74 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Mercules, on 01 August 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

I find bukake mechs to be a little to limited. You spend most of the round waiting for you chance to run up and unload into someone's face.

Firstly why the face,that is the direction all their guns face.

Secondly I assume your perspective is based on solo play and not group play.in groups opertunities are made not waited for.

Thirdly if you are solo then I actually do recommend waiting for the mid to end game to run around raising hell with the 4x SRm6 Uller.By that late time in a match most of the enemy should be low on ammo heated up and lacking in armor allowing for some spectacular one shot kills.

Waiting isn't bad if the timing is right.

Edited by Lykaon, 02 August 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[InspectorG]

Lykaon, on 02 August 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Firstly why the face,that is the direction all their guns face.

Secondly I assume your perspective is based on solo play and not group play.in groups opertunities are made not waited for.

Thirdly if you are solo then I actually do recommend waiting for the mid to end game to run around raising hell with the 4x SRm6 Uller.By that late time in a match most of the enemy should be low on ammo heated up and lacking in armor allowing for some spectacular one shot kills.

Waiting isn't bad if the timing is right.

Indeed. Vulturing.
If the timing was right, you werent wasting time.

Stalkers, Dwhales, Atlas...prime pickins when they hang near the back of the huddle to lob LRM or snipe. 2-3 alphas(i break them into 2/2 to avoid ghost heat) all it takes on that soft, thin, rear torso armor. 50-90m about does it. I havent used Atremis yet.

[Angel of Annihilation]

GreyGriffin, on 01 August 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

If any of the Clan mediums could mount ECM, the Kit Fox would be dead weight. It's really a pocket Blackjack with ECM.

Got you beat.

Hellbringer - 65 ton Clan Heavy. Specifically designed to be an electronic warfare mech and unless I am mistaken, all variants are hardwired with ECM. 89.1 Kph with speed tweak and boasts decent hard points though a little lightly armored. This is the mech I am most looking forward to to be honest and I will be definitely purchasing this mech Ala Carte when the reinforcement package comes out.

SaltBeef, on 01 August 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Several of the other invasion mechs were build for speed designated unit Headhunters and fast assault skirmishers.

Firemoth aka Dasher 200xl 162kph with out M.A.S.C. or Speed tweak.
Myst Lynx aka Koshi 175xl 118.8kph with out speed tweak.
Viper aka Dragonfly 320xl 129.6kph with out speed tweak.
Ice Ferret aka Fenris 360xl 129.6kph with out speed tweak
Mad Dog aka Vulture 300xl 86.4 with out speed tweak.
Hellbringer aka Loki 325xl 86.4 with out speed tweak.
Gargoyle aka Man o' War 400xl 86.2kph with out speed tweak.
Executioner aka Gladiator 380xl 65.2kph with out M.A.S.C. or speed tweak.

IS unit should be quaking in their BVD's these mechs are going to role you worse when released even with the restrictions. I can hear the whining already!

Vast majority of these are inferior to what we already have in game.

The Firemoth and Mist Lynx are 20-25 tonners which means Locust like armor.

The Dragonfly is a 40 tonner that devotes most of its available weight to engine and lots and lots of "fixed" JJs. It will have very little firepower.

Mad Dog is totally outclassed by Timber Wolf.

Gargoyle also outclassed by the Timber Wolf. It has less armor and less weapons despite being 5 tons heavier. Only if it has better hit boxes will it be able to compete.

Executioner is really big and really heavy and doesn't mount anywhere near the firepower of a Dire Wolf. Only thing it had going for it was JJs but Class I JJs were nerfed so badly they are useless. What is more is that it is likely that these uselss JJs will be fixed and non-removable further reducing this mechs value.

The only one I left out is the Hellbringer. See my response above.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 02 August 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[SaltBeef]

I disagree

Firemoth is a fast ecm harasser.
Myst lynx a least has some get away speed.
Viper is a faster Nova
Mad dog is a streak srm brawler or guass
Gargoyle is extremely fast for it's size
Executioner is fast for an assault

Speed is the key speed is armor. All of these mechs outclass in speed.

[Khobai]

The problem isnt the uller being locked at 106kph.

The problem is embers, jenners, etc... going 151kph. that NEVER shouldve been allowed. the engine cap is way too high on most IS lights.

Yes lights are struggling in the current meta but that still doesnt make it right for them to go so much faster than their stock counterparts.

Edited by Khobai, 02 August 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 August 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

The problem isnt the uller being locked at 106kph.

The problem is embers, jenners, etc... going 151kph. that NEVER shouldve been allowed. the engine cap is way too high on most IS lights.

[Khobai]

If lights are played 0% now anyway then slowing them down wont make any difference. theyll still be played 0%. but at least theyll be going their canon speeds. instead of completely trashing canon entirely.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 August 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

If lights are played 0% now anyway then slowing them down wont make any difference. theyll still be played 0%. but at least theyll be going their canon speeds. instead of completely trashing canon entirely.

If you want canon, then lights are supposed to be inferior to mediums, which are inferior to heavies, which are inferior to assaults. The lower end classes existed mostly as "training" mechs that you graduated out of, and never used again. Or I guess you might use them if you were a space poor. That's about it, though.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you want canon, then lights are supposed to be inferior to mediums, which are inferior to heavies, which are inferior to assaults.

I dunno about inferior since battletech had BV. If you had equal BV of lights vs an equal BV of assaults it generally favored the light mechs.

Not having a BV system is a huge part of the problem in MWO.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 August 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I dunno about inferior since battletech had BV. If you had equal BV of lights vs an equal BV of assaults it generally favored the light mechs.

Not having a BV system is a huge part of the problem in MWO.

Battletech was a turn-based strategy game where you had the ability to control more than one unit at a time. Using individually weak units wasn't that bad because you could just spam a lot of them. Not to mention, it was also a power-creep sort of game that had an arm's race which escalated after each timeline advancement.

Starcraft is a good analogy here. Zerg is known for spamming a crapload of Zerglings to make up for their individual weakness. But how would you feel if you no longer had the ability to spam Zerglings, and you were only allowed to control ONE Zergling for the entire match, and you were sent against units like Siege Tanks and Carriers? Are you volunteering to be the lone Zergling?

[Ryvucz]

Khobai, on 02 August 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

If lights are played 0% now anyway then slowing them down wont make any difference. theyll still be played 0%. but at least theyll be going their canon speeds. instead of completely trashing canon entirely.

My lights are collecting dust whilst I finally get to play the mech I've been waiting years for, to play again.

[Angel of Annihilation]

SaltBeef, on 02 August 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

I disagree

Firemoth is a fast ecm harasser.
Myst lynx a least has some get away speed.
Viper is a faster Nova
Mad dog is a streak srm brawler or guass
Gargoyle is extremely fast for it's size
Executioner is fast for an assault

Speed is the key speed is armor. All of these mechs outclass in speed.

Ok ECM is always good so the Firemoth has at least that going for it, I will give you that one and the Mist Lynx will have speed for what that is worth. For the rest though, no way.

The Viper is no where near similar to a Nova. It is 40 tons and stuck with 8 fixed JJs. Stock load out gives it about 8 tons for weapons and DHS and it only mounts a max of 6 Energy hard points. Also even if you do boat energy, the max amount of DHS your going to have is 12 and that isn't enough to cool 4 of them, let alone 6 unless maybe your using small lasers. Oh and that 8 tons of weapons and DHS is based on a stock armor value of only 268 armor which isn't much more than a light mech. The only thing it has going for it is that it is fast at 129 kph and even with the JJ never should have excellent Jump capability just because of the sheer number of them it mounts.

The Mad Dog is only 60 tons so very light for a heavy mech. Sure it has alot of missile options but don't forget ghost heat. Also your right it has dual ballistics in its arms but it can only fit the dual guass plus 4 tons of ammo and then only at an armor value of 246 which again is not much more than a light mech. There really is nothing it can do that can't be done better by the Timber Wolf. Also it is likely going to suffer dragon syndrome with that long nose sticking out there for people to shoot off.

The Gargoyle is the same speed as the Timber Wolf, a mech only 5 tons lighter so not that fast for its size, not really. Also to get that speed, it has to mount a 400 XL which really limits what it can mount with weapons. It only mounts something like 21 tons of weapons to a Timber Wolf's 28 tons and its armor is only potentially 5% greater than the Timber Wolf. 21 tons is about the same weapons load out as the Stormcrow which is only a 55 ton mech and you have to consider that the Stormcrow is faster and more agile. Also the Gargoyle's weapons are arm mounted which means it is going to be relatively easy to literally "disarm" the mech.

The Executioner is fast for a 95 ton mech, however it is going to have 8 tons tied up in JJs and trust me, 4 JJs on a 95 ton mech are going to be useless because 5 are useless on a 90 tonner (Heavy Metal). Also again a relatively low tonnage available for weapons, only about 2 tions more than the Gargoyle (23 tons I think). So we have a mech that is only 5 tons lighter than the Dire Wolf but can mount only less than 1/2 the amount of weapons and DHS. Again if the JJs worked like they used to, it would actually be very mobile and be competitive because of this. However if they keep the nerf in place, I can't see the Executioner being anything but DOA.

Also Speed is only good armor on small very fast mechs. On anything the size of a heavy or larger, it isn't hard to aim and hit them no matter what speed they can run.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 02 August 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 02 August 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I dunno about inferior since battletech had BV. If you had equal BV of lights vs an equal BV of assaults it generally favored the light mechs.

Not having a BV system is a huge part of the problem in MWO.

FupDup, on 02 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you want canon, then lights are supposed to be inferior to mediums, which are inferior to heavies, which are inferior to assaults. The lower end classes existed mostly as "training" mechs that you graduated out of, and never used again. Or I guess you might use them if you were a space poor. That's about it, though.

Here is the thing about Battletech. The game was suppose to allow simulated battles between the great houses and later the clans. Part of that simulation was simulation real economical and logistical problems that these military organizations would have if it was real.

Let me elaborate. Just like a regular military unit, there would be a cost to outfitting it. Lets say your Davion and are given a mandate to outfit a unit. Your budget is 100 million C-bills to purchase your mechs.

Now you can buy maybe 12 Assault mechs for that budget but then your only putting a Company into the field.

Or you can opt to spend 12 million on 2 lances of light mechs to provide recon and fast strike capability, maybe 44 million on a 4 lances of medium mechs, another 30 million on 2 lances of heavy mechs and finally 14 million on a lance of Assault mechs.

So by buying lighter, less capable units you go from just a company of 12 mechs fielded to just shy of full battalion with 34 mechs fielded.

Now which unit do you think offers the most tactical flexibility? With a full battalion you can strip off companies to protect multiple locations, you can offer a boarder front, you can gang up on smaller units and strike from multiple angles, etc.

So in the end, cost is the reason why light and medium mechs made up the bulk of battlemech forces, not because they were good mechs or suppose to be able to stand up to a heavy or assault mech.

MWO has no way to simulate that so we end up with a top heavy game.

[Khobai]

Quote

MWO has no way to simulate that so we end up with a top heavy game.

Community warfare could simulate that by giving each player a limited number of deployments in each weight class. If a player uses up all their deployments it could lock players out from using those mechs until their deployments refresh. The refresh speed would be based on how many mech factories your faction owns and your ranking within the faction.

So if you hold a high rank in your faction youd likely never have to worry about not being able to play the weight class you wanted. But if you were a low rank in your faction you might have to pilot lights and mediums more often until your rank increases.

Edited by Khobai, 02 August 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[Mercules]

Lykaon, on 02 August 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Firstly why the face,that is the direction all their guns face.

Secondly I assume your perspective is based on solo play and not group play.in groups opertunities are made not waited for.

Thirdly if you are solo then I actually do recommend waiting for the mid to end game to run around raising hell with the 4x SRm6 Uller.By that late time in a match most of the enemy should be low on ammo heated up and lacking in armor allowing for some spectacular one shot kills.

Waiting isn't bad if the timing is right.

Yeah.... like stated I don't like sitting around waiting for that. Mostly because if I PuG drop into a bad team there is a strong chance that any of the enemy weakened enough to be vulnerable to that many SRMs are not going to be anywhere near me any time soon. Usually when things swing like that the fresher mechs are leading the charge after the reduced team.

I'd rather make a contribution to my team from the start and even if I NEVER fire the PPC I also have ECM on that arm and that can make a huge difference in the match. The SplatFox lacks ECM and so it's ONLY contribution is clean up which is something many other mechs can do just as well if not better.

Edited by Mercules, 03 August 2014 - 03:12 PM.