44 replies to this topic

[Karamarka]

JonahGrimm, on 07 July 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Analyze that and you'll figure out your loss

Blaming the matchmaker is usually the refuge of those who didn't pay attention to the fight. That's essentially not the matchmaker's fault.

Cause analyzing what my team mates did in a game where i'll never see the same person again is really going to help me.

It's not my fault my dumb team suicides their assaults in, cant work mech lab to save their life (lol PPC lights, what meta noobs).

SO yeah. even tho i have a 1.3 W/L and a 2.2KDR with average over 500DMG a game in my proper mechs, i still get Trial players, idiots who just rush in and other dudes who cant even make a setup to save their life.

The only part i agree with in your post is that as soon as you lose mechs your in for a world of hurt.

It's like CounterStrike, except one player cant headshot 5 people with 5 bullets and win the match 1v5.

Edited by Karamarka, 08 July 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[JonahGrimm]

Karamarka, on 08 July 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Cause analyzing what my team mates did in a game where i'll never see the same person again is really going to help me.

It will, if you take a moment to think it through. Understanding why the PUG does something teaches you how to work with the PUG.

What you've written there is a common sentiment, but it's also a very incorrect one. People in groups are akin to a sort of AI - they have responses that are as predictable as a tide - if you bother to take the time to analyze what happened, to think through the fight and how it developed, you can use those to your advantage on both sides of the battlefield.

If you're not interested, that's fine - but your lack of interest just makes it easier for you to be on the losing side.

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It's not my fault my dumb team suicides their assaults in, cant work mech lab to save their life (lol PPC lights, what meta noobs).

... my Locust-3M is an ERPPC sometimes, and it's just fun. Usually pulls 600 dmg and a handful of kills. Am I, then, your 'meta noob?' Do people who experiment with builds, try out odd combinations, bother you?

It happens. This attitude, though, toward people who play differently than you, is bothersome to me. Do you, in some way, assume it's never your fault that you lose? That it's never your bad choices that sway a match? THe other team's making the same bad choices your team is - what's the deciding factor, then, in the fight?

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SO yeah. even tho i have a 1.3 W/L and a 2.2KDR with average over 500DMG a game in my proper mechs, i still get Trial players, idiots who just rush in and other dudes who cant even make a setup to save their life.

Do you not realize that the other team has pretty much exactly the same make-up You're not special, and the game isn't picking on you - if that's what you're dropping with, that's what's on the other team, too. That's just how the matchmaker works - but I'm sure you're not noticing the idiots on their side that just rush in, or the LRM stalkers with no backup weapons (MAN, I love those crazy guys - such fun to cut up. ), or guys like me with my experimental boats ... at least in the same way.

If you're losing, then, consistently, with this truth - perhaps there's a different problem.

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The only part i agree with in your post is that as soon as you lose mechs your in for a world of hurt.

It's like CounterStrike, except one player cant headshot 5 people with 5 bullets and win the match 1v5.

Yup. CS is fairly lame like that. MWO is much more of a team-oriented game - and that's key. I'll tell ya - I run a lot of lights. LIghts are, in fact, my favorite weight class - and two nights ago I had a game with 84 damage and no kills. Sad, right?

Except... I played the squirrel.

We were on Terra Therma, outside of the caldera, looking in at a group /in/ the caldera. The PUG was doing its usual thing - standing in the entrances, being a giant, slowly ablating cork, getting in its own way. I flanked with a group, then dove in with a NARC-equipped Jenner, throwing myself through the middle of roughly the entire enemy team.

Being a PUG, they of course chased the light. The minute they turned on me, my team piled into the caldera - it took just one person charging across the line, and people got brave. We finished the match 12-2.

Yes, I exploded - and some PUGger with a similar tone to yours actually made fun of me for my 'poor showing'. Sad, really - but it goes to show, if you pay attention to the PUG, you'll notice that:

1) Generally, if someone takes an action, the PUG will support it.
2) The enemy PUG has base tendencies you can exploit.

SO I charged, and leveraged the PUG's tendency to chase squirrels. We won in a ROFLstomp. The team was no better or worse than ours - my team made better decisions when they had an opportunity.

Edited by JonahGrimm, 08 July 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Chive On]

I've got most of the Clan mechs, but I keep going back to my SPIDERS.

Not just the D, but a flamer/MG K SPIDER.

I will sometimes run with other lights/sometimes I will jump about flaming two to three mechs in a group.
This usually will reek havoc, and helps the TEAM.

I might not score amazing damage, but I will target and distract multiple mechs.
I've done over 1200 damage and I've done 30.

I've taken some "heat" for my tactics but I've also gotten more than a few, damn dude that was KOOL.
KCCO

[cleghorn6]

JonahGrimm, on 08 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

It will, if you take a moment to think it through. Understanding why the PUG does something teaches you how to work with the PUG.

Words..

This.

Everything this.

I applaud you, sir. Well played.

[Samual Kalkin]

It has reach the point where I usually know my team will be ROFLStomped before the first shot is fired. They way that a team acts you can tell if they want to fight or cower, and when they want to cower, unless the other team is even more cowardly, it will be ROFLStomp. A ROFLStomp is more about how your team plays, than how the enemy team plays.

An example: If they are all running for the cover point that was "the only way" to play a map in people's minds last summer in the first 20 seconds, and there is someone spouting "stick together" "stick together", it is a sure sign that they will be leaving 3+ fire lines open and get *********.

[Zelumbras]

Karamarka, on 08 July 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Cause analyzing what my team mates did in a game where i'll never see the same person again is really going to help me.

My experience differs greately at this point and there are almost now games in which i get dropped in with all unfamilar names. Also, matches tend to follow certain patterns and if you pay attention you can often predict the next move of both your and the opposite team with decent accuracy.

Lets give an example of applying that knowledge:
River City [Skirmish]: The match usually starts with everyone running counter clockwise like beheaded chickens so any slow mechs in the 'left' lance (Alpha for the team starting upper, Charlie for lower) are simply abandoned. This will lead to loosing 2-4 mechs very early in every other match there. Knowing this you now have three basic choices:
1. do the usual and abandon them -> you will be unharmed (yet!) but your team will probably loose several mechs and the initiative.
2. you come to their aid a.) alone or b.) with several other mechs -> a.) can go either way b.) now the enemy will loose a bunch probably turning this match into your favour.
3. you give them fire support while they slug up to the main force -> even a little resistance from an unexpected angle early on will often halt the enemies advance and you get a few cheap shots at unsuspecting mechs.

Depending on what you chose to do the match will now enter a different stage at which point you can now again decide how to either react or take the initiative.


There are many basic moves that you will learn for each of the maps/modes/team compositions and however difficult it may sometimes be to apply them in a PuG match, it is worth trying much more often than not. I have seen countless matches in which doing something out of the ordinary completely turned around a fight.

Edited by Vulcan888, 08 July 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Seppe]

Also every once in awhile a 5yr old grabs the controls and goes haywire. This happened over the weekend - My daughter wanted to play so off she went and she wouldnt let me help. Once some of the teamates found out, most were pretty cool about it. Kudos to them.

Life sometimes gets in the way for better or worse.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Xeno Phalcon, on 07 July 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Think this is the worst thing about being roflstomped, Im aware its happening and can't stop it (most of the time) being a team oriented game where there is no team work is bad.

Pugs life and all that jazz, though me and a timberwolf on caustic earlier banded together as the last two standing and killed SIX of the enemy team together before the wolf was downed and the last two enemy pilots avoided me for a resource win but still we went from 4-10 to 10-11 with a little team work.

Love when a couple of good pilots click and deal the damage. Unfortunately, most of the time when you see a ROFLstomp in process. all that is left Is to do your best to get a kill and then move on.

[Ursh]

You can't magically work with the other solo pilots. You can ask them to do simple and smart things, but over 50% of the time they either aren't reading the chat or they're the kind of person who 'don't take orders from no one', except their boss, their wife, their pastor, their television, etc.

You can be nice, you can be reasonable, and they still won't listen most of the time.
"Stop huddling from the LRM fire and flank left into B3 please" Nope, nope, nope. Maybe one or two of them will start moving, but when they see the other four just sitting there huddling, they will falter.

It's extremely tempting to drop arty on your own team in this kind of situation. They should be punished for refusing to move out of a horrible position once you've asked nicely and explained why it is in their best interests to move.

Then you'll get the guys who have played a few matches, and think they know everything there is to know, and they'll busily give orders that are horribly ********. Sometimes I follow them just to see what happens, because I'm open-minded like that.

[Smokeyjedi]

Its the extremely well used Meta team of 12 man clan mechs that take the fun outta stomps either way, Handing out buttkickings requires that you take a few buttkickings.......Unless You really do find something satisfying in cleaning the pug masses clocks, in ur GhostTeddy Team of Meta humpers.......could you even try harder? LMAO

[JonahGrimm]

Smokeyjedi, on 09 July 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

Its the extremely well used Meta team of 12 man clan mechs that take the fun outta stomps either way, Handing out buttkickings requires that you take a few buttkickings.......Unless You really do find something satisfying in cleaning the pug masses clocks, in ur GhostTeddy Team of Meta humpers.......could you even try harder? LMAO

I'm not sure I understand. Call me odd, I suppose - but. Er.

- I don't generally do the 12man thing - I'm almost always a PUGger, and my biggest drop to date was, in fact, a 10-man. That happened...twice. Ever. Fun, though!

- I find it interesting that there's suddenly a conversation about the 'meta' clan mechs - which are anything but meta, if you go by what was meta before the day they dropped. In my own opinion, which matters very little, the clans did a wonderful job in shaking things up, and I'm seeing more weapon diversity now than I saw in the several weeks prior to the clan invasion.

- I'm not a ghost bear. Not now, not ever. Davion for life!

- 12 man teams don't drop against the solo PUG - and 12-mans, regardless of composition, are difficult to beat. My experience has been mostly losses, but several stunning wins (but only a couple roflstomps either way).

If they're playing well.. I'm not sure I understand the problem?

[JonahGrimm]

Ursh, on 09 July 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

You can't magically work with the other solo pilots. You can ask them to do simple and smart things, but over 50% of the time they either aren't reading the chat or they're the kind of person who 'don't take orders from no one', except their boss, their wife, their pastor, their television, etc.

You can be nice, you can be reasonable, and they still won't listen most of the time.
"Stop huddling from the LRM fire and flank left into B3 please" Nope, nope, nope. Maybe one or two of them will start moving, but when they see the other four just sitting there huddling, they will falter.

It's extremely tempting to drop arty on your own team in this kind of situation. They should be punished for refusing to move out of a horrible position once you've asked nicely and explained why it is in their best interests to move.

The thing to remember, though, is that the other team is also made of these guys.

What you can do is lead by example - I like to run through the group and dive into an enemy formation in that situation. Most of the time, they'll follow (and often target my target, weirdly enough) and we'll core out some bad guys. If not? Well, I die early, and that's okay too - all the faster for me to hop into another match.

PUGs are predictable - but all pugs are pugs. That's the thing everyone forgets: your team may do something very derpy, but you can influence that. THe other team is ALSO doing something derpy, practically guaranteed... and if nobody's doing the influencing, you'll often discover that your subtle pokes change things for the better for your side.

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Then you'll get the guys who have played a few matches, and think they know everything there is to know, and they'll busily give orders that are horribly ********. Sometimes I follow them just to see what happens, because I'm open-minded like that.

Heh. THose are sometimes my most fun matches - though the guy that figured out the B2 line charge in Crimson is a genius, and that came out of nowhere (for me) in a PUG.

Sometimes, it works! Sometimes, it's just crazy fun. Sometimes, it's just crazy. At least they're trying something - which is more than most!

[IraqiWalker]

Smokeyjedi, on 09 July 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

Its the extremely well used Meta team of 12 man clan mechs that take the fun outta stomps either way, Handing out buttkickings requires that you take a few buttkickings.......Unless You really do find something satisfying in cleaning the pug masses clocks, in ur GhostTeddy Team of Meta humpers.......could you even try harder? LMAO

I'll match 12 clan "META" (they're not) mechs. Against 12 Dragon Slayers. In 12 mans, there usually aren't that many rofl-stomps. This one will be an absolutely complete stomp in favor of the Dragon Slayers.

[Xeno Phalcon]

PUGing is a different sort of beast than team play, everyone friend and foe is a wild card. But to be honest, i'll take being rolled 3 out of 5 matches any day of the week if it means I can play my way. Im almost reminded of raiding in WoW vanilla - Welcome! Now respec to tank, with this very specific build, download these mods and do as I say.

Here it just translates to go buy a dragonslayer, put some ppcs and ac5s on, jump up and down like a midget on a pogo stick for five minutes till the enemy team is dead, rinse repeat till you get bored and go play something else.
------------------------------

Thats not to say even when PUGing goes well is it all peaches and fairy farts, was just on terra therma and a twolf spider and victor completely bottled up just outside of theta, I literally had to ram and wiggle my way through to get them to do anything (Well, murdering a nova and highlander after going in might have had something to do with it too) but once I got past them I had a blast

[Kmieciu]

JonahGrimm, on 07 July 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'm playing with kitting out a Spider 5K as an Urbanmech, and have brawler Trebuchets for fun.

It's the players like you that are responsible for rolfstomps. If you bring a joke build into a match, prepare to get stomped by serious builds.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 July 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

Kmieciu, on 21 July 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

It's the players like you that are responsible for rolfstomps. If you bring a joke build into a match, prepare to get stomped by serious builds.

Why so serious? Game not fun?

[1453 R]

MY GOD, SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT.

All the +1s, Mr. Grimm. All the +1s.

[IraqiWalker]

This game is supposed to be about having fun. Quirky builds are a major part of that, and since losing has literally no impact on the game at the end, since CW isn't here yet, people should be a bit more relaxed about it. However, I find it very helpful to mention at the start of the match that you are running a joke/untested build.

That can help the team understand, and not expect something from you that you're not going to deliver.

[Aernir]

I can barely believe this even had to be spelled out. It should be obvious to just about anyone that a game which doesn't allow you to recover your resources (armor/ammo/mechs) will start to snowball pretty hard once one side gains a significant advantage. I'd like to add that fair number of stomps aren't quite as one sided as they seem. More than a few times I've been on the winning side of a "stomp" that could have very easily swung the other way, with most of the team being a small laser or two from death.

It can be pretty hard to distinguish these from the pure stomps, though match length and average damage of the losing team is a good indicator that the match was a lot closer than it looks by kills alone. Maybe we could have the end of match screen show the damage state of the mechs left alive?

[The Great Unwashed]

Plus total damage done by both teams.