110 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Sandpit, if you don't see your posts as inflammatory then I can only assume you lack introspection. I'm discussing in good faith, as you will notice I have not "gone after" anyone else "skill" since I don't know any of you, and this is the internet.

If you read the WHOLE first post, I was asking what people thought might improve lights/mediums, not complaining about the one time with a direwolf. Heck, I've had them remove a side torso in an Awesome as well, you just have fight them different. So try to be civil, please.

again, you asked why, I explained to you why. There's nothing more to it than that. You asked why you were getting the replies you got. I explained to you why.

You wanted to know why people were responding with their replies.
I answered you and explained why

That's it, it's really that simple. There was nothing inflamatory about me explaining to you why others are responding in that manner.

If you really want to see some of the ideas that are being suggested and weigh in on them why wouldn't you just read through the existing threads and chime in with your ideas as well instead of starting a new thread where everyone just has to repeat everything that's already been said and discussed several times?

There's nothing harsh about that, I just pointed out something and asked you a question. There's nothing personal nor uncivil on my end. If you want better responses to your thread I was offering you advice on how to avoid those types of responses. That's it

[Sahoj]

Oh, added - I think the best way to make Medium (and light) mechs a more viable option are as Hellcat is hinting at - less team deathmatch style game modes.

(and Hellcat and I don't usually agree on things)

Edited by Sahoj, 07 July 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

I think this whole forum is still suffering from PSD from reddedit and the days of "everything pgi does sucks". I like MWO, I like the game, heck I even think PGI is doing a descent job all things considered. But everyone here thinks you either hate the game and are trying to destroy it or you're a white knight who jumps on anyone with a negative opinion. My OP was not inflammatory, it was just a guy asking a question. This is the kind of stuff that keeps people out of the community.

[Sandpit]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

I think this whole forum is still suffering from PSD from reddedit and the days of "everything pgi does sucks". I like MWO, I like the game, heck I even think PGI is doing a descent job all things considered. But everyone here thinks you either hate the game and are trying to destroy it or you're a white knight who jumps on anyone with a negative opinion. My OP was not inflammatory, it was just a guy asking a question. This is the kind of stuff that keeps people out of the community.

I never said it was inflammatory. I never attacked you. I'm seriously just trying to explain to you why you got those responses and what you can do to help prevent responses like that in the future. It's got nothing to do with "i hate pgi" or "I love pgi". It has to do with your post didn't offer any kind of suggestions and the only example used was in reference to an assault killing a medium mech.

I was trying to help you get better responses as well as pointing out that when you post #34785 on the same topic that's already got numerous conversations going on, you're more likely to get people responding like that. I was just trying to help you out but ok

[Zfailboat]

People are not playing light and medium mechs currently in great numbers for 2 simple reasons. 1. its hilarious to watch small mechs go boom in 1 shot with the high alphas that are around. 2. currently heavies / assaults are easy mode. As for how to fix it - well its simple, is so easy even Blizzard have done it with Wow. force people to the 4 x 3 ratio. make people (including groups) who Queue in mixtures of heavy / assault mechs out of proportion wait 10 or 20 minutes for a group and give them an approx. waiting time. whilst lights / mediums get matches in 10 seconds flat. Forcing people to weight down to play decent mechs or wait for ages to play.

[Bishop Steiner]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm trying to level my medium clan mechs, and it's hard when a Direwolf can take your leg to red/off in one shot. I won't group with my team in a medium/light because that makes me a liability, and it's not something an enforced weight class mix will fix.

As long as mediums are so easily hit, and clan mechs can put 4-5 ac's and 1-2 PPC at a time on you, bringing a medium mech will just lower your score.

It's not the players fault that the queue's for those mechs hover under 20%, it's because if you want to compete, those weight classes start you at a disadvantage. Not that you can't do well in them, just that it's considerably harder and to many, not worth the effort.

I'm open to suggestion, what could they do to make those classes competitive again?

speak for yourself. I rather prefer Mediums to any other weight class.

[Tezcatli]

I think a size reduction and a bigger boost to speed would help mediums. But other than that. You can't go trading shots directly with opponents. Has to be hit and run or support fire against targets that aren't focused on you. As a medium you can bring your firepower to a target faster then heavies and assaults. But only by so much. A better speed bonus would make them better able to do this and avoid some damage. Doesn't help that a Timberwolf can go 81-89 kph, carry more armor, and more weapons. : /

[Vassago Rain]

It's fortunate they implemented ten manz now, rather than later, or I wouldn't be hogging a shadowhaw- I mean a medium slot in our drops for grinding purposes.

But yes, their system is awful. Weak mechs gonna be weak and bad, no matter how many you force people to field. It's like mandatory tactical marines in 40k. It doesn't matter how many you force me to take, I'll bring the bare minimum every single time. Guess MWO has the advantage, since both griffins and shaqs are at least capable of hanging with the big gundams.

[Blarkon]

I'm a bit surprised that there isn't a "class only" skirmish mode. 12 lights vs 12 lights, 12 mediums versus 12 mediums, 12 assaults versus 12 assaults. In the fiction companies tend to be of a similar class. There'd be a lot less room for complaint if everyone you were up against was running Mechs in a similar weight class.

[Navy Sixes]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm open to suggestion, what could they do to make those classes competitive again?

I've got one word for you gentlemen, just one word... scale. Right now we've got mediums as tall as assaults. Take the biggest light and make it a meter taller. That's how big a 40-ton mech should be. Take the smallest heavy and make it a meter shorter. That's how big a 55 ton mech should be. Everything in between should scale somewhere... in between.
Size matters.

[Spleenslitta]

I can't say anything about mediums, but i do just fine in my Firestarter/Jenner. 200-400 damage with a rare 600-900.
Get out of cover - shoot once or twice - get back into cover - relocate at least 300 meters. Repeat.

Stay on the flank or rear enemy territory. Do not join the firingline.

[Khobai]

The game should give a dynamic cbill adjustment for playing certain weight classes based on usage percentage.

For example:
25% - usage % = cbill adjustment

So if light mechs are played 10% of the time they would get a 25%-10% = +15% cbill adjustment

If heavy mechs are played 40% of the time they would get a 25%-40% = -15% cbill adjustment

So youd be rewarded for playing the underdog weight classes and penalized for playing the dominant weight classes.


That would be a good stopgap measure until role warfare is added to the game. Because thats what we really need: ROLE WARFARE. To make lights and mediums good at certain roles that heavies and assaults are bad at. That way all weight classes are equally important to winning.

A good place to start is with sensors:
1) only lights and mediums should be able to use sensor related modules or BAP.
2) only lights and mediums should get a base sensor range of 800m.
3) heavies and assaults should get a much lower base sensor range... say 400m-600m.

Edited by Khobai, 07 July 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[NextGame]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

I think this whole forum is still suffering from PSD from reddedit and the days of "everything pgi does sucks". I like MWO, I like the game, heck I even think PGI is doing a descent job all things considered. But everyone here thinks you either hate the game and are trying to destroy it or you're a white knight who jumps on anyone with a negative opinion. My OP was not inflammatory, it was just a guy asking a question. This is the kind of stuff that keeps people out of the community.

If people are that much of a soft touch, they are going to be offended by every game community there is.


Back to the topic:

Some mediums are passable. Most are still crap.

There are definate scaling issues, and no amount of contrary opinion from apologists will convince me otherwise. They are definately undergunned for their physical size in comparison to the atlas, which is essentially the baseline for size.


Second thing:

No one wants to be support, everyone wants to be the hero. Therefore players do not take mechs in which they do not feel that they get to be the hero. This standard mode of conduct is enhanced by the lack of reward for playing anything other than the big gun killing machine.

Edited by NextGame, 07 July 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Karamarka]

WhoDidTheElf, on 07 July 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Well my Nova is rocking a 3.4 K/D ratio. I'd hardly say they are bad.

You just can't run around like a light or expect to win a fire fight like a heavy or assault.

I just did a game with my Adder-A (Which as a light, i feel is worse than Kitfox - I play teamwork only so Kitfox has my tools) but i had more damage than everyone on my team (782) except for a Direwolf-B(?).

I personally think Lights are good, they have fantastic damage application as they are light. But the gamemodes really mean that bigger is better, cause in the end it's all about killing. (1 Light takes forever to capture a base, and cant handle base defences that well either - so that's 2 game modes it should be good on - it's not really at all)

Overall, i did 782 damage yes. But if i had a direwolf myself it would probably be higher, lights overall need a role boost and so do mediums i think. Something they can add other than firepower - idk details really.

Edited by Karamarka, 07 July 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[Deathlike]

Buffs to accel, decel, and turn speed would all be needed really for mediums.

Unfortunately, the Nerfinator says otherwise.

[Kassatsu]

As a player, I resent this thread.

My gold Adder would like a word.

My Kit Fox would like a word.

My Nova and Stormcrow would also like a word.

My- Okay, while I still own a SDR-5D and RVN-3L, I literally never play them, so I suppose you got me on those two.

All of which I've had 750+ damage 3+ kill matches in.

I even scored a kill in a Locust AND survived a match once. With like 300 damage.

Shadowhawk is also pretty popular thanks to the meta and premade drop size restrictions (though honestly if you're below 10 you're probably taking heavies/assaults and an ECM light or three).

Edited by Kassatsu, 07 July 2014 - 11:38 PM.

[Zelator]

Mediums are just fine, while they don't excel in any aspect such as Speed, Firepower, Armor or Manouverability they make up for it by being better than average in all aspects. I think that most players that fail in mediums forget the fact that the best way to play them is to exploit the enemies weakness while using your strenghts to their full potential.

Facing an assault or heavy? use you superior speed and manouverability.
Lights? Use your firepower and armor advantage.
Other mediums are a fair fight most of the time.

Hell, even clan mechs are no match against the power of the almighty Kintaro-20


Took out the DWF-Prime by myself basically in a 1vs1 with just 4 medium lasers and 3xSRM6 without artemis. And I only had a top sped of 88kph not to mention Kintaro's are arguably one of the worst medium mechs aside from the streak basedlight hunter builds. And the Kintaro-20 is supposedly weaker than the other Kintaros.

Edited by Zelator, 07 July 2014 - 11:43 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Kassatsu, on 07 July 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

As a player, I resent this thread.

My gold Adder would like a word.

My Kit Fox would like a word.

My Nova and Stormcrow would also like a word.

My- Okay, while I still own a SDR-5D and RVN-3L, I literally never play them, so I suppose you got me on those two.

All of which I've had 750+ damage 3+ kill matches in.

I even scored a kill in a Locust AND survived a match once. With like 300 damage.

Shadowhawk is also pretty popular thanks to the meta and premade drop size restrictions (though honestly if you're below 10 you're probably taking heavies/assaults and an ECM light or three).

>gold puma
>3048.

I seriously hope you freebirths don't do this.

[Kassatsu]

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

>gold puma
>3048.

I seriously hope you freebirths don't do this.

Pretty sure it's 3049, and too late because it's already there.

Isn't breaking the timeline and lore fun? Brb, buying an american flag for my red/white/blue confetti dire wolf. It plays dubstep.

Edited by Kassatsu, 07 July 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Kassatsu, on 07 July 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

Pretty sure it's 3049, and too late because it's already there.

Isn't breaking the timeline and lore fun? Brb, buying an american flag for my red/white/blue confetti dire wolf. It plays dubstep.

Yeah, most of my mechs are timemachines. I've got happy 3050 banners and holos in most of my robots. Also, variants from the 3050s, even though we're either in 3048 or 3049. They can't seem to decide.

3050 holo confirmed for viable forever.