93 replies to this topic

[Voivode]

Yep. PGI has certainly made a lot of rookie mistakes. They're learning (slowly) so there is hope for the game (funny to say after playing it for two years, I mean really, how many games have I bought and played for like 3 months that were way more polished than this one?), so I think I'll just pull up a chair, grab a beer, and shoot some mechs for a while longer.

[ArmandTulsen]

TLBFestus, on 11 July 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

What are you talking about? It's standard practice in PGI la-la land to put up roofs, landscaping, and string electrical and plumbing before you build the foundation.

But in reality they had to make some cash before they could roll out CW "in 90 days". Unfortunately for us they discovered that they could achieve their goal (which is "make money as easily as possible) without even doing any of the stuff they initially drew us Founders in with.

Welcome to the island of "not the target audience".

Development costs money, I get that. But you'd think that as some point somebody would go, "alright, we've got enough to work with here, let's get down to brass tacks on CW."

I'll be the first to admit that I know **** all about software, its development, or the business side of software development. However, I do know that devoting resources to CW early on would, not only have been a smart gamble that would have paid dividends later, it wouldn't have financially crippled the developer to the point where we wouldn't have much of a game at all like some people seem to be suggesting with "4 mechs and 3 maps".

They had enough content to serve as a stable and consistent revenue stream (they definitely do now), but I suppose it's like Yukichi said earlier in the thread, it's short sightedness. "But will this make any money?" Directly, not likely. Indirectly, however... I guess that's what they mean by "vision" when people do things that don't seem to have an immediate payoff, but have a greater impact that few could anticipate.

Bryan Ekman, on 11 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'll make one short comment. We developed the core mechanics first - Mech Warfare, which is everything to do with making the in-game match experience fun.

• Game Rules (BT/Weapons/Movement/etc etc)
  
• Game Modes
  
• MechLab (mech construction rules)
  
• 12v12
  
• Matchmaking
  
• Host State Rewind
  
• Networking Architecture
  
• A host of bug fixes/balancing/engine upgrades and optimizations to make the game playable on a wide variety of systems from pretty much anywhere in the world
  
• And plenty more...

I won't make excuses why CW took this long, there too many reasons. I'm sincerely sorry it's been delayed this long, and one day soon we will have an opportunity to give you deeper insight.



That being said... DEVLOG 6 will have some new information about CW's latest phase, one that people will be really excited about. I have also updated The Plan - www.mwomercs.com/theplan - with some new info and the latest map data.

Thanks for commenting. We can only wish that CW turns out to be everything we hoped for, and then some. Please do it right. We're counting on you guys.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 11 July 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

ArmandTulsen, on 11 July 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

CW is supposed to be the foundation of the game, much like a building structure has foundations made and placed before anything else is built. That would have given rhyme and reason to all of these drops, and it would have given playing some purpose. It wouldn't have the Call of Duty team deathmatch + grind feel. Planetary control battles, with hundreds of maps. THAT would have been something great.

PGI should have built the infrastructure of the game first - CW - then added regular content. That would have bolstered the game and increased long-term potential revenue.

I know for a fact that I would have went from pure F2P to buying stuff.

Who's with me on this? Who thinks adding CW LAST hurts the game more than it helps it? Who thinks CW shouldn't be added first?

It should not have been last, BUT it should not have been first either. Second... Sure. See we HAVE to have the big Stompy robots first. After that we need environments to battle those big stompy robots. So third. Factions and planets and Real objectives.

[ArmandTulsen]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

It should not have been last, BUT it should not have been first either. Second... Sure. See we HAVE to have the big Stompy robots first. After that we need environments to battle those big stompy robots. So third. Factions and planets and Real objectives.

Okay, maybe "first" was too extreme. You know what I meant, though. Added before all the bells and whistles and monthly mech introductions.

[TLBFestus]

Bryan Ekman, on 11 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

I won't make excuses why CW took this long, there too many reasons. I'm sincerely sorry it's been delayed this long, and one day soon we will have an opportunity to give you deeper insight.

Simply put, BIG PROPS to you Mr. Ekman for posting that little tidbit I quoted.

That is the first time I have seen any sort of apology from someone at PGI that I actually believe and feel it's genuine, unlike some other persons half-baked non-apologies for insulting many of use founders (Yeah, we all know to whom I refer). Honestly, that little apology does mean something, and I appreciate it. Simple and genuine.

That doesn't mean I've forgotten other "sins" and I'm now fully on the bandwagon, I'm not, but for once after 18 months it's good to finally hear a real apology!

Get your web admin to give you +10 likes from me, would you?

[cSand]

Bobzilla, on 11 July 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

Mech combat is the foundation of the game, not CW.
No mech combat, no CW.

This


why is everyone on here so obsessed with the past?

nobody knows...

[Joseph Mallan]

cSand, on 11 July 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

This


why is everyone on here so obsessed with the past?

nobody knows...

If you remember the past you should be able to avoid the same mistakes.

[Cest7]

Monetization before content is no bueno.

[Alex Morgaine]

Karamarka, on 11 July 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

MW4: Vengeance had awesome desert maps, and also LRM's required Line of Sight which meant their wasn't stupid rock formations and "arena" styled maps we have right now.

Seriously, if you built a stadium with seats around every map (except alpine) it would actually suit the maps and not look out of place - it's like we are in a paintball arena.

Actually if they ever turn out current maps/modes into a Solaris style system that would be perfect.

[Wingbreaker]

Let's take a serious look at three games that put their 'competitive' modules in before their systems were robust enough and ready for deployment:

Global Agenda
SW:TOR
Age of Conan

And when I say "systems" I mean the games in general. These three really stand out in my mind because in each case their developments hadn't gotten far enough along when they pushed their 'competitive' PVP systems to keep things balanced and interesting.

TOR was a *********** due to the fact that you could trade ownership openly between factions, and there were no real repercussions.

AOC's balance simply wasn't ready by the time keeps were implemented (lol, guardian bug), and with their failure a sizable chunk of the first-three-months crowd peeled from the servers. Granted, they had already easily funded the game through box sales, but I'd hardly call the implementation successful.

Global Agenda's problems were myriad. From a system that originally didn't have scheduling (lol, americans win always) to incredibly imbalanced high level gameplay (lol, vindis) and again no ramifications for metagame trading, it was...well, bad. F'n Hirez.

So: No, CW shouldn't have been first. Develop your game, stabilize it, and balance it. THEN and only then do you release a module that relies on a robust system.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 11 July 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Mystere]

CaptainDeez, on 11 July 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Mechs don't really require that much money to make, make a 3d mesh, copy and paste the code you're using for the mechs you made before.

Gee, if you were a software developer, I would really like to know who you worked for, because there is no way in hell I would hire you guys if you thought "copy and paste" was good practice. In fact, we had a few guys who did just that and I had them all fired.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Bryan Ekman, on 11 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

(awesome post on page 3)

While I really would have preferred for community warfare to be live and in full chaotic swing for the Inner Sphere factions before the clan 'mechs were announced (much less for sale), I do understand and look forward to everything that seems to be coming soom^TM!

[DAYLEET]

OP You are saying that before they do everything they should have done CW which includes everything, like hundreads of maps. How does that even work? without a kickstarter(cash) like starcitisen and 6 years of closed development.

Alternatively you can wait 6years while i test it.

Edited by DAYLEET, 11 July 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Karamarka]

DAYLEET, on 11 July 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

OP You are saying that before they do everything they should have done CW which includes everything, like hundreads of maps. How does that even work? without a kickstarter(cash) like starcitisen and 6 years of closed development.

Alternatively you can wait 6years while i test it.

100's of maps? If anything they'd have only enough planet types to accomodate the maps or a very small number. They saw fit that 6 was a good number without CW anyway lol

Edited by Karamarka, 12 July 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 11 July 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

While I really would have preferred for community warfare to be live and in full chaotic swing for the Inner Sphere factions before the clan 'mechs were announced (much less for sale)

I have a hunch that this wasn't PGI's decision.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Rebas Kradd, on 12 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I have a hunch that this wasn't PGI's decision.

I'm pretty sure you're right, but it doesn't change my opinion.

[Tarl Cabot]

As I noted in another thread and what many have posted here, is that PGI started off with the intention of making another MW game without all the necessary back end of an actual MPBT online only game. They did not have the finances to bake the code for both the combat engine and database for the back end of the game.

Also, looking at it from the resource side, creating temporary lobbies and/or actively supporting VOIP that they were liable for would have drained much needed funds from the core of the combat engine. I understand it but it does not mean I agree those decisions, it has been frustrating.

Even though hindsight is 20/20, one does wonder with what they know now, what would PGI had done differently. We could speculate about it all year and fill up reams, but the game is where it is at. The real questions relate to the details for CW, be it general IS vs Clan, specific House vs specific Clan pug-type queues, etc. Will they make it flexible enough that it can be adjusted based on population levels during a day?

[TB Freelancer]

Bobzilla, on 11 July 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

Mech combat is the foundation of the game, not CW.
No mech combat, no CW.

Around here we've got guys who couldn't write the classic "Hello World!" program to save their life talking about how the game should have been developed and what order things should have been worked on. Had they said nothing on the subject, I'd have only guessed at what they were....

...now that they've said their piece on the subject. There's absolutely no doubt.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I believe that This game just hit a restart. After that dev vlog, and more specifically after the Clans were released. We just went back into time, where we though/knew that CW was coming very soon. Although I always knew they were working to get there. I honestly have that same feeling I had before the October launch. That good feeling and now I feel like it is warranted.

[Cion]

Personally, I believe development should have followed this route
1- basic battles
2- private lobbies
3- association
4- community warfare
5- formal competitive play (leaderboards, official tournaments and such)
6- Clan INVASION (clan mechs + community warfare component)

But hey, we got a Mechwarrior game, we didn't have one for a decade. I'm relatively happy (yes delayed and all) with how things are. It's a fun game and the PGI seems commited to keep going. They look like they are in for the long haul. (No, I'm no PGI lover, I just post my opinion)

Edited by Cion, 12 July 2014 - 09:11 PM.