238 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 09 July 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Wow... Players still think there is some magic mathematical algorithm that can clandestinely influence the outcome of a game.

Game mechanics = unregulated.
Human element = unpredictable.
Elo = unreliable.

End result = Chaos.

So a fair approximation of what combat is like.

[Bishop Steiner]

funny, since is exactly what the PUGs have been asking for, a solo only queue....
https://twitter.com/...252642821718016

and so now you don't have the big bad premades to blame...and you still have landslide losses.


Huh. Go figure.

[Joseph Mallan]

We told 'em. And we told 'em. But they just refused to look in the mirror Bish.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

funny, since is exactly what the PUGs have been asking for, a solo only queue....
https://twitter.com/...252642821718016

and so now you don't have the big bad premades to blame...and you still have landslide losses.


Huh. Go figure.

The stomps one sees in pug only matches take longer than with premades. Sure its still a stomp but the actual fight is much better for the loser. As its only the fight I am interested in not the win/loss its perfect to lose then. Slaughter by group is just no fun for a pug. Most often you cant even figure out what happened and cant tell what mistakes if any you made. In pug matches you pretty much know when you made a total stupid move.

[Caviel]

Lykaon, on 10 July 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I know that there are some players who will firmly disagree with me when I say every player of MWo should find a player run unit to join right from the get go.Step One should be find a unit.The benefits received by having access to experienced players and training are HUGE.

For those still reading this thread, if you:

-Really wish there was integrated VoIP instead of the C3 integration so you can talk regularly
-Are frustrated that your team still manages to lose even when you have a great match
-Get tired of the solo queue's poor or missing tactics
-Feel held back by your solo queue teammates

...join a merc group or clan! These are the types of benefits you get when you start playing with others regularly. If people want to join the solo queue that's all fine and good, just don't expect much team coordination.

[MischiefSC]

Can almost always predict a stomp in the first 30 sec. They are an anomoly now though. Needs a full field of pansies on one side and mma face-punchers on the other.

Again - play aggro. If you are in the back, even if youre a sniper or lrm boat, youre not pulling full weight.

Being off alone or in the back makes you a burden. You are an inspiteof, not a becauseof.

Yes yes, excuses, exceptions, justification, not your fault, bs, cry, etc.

Show up. Pull, carry, help lead. Wreck f**king face and shatter dreams. If that aint you, well, youre a burden. Expect to lose and your whining to be ignored.

[KingCobra]

I'm finding overall the solo/pug/casual games are much better without the premade groups. Playing time has increased for all pug players which means they have the time now to learn valuable skills. And soon they will outgrow the solo queues and join the group MM queues if the premade groups will recruit and be considerate of the newer players in general learn some patience with there lower skills when they arrive in the group MM queues.

Thanks Russ thanks Brian you have made a wonderful decision with the matchmaker and I hope it gives you and your staff more time to work on the group MM queues and CW.

[Bigbacon]

they seem much better now that the MM was updated. still stomps every now and then but there have been A LOT more much closer and fun matches.

[Roland]

If you lose all your games it means you are garbage.

[KingCobra]

To the pgi staff and devs

[Mawai]

MischiefSC, on 09 July 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

The team that plays most aggressively is pretty much guaranteed to win. When I see my team start shuffling towards a good hiding/sniping spot out of the game I know it's pretty much already over, best I can do is hope to get a kill or two before my team gets destroyed by the other team.

Pug games are now decided by balls. If your team has them and moves together to go find and destroy the other team, they're all but guaranteed to win. If your team mills around or does that shuffle to see who can be in the back, you're doomed. It's that simple.

Not always ... at least in my experience ... though momentum can sometimes be an advantage.

Aggressiveness works when

1) You have most of your team with you in a group
2) You are running down fewer opponents

However, I have often seen the aggressive team lose when they get strung out (which almost always happens) and the lead elements run into the mass of the opposition and get shot down one by one going through a choke point.

I don't think it is aggressiveness that wins ... it is the teamwork that wins matches. Sometimes that looks like "aggressiveness" since they are moving as a group ... but if they can't know when to stop, fallback and circle when running into opposition ... they lose.

I played an interesting match on Crimson where the other team was quite aggressive and reasonably coordinated. My team started on the parking garage side ... the other team swung around the mountain end and pressured us through the pass toward their base ... a couple of our mechs slowed them down a bit at the pass and fell back while the rest capped. A selection of them ran back one by one and died ... they lost. Losses were about even at 3 or so on each side before we fell back to cap their base ... but it was the best strategy at that point. Solo PUG match too

So ... in my opinion, aggressiveness doesn't win ... teamwork does.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 10 July 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

If you lose all your games it means you are garbage.

Actually it means you are statistical anomaly! I played 50 games in Trial Mechs, lost 25, died 49 times. It is not probable to lose that often. Even when you are trying to!

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

funny, since is exactly what the PUGs have been asking for, a solo only queue....
https://twitter.com/...252642821718016

and so now you don't have the big bad premades to blame...and you still have landslide losses.


Huh. Go figure.

Got to say, Bishop, I've had some excellent games and far fewer rolls when pugging in the last few days. IMHO, in my time zone and Elo bracket things are quite good in pug land.

[greytiger]

As a player who has taken to playing again more regularly then I did over the last year, I have to say that the new match making stuff is better.

I won't say all of my matches are good, I won't say they're all bad. I've been in matches where teamwork is evident right off the bat, and folks fall into the roles that work best with others. These usually end up in stomps - either the other team or our own.

I've also been in matches, more often then not, where it comes really down to the wire - closer to evenly matches then most matches that came before the matchmaker rebuild.

That's for solo drops.

For my team drops (I tend to drop in a team of 3-5, depending on who of my unit is around), close matches tend to be more frequent. A lot of that is communication between my team (we run a skype chat when working together).

I strongly suspect that if there was some kind of in game chat that you'd find more evenly matched games - in some ways, this points to how well balanced most aspects of the game are (And yes, I pilot clan, but I also pilot IS), when skill and communication tend to be winning more and more.

Are there still improvements to be made? Yes. There are elements of clan tech that probably need looked at. Likewise IS tech. Likewise match making. Will it ever be perfectly balanced? Doubtful. Simply put, there will be always something that's just a little more handy then something else in a given situation or map.

I find I have more success when I work with the folks I'm with - sticking to the defined role of my mech, and using it to the best of my ability to support my team - weather or not I can communicate with them. I am, at best, an average pilot, mind, but I do try my best to be there for my team.

Unless I get cut off, which has happened several times recently. Last game I played my team was caught in a pincer movement - I was separated and was unable to offer my support to my team. We lost, because, plain and simple, the enemy had better teamwork and knew how to use it.

Anyway. TTFN

--GT

[Bishop Steiner]

RocketDog, on 10 July 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Got to say, Bishop, I've had some excellent games and far fewer rolls when pugging in the last few days. IMHO, in my time zone and Elo bracket things are quite good in pug land.

and you aren't QQing and strawmanning the reasons, either. I still some the occasional roll when I pug. But like Mischief said, I tend to know withing a minute, tops, by the "body language" of my team. Milling about and timid, I figure, it's going to be a painful match.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mawai, on 10 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Not always ... at least in my experience ... though momentum can sometimes be an advantage.

Aggressiveness works when

1) You have most of your team with you in a group
2) You are running down fewer opponents

However, I have often seen the aggressive team lose when they get strung out (which almost always happens) and the lead elements run into the mass of the opposition and get shot down one by one going through a choke point.

I don't think it is aggressiveness that wins ... it is the teamwork that wins matches. Sometimes that looks like "aggressiveness" since they are moving as a group ... but if they can't know when to stop, fallback and circle when running into opposition ... they lose.

I played an interesting match on Crimson where the other team was quite aggressive and reasonably coordinated. My team started on the parking garage side ... the other team swung around the mountain end and pressured us through the pass toward their base ... a couple of our mechs slowed them down a bit at the pass and fell back while the rest capped. A selection of them ran back one by one and died ... they lost. Losses were about even at 3 or so on each side before we fell back to cap their base ... but it was the best strategy at that point. Solo PUG match too

So ... in my opinion, aggressiveness doesn't win ... teamwork does.

a team turtling together, indeed does tend to die together.

I find the first team to take the initiative in an even semi coordinated manner, wins, most of the time. The team that sits around "waiting for what we are about to receive..:" usually gets just that.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

We told 'em. And we told 'em. But they just refused to look in the mirror Bish.

I told them too, and now all of the group players have left me behind with them.

[MischiefSC]

Aggressive doesnt mean suicidal. it means pushing. Jockying for a good place to shoot, not a good place to hide. It means always moving to engage, not waiting for someone else to.

Sometimes both teams play aggressive. Anecdotal one-off doesnt change what wins in pug queue. Teamwork is great but inconsistent.

You can show up to wreck face, crush dreams, carry, help lead every match.

[spectralthundr]

tucsonspeed6, on 09 July 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Just got out of a pug match that ended 9-12. Your experience does not represent the rest of the community.

Same I just got out of one that ended in a 12-11 win barely. Fun stuff.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

and you aren't QQing and strawmanning the reasons, either. I still some the occasional roll when I pug. But like Mischief said, I tend to know withing a minute, tops, by the "body language" of my team. Milling about and timid, I figure, it's going to be a painful match.

Yeah, the single biggest indicator that things are not going to end well is a lack of determined activity in the first few minutes. I usually try to prod things along with a simple suggestion (e.g., in Crimson Straight conquest, "Get kappa then push over the saddle to Gamma - don't get stalled on the upper deck" etc.). It's often better to make an energetic stab at even a mediocre plan like that than to mill around and become purely reactive. That way the team volunteers to take the role of fish in a barrel.

Basically, MischiefSC is right