152 replies to this topic

[JohnnyWayne]

Hi guys,

I just tried to show this game to a new player. We dropped twice in a 3 man group.

First I and my usual tag team partner tried to play as lights, we don't drop as lights and have standard elo with them, so we thought it would be fine.

We landed in a 9 man premade against a 12 man premade and were crushed.

After that we could convince her to do one more drop.

So we did, and ended up in group queue again. Against a 12 man premade of jade falcons. Guess what? Crushed.

I won't hide that I loudly anounced my despise of this system in general.

This matchmaker just drove a new player from this game. These 24 players drove her away. I asked the last team how they felt confronting them with this information. All they did was flame me that I'd use some PPC / AC timber and I should shut up and something about my mother.

I was running a marauder loadout.

Now please would someone explain me why these ******* (I mean they have no clue about BT, competetive meta whores that is, otherwise they would have recognized my mech) are allowed to have fun in this game on my cost and even worse, hinder the game on growing by driving new players away.

I was never a fan of premades in solo queues, but this is even more ****** up than anything before. I play solo 75% of the time, the rest 2s. God I hate all these stomping idiots that created 4 mans to stomp pugs. But these are now 12 man groups that do still the same on a larger scale.

I don't know what PGI has thought when they did "this", my guess is nothing.

All I feel right now is hatred flowing through me and I'm about to join the dark side. They have cookies after all n stuff....

P.S.: We already did some 1on1 s before we dropped to show her around, but that is nothing. And yes it has had to be a new thread, this is some serious issue and I don't want it to drown in the regular QQ.

[Vassago Rain]

Welcome to the inner sphere.

[Felbombling]

Get her to play a few games in the solo queue with you sitting over her shoulder as a back seat driver. That would be an ideal training situation, as far as I'm concerned.

[Flyby215]

Stories like this make me sad, and I suspect more of them will pop up in the near future.

Under the previous matchmaker (max group of 4) there were mass complaints that players were being driven away by the lack of ability to create larger groups in the public queue. I tend to suspect these mass complaints were actually coming from those who wish to PUG-stomp and stat-pad and otherwise parade their ego around but were having difficulty doing so when they were limited to only 4 teammates in teamspeak.

Now, with larger groups now allowed, the community is likely to become split once again. Those who are happy to see larger group allowances form two categories: the try-hards that can now make 10-12 mans and easily stomp all who stand in their way (I watched a HoL stream go 50+ wins to 0 losses) and those regular players who want to play with 5-7 friends against PUGs and other 5-7 groups but instead find themselves against the 12 man try-hards.

Of those who asked for larger groups, some are reaping the benefits of their new ability to work together, others are facing the true horrors of matchmaker.

I think the real losers here are those who want to make small groups with RL friends such as the OP. These smallers groups end up in the group-queue, where the try-hards and massive teamspeak groups reside. On a positive note, at least groups made up of less than 4 will occasionally end up in the PUG queue. I would hope that perhaps MM can be designed to switch between group and PUG queues if an individual small group is struggling to have a good match, and favour the PUG groupings rather than constantly filling out the group queues.

Recently I've been turning down many group-invites from people on my friends list. I think the MM change has been a radical change in favour of solo dropping. It's been a long long time since I've had so much fun in the solo queue. If PGI's research is correct, and 84% of the population wants to solo, then perhaps this matchmaker change is ultimately for the greater good.

Edited by Flyby215, 05 July 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[KinsonRavenlock]

I'm impressed, I myself have played about 200 games in the group queue since the patch and have run up against a 12 man less than 10 times....
Amazing that a brand new player runs into 2, 12 man groups back to back in their first ever games ......

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Apparently yesterday all small groups were dropping exclusively in the group queue. After the server went down overnight they enabled small groups in the solo queue, which was supposed to be how it was going to work anyway.

I'd suggest trying again a few more times. You should find yourself at least a couple of games in the solo queue, which will have better odds of being forgiving for her.

[JohnnyWayne]

KinsonRavenlock, on 05 July 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'm impressed, I myself have played about 200 games in the group queue since the patch and have run up against a 12 man less than 10 times....
Amazing that a brand new player runs into 2, 12 man groups back to back in their first ever games ......

Guess how stupid I looked... We are dropping 2s right now and havn't met any 12s. We won both games we did. Obviously average elo is to high for us *lol*.

We will try what staggercheck suggested, when she has recovered ^^. Still... This is wrong.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 05 July 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[Yokaiko]

People are blaming losses on premades in the solo queue now

[JohnnyWayne]

You mean like we have lost because our premade sucked? Or stupid premadews over there go and die?

Btw, I also have good matches in the group queue. But not the fun time I have when I drop solo.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 05 July 2014 - 01:24 PM.

[Yokaiko]

JohnnyWayne, on 05 July 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

You mean like we have lost because our premade sucked? Or stupid premadews over there go and die?

Btw, I also have good matches in the group queue. But not the fun time I have when I drop solo.

No I mean they said we were a premade in the SOLO queue, there shouldn't BE any premades.

[Dracol]

Yokaiko, on 05 July 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

No I mean they said we were a premade in the SOLO queue, there shouldn't BE any premades.

No 12man premades in solo queue... but up to 4man premades are allowed.

[Belorion]

@ OP... What is your better idea for letting groups drop? The game has had a higher population than its had in quite some time. Whats worse, the occasional alienated newb, or the disinfranchised veteren?

The game is suddenly the most fun it has been in a long time.

[Sandpit]

Flyby215, on 05 July 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Under the previous matchmaker (max group of 4) there were mass complaints that players were being driven away by the lack of ability to create larger groups in the public queue. I tend to suspect these mass complaints were actually coming from those who wish to PUG-stomp and stat-pad and otherwise parade their ego around but were having difficulty doing so when they were limited to only 4 teammates in teamspeak.

just stop

That's no different than me saying "I suspect pugs just want to screw up and lose the game for my group"

snide little blanket statements like that are simply wrong. Take your "all groups are pugstomping evildoers" rhetoric elsewhere. I don't appreciate being referred to like that and it's a flat out lie and falsehood.

[Sandpit]

jesus, they give groups a separate queue from solos and there's STILL people QQing about the premade boogeyman. smh

[spectralthundr]

Sandpit, on 05 July 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

jesus, they give groups a separate queue from solos and there's STILL people QQing about the premade boogeyman. smh

Especially when the premade boogeyman aren't even that good half the time. Though at least the Mariks are consistent, terrible in the 3025 beta, still terrible in MWO.

[Sandpit]

spectralthundr, on 05 July 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Especially when the premade boogeyman aren't even that good half the time. Though at least the Mariks are consistent, terrible in the 3025 beta, still terrible in MWO.

says the guy who showed 3 screenshots of which 2 had Mariks winning.....

[Flyby215]

Sandpit, on 05 July 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

just stop

That's no different than me saying "I suspect pugs just want to screw up and lose the game for my group"

snide little blanket statements like that are simply wrong. Take your "all groups are pugstomping evildoers" rhetoric elsewhere. I don't appreciate being referred to like that and it's a flat out lie and falsehood.

That's why I used the phrasing "I tend to suspect". I didn't mean to put everyone under a blanket statement. It's just that sometimes I am reading the forums and people defending jumpsnipers are meta jumpsnipers every game I see them, those asking for larger groups are sometimes in 12-mans and/or comp teams (for example).

Similar to 3rd person view and the LRM speed increase; the larger groups is probably not as big a problem as some have made it out to be. However, there will still be some of us seeing the extreme ends of it; i.e. new players being slotted against 12-man comps.

I'm merely making observations, I'm sorry to have offended you by that.

[MonkeyCheese]

Wow thats some bad luck.

Best thing to do would be to take new people in with a larger group who can set up some private match training and then drop as a larger group.

[Sandpit]

Flyby215, on 05 July 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

That's why I used the phrasing "I tend to suspect". I didn't mean to put everyone under a blanket statement. It's just that sometimes I am reading the forums and people defending jumpsnipers are meta jumpsnipers every game I see them, those asking for larger groups are sometimes in 12-mans and/or comp teams (for example).

Similar to 3rd person view and the LRM speed increase; the larger groups is probably not as big a problem as some have made it out to be. However, there will still be some of us seeing the extreme ends of it; i.e. new players being slotted against 12-man comps.

I'm merely making observations, I'm sorry to have offended you by that.

I defend poptarting. I don't use it, it's not how I play, but it's a valid tactic in my eyes. I defend lots of ideas and stuff on here that I don't particularly care for.

You have to understand that organized groups are roughly 1% of the player population. That's it. Those are typically your ggclose players. You have just as many dbags as solo players as you do groups. There's a separate queue for solo players so they don't have to contend with that.

If you're going to drop in the group queue you have to be prepared to face "better" competition more regularly. 2 6mans should not be at a huge disadvantage against a 12man, nor should teams comprised of 9-3, 10-2, 4-8, 4-4-4, etc. You still have to play as a team even if the entire team isn't comprised of YOUR individual group.

I'm not trying to be a dbag but after nearly 2 years of listening to everyone complain about how groups were "ruining the game for pugs (which pug by definition isn't a solo player, it's a pick up group)" those who want to play in groups finally have their own queue and don't ever have to listen about solo players complain about groups again. (I'm interested to see what scapegoat and boogeymen they create next personally because bad player = bad player regardless of group or solo)

Same applies for groups. I don't have to worry about 2/3 of my team being joe derp now and "ruining group games" for me. If you're in a small(ish) group there's private matches and the solo queue. 2-4 mans will also drop in the solo queue which will help.

I just don't appreciate (and have put up with being accused of that for 2 years now) being called a pugstomper. That's not what me and my unit are about. We just very simply want to play with our buddies and have fun like everyone else. Sometimes we stomp, sometimes we get stomped, others we have a close game.

We don't care who we're playing against, we care that we're playing TOGETHER. That's it.

[Dracol]

OP, hopefully your friend gives it another go.

The crux of the matter is MW:O is PvP all the time. With no AI bots to train up against, from the get go, all new players are pitted against other humans.

Even if all new players were put into the perfect games where everyone else had the same number of prior drops (ie. all are on their first match ever) One side would have to lose.

Also, some players would be better due to personal experience in general. Maybe they played a lot of FPS games, or maybe tactical sims, Some players would be worse then others. Maybe cause their system can only run the game at 15 FPS, or maybe they just came from a 2 year stint playing Sims. Ability to play a game goes beyond the number of hours spent playing it.

I can imagine this is a tough game to get into for new players, and the current lack of new player help only aggravates the situation.

But, as in any other PvP only game, the people who try it out and find out they like the concept spend some time getting to know how to improve. Which includes looking at a lose to understand what they could have done differently.