53 replies to this topic

[LuckJaw]

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

My 2 questions for you is...

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

and 2

This is the proof to me that clan mech are way too powerfull then IS mech... I know there suppose to be like that, but like this, it's ridiculous.

Edited by LuckJaw, 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Appogee]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

There was a group lunch? Why the hell wasn't I invited?!

But seriously, they're already trying to balance for weight classes and Elos. There's not enough players to also balance for equal numbers of IS and Clan on each side. (In fact, many players are arguing that there shouldn't be any mixture of Clan and IS Mechs on a side.)

However, I don't agree with your premise that Clan mechs are more powerful than IS mechs.

Yes, they were in lore, but not in MWO. In MWO, the limitations on engine sizes, and autocannons, and streaming LRMs, all serve to reduce the effectiveness of Clan Mechs so that they're roughly competitive with IS Mechs.

While I haven't Elited all my Clan Mechs, so my views are still preliminary, at this stage, I score higher more consistently in my best IS Mechs. (The possible exception is the Timber Wolf, which will no doubt be nerfed soon, just as its IS equivalent the Dragon Slayer was.)

Edited by Appogee, 08 July 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Bilbo]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

My 2 questions for you is...

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

and 2

This is the proof to me that clan mech are way too powerfull then IS mech... I know there suppose to be like that, but like this, it's ridiculous.

More likely, the reason for your loss was a much larger premade on the other side. Dropping in the solo queue, I haven't really seen any real disparity between Clans and IS mechs.

[Appogee]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

Not exactly a statistically large sample from which to draw conclusions, was it.

[Pjwned]

Yep, 2 games is enough to claim that clans are OP and absolve you of any blame for playing poorly.

[Sable]

Appogee, on 08 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

[/size]
But seriously, they're already trying to balance for weight classes and Elos. There's not enough players to also balance for equal numbers of IS and Clan on each side. (In fact, many players are arguing that there shouldn't be any mixture of Clan and IS Mechs on a side.)

No evidence to support your claim of low population numbers. I play every day with people i've never seen or heard of before. Just because you want it to be true to provide backing for your rant doesn't make it true.

[Gayang3]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

You have 2 data points, do you know how many conclusive theories can be made with 2 data points? NONE

Quote

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

Oh and the next time there is a group lunch, I want to get that memo too.

[Gallowglas]

Until we see segregated IS/Clan teams with similarly skilled players on both sides and analyze the results across a significant number of matches, I don't know how anyone can draw a conclusion about relative balance. Even if there is a skew, my Misery still wrecks face. I strongly suspect any imbalance is the result of the PPC/Gauss meta and not the balance of any specific chassis or other weapons. But you know what? That, too, is just an opinion. There's no "proof" to be had here.

[Sandpit]

So now they should limit or match clan mechs? Come on guys. Seriously.

Stop and think about what you're really asking for here. That's no different than asking pgi to limit a particular chassis because you didn't have the same amount of phracts or atlases or etc. on your team...

[Appogee]

Sable, on 08 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

No evidence to support your claim of low population numbers. I play every day with people i've never seen or heard of before.

The devs have explained the constraints on the number of variables they can use for matchmaking. That's why they even had to build in "release valves" to ease the few constraints they are presently matching with.

Sable, on 08 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Just because you want it to be true to provide backing for your rant doesn't make it true.

1. How on earth can you pretend to know what I "want to be true"...? (BTW, you're wrong on what I want.)
2. Which part of my answering the OP's question seems like a "rant" to you, and why...?
3. What medication did you skip a dose of...?

Congratulations, you win today's Bizarre Response of the Day. Please stop by the pharmacy to collect your prize.

Edited by Appogee, 08 July 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[EyeOne]

Appogee, on 08 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

The devs have explained the constraints on the number of variables they can use for matchmaking. That's why they even had to build in "release valves" to ease the few constraints they are presently matching with.[/size]

Maybe. But that "5%" under lights and mediums might have something to do with it too. Ya think?

[Heeden]

Sandpit, on 08 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

So now they should limit or match clan mechs? Come on guys. Seriously.

Stop and think about what you're really asking for here. That's no different than asking pgi to limit a particular chassis because you didn't have the same amount of phracts or atlases or etc. on your team...

It wouldn't be hard to do and shouldn't affect the speed games are started. In the example given above the matchmaker could have simply swapped 3 or 4 clan mechs with an equivalent weight-class IS mech on the opposing team.

It's more a matter of whether such a thing is desirable, dropping solo I haven't really noticed a case of "most Clan mechs win".

[Appogee]

EyeOne, on 08 July 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Maybe. But that "5%" under lights and mediums might have something to do with it too. Ya think?

Yes, as we told them it would.

The root cause there is that the game rewards higher damaging, and there's not enough role-based rewards for Lights or Mediums. So proportionately more people tend to take Mechs with heavier loadouts that can take.

But these issues are tangential to the OP's question, which I merely answered in a factual way. I didn't think I needed to write a dissertation on the balance and risk/reward issues in MWO, to answer a simple question about matchmaking constraints, QiAff?

[Powder Puff Pew Pew]

Pjwned, on 08 July 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yep, 2 games is enough to claim that clans are OP and absolve you of any blame for playing poorly.

HAHAHAHA I laughed so hard omg...I got tears in my eyes. You just made my day <3

[Appogee]

Heeden, on 08 July 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

In the example given above the matchmaker could have simply swapped 3 or 4 clan mechs with an equivalent weight-class IS mech on the opposing team.

Probably not. He was in the group queue. Who knows whether those 3 or 4 Clan Mechs were all in the same premade or not?

The matchmaker is struggling to deliver matches to the current design of 4x3 and Elo. Adding more variables would just make its task that much harder, and wait times longer.

In any case, I just don't agree that "more Clan Mechs is better". In fact, I think the opposite is more often true.

Edited by Appogee, 08 July 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

My 2 questions for you is...

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

and 2

This is the proof to me that clan mech are way too powerfull then IS mech... I know there suppose to be like that, but like this, it's ridiculous.

The way they launched the so called invasion was a bad joke. It wasnt an invasion at all it was an incorporation because they couldnt get thier act together and have CW finished. I mean really? Clan and IS fighting together? Pfft invasion my a55, like I said a bad joke. As for being OP? I kinda disagree in a way, I think the balance is close just need a few minor tweaks like reduce the range of the er weapons or increase the damage drop-off at long ranges.

Regards

[Joseph Mallan]

LuckJaw, on 08 July 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ok yesterday with a group of 6, we had 2 games in a row that we got like 1 or 2 clan mech on our side, and on the other side, 10 the first time and 9 the second time... Of course we got steam up...

My 2 questions for you is...

Why the hell do they did not balance the group lunch with a maximum of clan mech on each side...

and 2

This is the proof to me that clan mech are way too powerfull then IS mech... I know there suppose to be like that, but like this, it's ridiculous.

I look for matches like yours. I want all Lyrans in IS Mechs facing Clan Omnis, but that just ain't how this game is stacking up, so far.

[Sandpit]

Heeden, on 08 July 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

It wouldn't be hard to do and shouldn't affect the speed games are started. In the example given above the matchmaker could have simply swapped 3 or 4 clan mechs with an equivalent weight-class IS mech on the opposing team.

It's more a matter of whether such a thing is desirable, dropping solo I haven't really noticed a case of "most Clan mechs win".

I never said it would be hard or would affect game speed. I said it was no different that asking PGI to reduce the number of Atlases, or Jenners, or Phracts, etc. simply because you feel they're "op".

That's the point I was making

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 July 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I look for matches like yours. I want all Lyrans in IS Mechs facing Clan Omnis, but that just ain't how this game is stacking up, so far.

I just don't see that happening Joe. Sure they'll have clan players who join an actual clan faction but as far as not having clan mechs on the IS side of things? I don't see it happening.

Player A spends $500 on a gold mech
Player A is an IS faction pilot

Do you really think Player A is going to be ok with being told anything along the lines of "You can't use that $500 mech in battles unless you either, leave your IS faction or use private matches"?

It's just not going to happen. Some seem to think otherwise but realistically I just don't see PGI being able to do that. If they did, I suspect there would be more than a few "refund" threads and actual refunds called for. PGI isn't going to set itself up for that

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 08 July 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

I just don't see that happening Joe. Sure they'll have clan players who join an actual clan faction but as far as not having clan mechs on the IS side of things? I don't see it happening.

Player A spends $500 on a gold mech
Player A is an IS faction pilot

Do you really think Player A is going to be ok with being told anything along the lines of "You can't use that $500 mech in battles unless you either, leave your IS faction or use private matches"?

It's just not going to happen. Some seem to think otherwise but realistically I just don't see PGI being able to do that. If they did, I suspect there would be more than a few "refund" threads and actual refunds called for. PGI isn't going to set itself up for that

Do you think I am concerned about his feelings? Inner Sphere players can use their Omnis in the Open Que, But should leave them home when in Community Warfare.