84 replies to this topic

[Alexandrix]

Livewyr, on 08 July 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Real Solution? Drop the RoF of both PPCs and Gauss by almost half.. 7s and 8s respectively. It is absurd they have among the longest ranges in the game, and yet fire as quickly as the SRMs and AC20...

Indeed sir,indeed.
The world would be better place if you could make a guass/PPC meta mech pay for his crimes once you got up on top of him.Sadly,as it is,they brawl just as well as the "brawlers".Maybe even better since a lot of "brawler" weapons require time on target,staring at your opponent,where as the poptart can just dump 30-50 PPFLD and then turn away to take the damage in his shield side.It's basically the best of all worlds in one mech.

Edited by Alexandrix, 08 July 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Rhaythe, on 08 July 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

So instead of 1 heat, gauss generates 2? Does ghost heat still kick in if you have 2 gauss rifles and 1 PPC? If so, we're still not talking about any significant heat values.

Ghost heat uses the highest heat in the group for punishment purposes. So if you fire a bunch of LRM15s with a single LRM20, you take ghost heat as if all of them were LRM20.

[Voivode]

Livewyr, on 08 July 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Real Solution? Drop the RoF of both PPCs and Gauss by almost half.. 7s and 8s respectively. It is absurd they have among the longest ranges in the game, and yet fire as quickly as the SRMs and AC20...

QFT

You do this you can just dump ghost heat and the charge up mechanic. Why long range weapons have similar dps to short range weapons is beyond me.

[IceCase88]

The answer is the random hit mechanic. It would still require skill and accuracy to hit the enemy mech. It would put an end to PP FLD, damage/hit reg issues, ghost heat, hitbox issues thus making all mechs viable, convergence issues, the need for constant weapons tuning, it would make all weapons systems viable, etc.. Heck it would probably slice and dice good, make the best fruit smoothie ever, and clear up that nasty foot fungus you have. Seriously though... one thing could fix the whole game and it is already implemented in the game in the form of SSRMs. It would need to be fine tuned a bit but it would work.

[Koniving]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

If we're going to add arbitrary penalties, at least do it with some style. Some of my personal favourites:

• Yeti attack. A yeti, like the one in Ski Free or Die, will run at you from the edge of the map in alpine, causing instant death.
  
• Monty Python. A huge foot will descend from the clouds above, crushing your mech instantly, followed by a fart sound.
  
• Earthworm Jim. A big cow will fall from the sky, destroying your cockpit. Earthworm Jim will appear in front of the screen and say "Groovy!"

Better than ghost heat!

[Ph30nix]

no the answer is to get rid of ghost heat and fix the heat system period.

after that make DPS weapons more viable so they arent as gimped vs direct damage weapons and you will see more diversity.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I mean you could do it, but then you need to do it with all AC's as well.

I like Livewyr's idea better.

If you have a 7 or 8 second CD on PPCs and Gauss Rifles, you sure as hell better have back up weapons or you are going to have major issues when someone gets close.

Still not sure that's enough to stop a dedicated team of jump snipers like HoL though.

[ManDaisy]

7-8 second cool down and being shot for 50 pinpoint at 800 meters means absolutely nothing.

[Livewyr]

ManDaisy, on 08 July 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

7-8 second cool down and being shot for 50 pinpoint at 800 meters means absolutely nothing.

Until they get close. (Currently, getting close does not matter.)

[Koniving]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Doesn't nerf ppcs or gauss, just a specific problem.

Add Gauss to PPCs for ghost heat. Gauss sniper uneffected. Lone ppc builds uneffected.

Simpler solution.
Make it so that PPCs and ER PPCs can't be fired while the Gauss Rifle is charging or within 0.5 seconds of it firing.

Or give PPCs significantly longer recharge times?
(Currently Clan ER PPC = 45 damage in 8 seconds. Gauss Rifle = 45 damage in 10.25 seconds assuming every shot is perfect).

Edited by Koniving, 08 July 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Doesn't nerf ppcs or gauss, just a specific problem.

Add Gauss to PPCs for ghost heat. Gauss sniper uneffected. Lone ppc builds uneffected.

No rework of convergence required.

No need to nerf chassis.

F**king Ghost Heat.... but it works.

Well, I completely agree with you Mischief. There is one thing, though, that is missing, beside adding ALL cannons to PPCs for Ghost Heat: PGI never updated the heat values of PPCs after they nerfed them from 8 and 12. So, they still need to go back and fix that and then they can calculate the impact of ACs being with PPCs.

On top of that, PGI needs to add streaks to LRMs for GH.

Oh, and we need Ghost Lock-Time too

[Livewyr]

Firing a PPC in combination with anything should result in an instantaneous Orbital Bombardment with Naval AC40s.

[Heeden]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 08 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I mean you could do it, but then you need to do it with all AC's as well.

I like Livewyr's idea better.

If you have a 7 or 8 second CD on PPCs and Gauss Rifles, you sure as hell better have back up weapons or you are going to have major issues when someone gets close.

Still not sure that's enough to stop a dedicated team of jump snipers like HoL though.

I'd go for something like a 2 second shared cool-down on sniper weapons. 2 PPC's or Gauss would have the same DPS but less up-front damage. More than 2 would wasted (after the second shared cooldown the original cooldown would be up).

Chassis like the Awesome could have the shared cool-down removed; as they're low-slung, non-jumping and generally an unpopular mech that shouldn't be too game-breaking.

Edited by Heeden, 08 July 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 08 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I mean you could do it, but then you need to do it with all AC's as well.

I like Livewyr's idea better.

If you have a 7 or 8 second CD on PPCs and Gauss Rifles, you sure as hell better have back up weapons or you are going to have major issues when someone gets close.

Still not sure that's enough to stop a dedicated team of jump snipers like HoL though.

The only problem with extending the cool downs on PPCs and Gauss Rifles is that it then promotes more Lrg Lasers and still does nothing about multiple ACs.

I don't like Ghost Heat but I get the point of it. I wouldn't mind a longer cool down on the biggest weapons in the game with the longest ranges in the game. But, ultimately, MWO needs a combination of cool down adjustments, ghost heat, and overall heat penalties. We currently only have one which is why we've got awful combinations like PPCs/AC/GRs. The whole point of checks and balances is to keep any one part from creating advantage over the others.

[MischiefSC]

Again, a comprehensive ppfld fix would be awesome. Maybe after cw, right? The problem with long cooldown is shafting single ppc/gauss builds. Ghost heat is in the toolbox right now and fixes the problem while changing nothing else.

This is exactly why ghost heat was spawned.

[Livewyr]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Again, a comprehensive ppfld fix would be awesome. Maybe after cw, right? The problem with long cooldown is shafting single ppc/gauss builds. Ghost heat is in the toolbox right now and fixes the problem while changing nothing else.

This is exactly why ghost heat was spawned.

I completely disagree.
It would hurt them a little bit, but because they have OTHER weapons, they are not hurt nearly as much as the ***ONLY*** PPC/Gauss Builds...

Do you know why it is UN-affectionately called "Ghost Heat?" Because it is arbitrary, and makes no sense.
And clearly, even doing it to 3+ PPCs has changed NOTHING. (except the already silly 6xPPC STK)

Those are still LONG range weapons with the SAME RoF as SHORT range weapons... what is the downside?
Heat? Not with DHS.
Gauss Fragility? Not a problem if they cannot get close. (Which is largely due to the PPC/Gauss being able to shoot at Short range RoF.. for the entirety of the jaunt to them.) And, if for some reason you cannot handle the Gauss Fragility.. you can always go to the 2xAC5 as replacement...

[MischiefSC]

I ran a basics only Cent with gauss and an erll last night. Longer cooldown would eliminate that completely. Only way to make ppcs/gauss viable then is to boat. Otherwise any other weapon is better. Longer cool down is an issue for 50 pt dwolf but not a real fix, hes fragile up close and 1 shot kill at range.

That is still the issue. 4ppc stalker were the same.

[Mcgral18]

ManDaisy, on 08 July 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

7-8 second cool down and being shot for 50 pinpoint at 800 meters means absolutely nothing.

Aside from that fact when they get close they can shoot 3 times it takes for the above build to fire once.

Instead of the 50 PP FLD weapon having the same cooldown and 3 times the range.

[Livewyr]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

I ran a basics only Cent with gauss and an erll last night. Longer cooldown would eliminate that completely. Only way to make ppcs/gauss viable then is to boat. Otherwise any other weapon is better. Longer cool down is an issue for 50 pt dwolf but not a real fix, hes fragile up close and 1 shot kill at range.

That is still the issue. 4ppc stalker were the same.

Longer cooldown would not eliminate that completely.. it would just mean you cannot BRAWL as well as you can SNIPE.

Why should something with 2-3 times the range, have the same Rate of Fire?

[MischiefSC]

Way more weight, explodes, charge up mechanic? Ll has more range than ml too. Doesnt mean ll should have less dps.