very conscious of those dynamic differences, and ensure that no combination of destroyed assets results in negative gameplay mechanics.

- Purely visual destruction also mitigates these risks.

For the artists, they would need to build all of the destructible assets to be put in-game.

- I've been told that this is a monumental amount of work.



Q2: It is understandable that destroying big stuff can incur a major cost due to the strict server authorization keeping us largely cheat-free. But when a simple tree or car survives mech firepower or being stepped on, that breaks immersion in a huge way. All the sense of scale and mass is suddenly not there.

From Karl: (in May)

Ahh, I thought you were talking about crumbling buildings and such.

- For visual collision work, such as trees and other small rigid bodies; there is a bunch of work I need to do first before the artists can add these sorts of assets to the maps.

- It's not as simple as the artists simply dropping rigid body assets into the map, due to all the networking changes we've had to make to the engine. I've been proceeding with this work on the side, as time permits, but it's not at the point where I can hand this off to the artists quite yet.



Now with all that there is still this next map to be released, 'Jungle' and it wouldn't be right to have that type of environment and not have some of the items within it destructible. Additionally the upcoming new mode of play 'Attack/Defend' should also have elements that are breakable or can be destroyed and actually show this within the game.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 07 July 2014 - 01:28 PM.


#42 Drasari

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:33 PM

Trees and those stupid little statues that Mechs can get hung up on near the Citadel on River City.

#43 Jonny Taco

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:34 PM

Less cash grabs, more "content" please.

#44 Green Mamba

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

View PostMAX909, on 07 July 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:


wasn't that mech warrior 4 that never got released because they went for MWO instead correct me if im wrong but if there's a mechwarrior game i dont have i need to change this


There was a MechWarrior 4 Vengeance along with a Black knight expansion pack, then a MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries Standalone Game with an IS and a Clan Mekpak ie...Maps/Mechs along with Community made content including a lot from Mektek. So actually quite a Few Games..MW5 was supposed to be released but was cancelled.then in 2009 we had this Video just Labeled MechWarrior.That is until Politics Behind the scene happened and we ended up with what we have today and Regardless what anyone tells you, we(Customers) really don't know What Happened and probably never will

#45 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:26 PM

View PostGreen Mamba, on 07 July 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Well its not like other MW games from 14 + years ago had destructible environments...Oh Wait they did.

Well at its at least not shown in their video:


Oh Wait again....



This game woulda been ssssoooooooooooo much better if they went with some kinda on going MMO Mechwarrior game, PVE type of thing instead of TDM, World of Tanks grindy bullshit with mechs....

Maybe a game more based on the RPG of MW, Citytech I think it was? It had infantry combat and mechs.

#46 cSand

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:06 PM

View PostArchon, on 07 July 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

There really should be some destructibility. Not having it is immersion breaking and every prior Mechwarrior game allowed you to destroy buildings. Hell, why isn't my mech armored with whatever they put on those buildings? Even the tiny little cars that should be crushed into smithereens when I step on them are indestructible.



Blowing up cars would be sweet and streetlamps and stuff... but consider the people trying to get by in this game on a dual-core, older or lower-end PC and big destructible terrains would be murder on their systems I think

View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 07 July 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:



This game woulda been ssssoooooooooooo much better if they went with some kinda on going MMO Mechwarrior game, PVE type of thing instead of TDM, World of Tanks grindy bullshit with mechs....

Maybe a game more based on the RPG of MW, Citytech I think it was? It had infantry combat and mechs.


Totally bro, we could fetch 100 WEAPON PARTS to deliver to the mechanic in our mechbay so he can complete the new part for our Large Laser, which we have to take to the other mech technician who will need 50 IRON BOLTS to secure it onto our mech, but these can only be found in the CITY SEWER and you can only gain access after giving the keycard to the security guy, which you will find randomly dropped on 1 of every 250 MUGGERS in the bad part of town. Better make sure you stop by the item shop and pick up MEDIPACKS and a new COMBAT KNIFE those muggers are tough

Edited by cSand, 07 July 2014 - 05:07 PM.


#47 Blastfrenzy

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:42 PM

it would seem the game is still in alpha (adding mechs, adding maps, etc) stage, yet the devs say its already released? i've just started playing again after about 6 months... what is going on?

#48 Karamarka

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:50 PM

The destruction should be like Mechwarrior 4. Just the buildings and static objects.

It could even use the same destruction effect, where it just flattens into the ground - cover it up with some random explosive lol

#49 Koniving

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

View PostGayang3, on 07 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Here's an idea. Make destructible environments. Like what pretty much every other game has nowadays.


From back in 2012: "We will have destructible environments."
In 2013: "We will be limiting destruction to props due to engine limitations (so no craters in the ground to hide in)."
In 2014: ".....(Crickets)...."

#50 Gayang3

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:07 AM

View PostKoniving, on 07 July 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:


From back in 2012: "We will have destructible environments."
In 2013: "We will be limiting destruction to props due to engine limitations (so no craters in the ground to hide in)."
In 2014: ".....(Crickets)...."


Its like MWO is the only game that is actually going backwards in time :P

#51 UiA

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

I would love to see destructible environments in game. Also some armored divisions and infantry. And cars that drive around and swerve out of the way because OMG A ***** GIANT WAR MACHINE AHHHH!! My expectations of it ever happening? Eh maybe 0.1% chance, see I am an optimist.

#52 CDLord HHGD

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 06:07 AM

Just get rid of those stupid statues in front of the citadel in river city... When they can stop an atlas cold in it's tracks, there's something wrong. And if you're in a light, might as well enjoy the scenery because there's a good chance you aren't going anywhere.

#53 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:03 AM

Destructable enviroments will be the last thing they probably implement. I'm guessing it requires more work than people think and that type of effort needs to be poured into CW, Matchmaker, etc...

We may see it, but expect it to be pretty far off.

#54 CygnusX7

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

again... hahahahahahahha. Sorry but waaaay more important things we should be hoping, wishing, and praying for.

#55 ztac

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:34 AM

Yeah do this before you actually fix the game..... So much is badly implemented and has been since beta (it's actually got worse ..lol).

Come to think of it they push forward on a lot of stuff without getting the basics right, so why the hell not!

#56 Samurai 7

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:11 AM

The best all you can come up with is street lights and trees?

Come on man.
Dont tell me you wouldn't love to blow up the dam on river city sending a wall of water down the river sweeping all mech's caught in its path out to see and consequently out of bounds :)
Now that would be fun, especially on conquest where theta is in the middle of the river.

#57 Noth

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:18 AM

People have some really unrealistic expectations. Even Frostbite, which is made for destruction doesn't have fully destructible environments. Only recently did they add a collapsing building to the Battlefield games. CryEngine also is not built for actual destructible environments like people want. It is limited to basically props that are glued together. That doesn't even bring in the art, latency, and balance issues that would need to be looked at.

Edited by Noth, 11 July 2014 - 10:32 AM.


#58 C0VVB3LL

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:21 AM

Calm down and give 'em a chance guys it's still in alpha!

#59 Sephlock

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:25 AM

View PostWillard Phule, on 07 July 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Oh, yes! Let's have this before Community Warfare or a Matchmaker in the public queue that actually works.
Actually that sounds like a good idea, since CW is supposed to come with bad things like limited availability of equipment (based on whether your faction owns a given world or not) which would allow those who already own fully kitted out poptarts to have EVEN MORE of an advantage over newbies.

#60 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:58 PM

View PostEyeOne, on 07 July 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Destructible buildings is something I never want to see in this game. At least not fully. Cosmetic damage would be just fine but please let's not do full destructibility.

Why? Because using a building as cover is vital in a light/medium mech. Suddenly your cover can be blown up then we see "100% Assault" in the queue, everyone levels every building as soon as we start and it's boring slug fest. What I just described was a typical game of MechAssault. It was horrifically boring.

It's a game. Not reality. It has rules like "This is cover" and "This is not". And generally it works better that way. I've said it for a long time but destructible buildings in Battlefield are cool but I don't think it makes the game better. Just one man's unpopular opinion.

However, trees? Yeah, let's get those falling down please.


how about a middle ground like in Mechwarrior 3 or 4, where some buildings were destructable, but other's were "hardened" and nearly impossible to bring down?





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