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Dev Vlog #6


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#281 East Indy

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:20 AM

The module design needs some rethinking.

Weapon modules, being kiss/curse, are not something players often want on their 'Mech, let alone in threes. Considering player concerns about strikes, two consumables seem generous.

'Mechs modules as presented not only don't address issues of value (e.g., why would I ever equip Gyros over Seismic?) but greatly limit the most interesting customization modules offer.

I was expecting a weighted system or similar means for players to equip less-popular modules without feeling they'd wasted a slot -- otherwise, what we have now is better. Like I said, this needs work.

Edited by East Indy, 14 July 2014 - 09:21 AM.


#282 Kitty Bacon

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:22 AM

View Postmechbane, on 14 July 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

LRM's at short range so whats the point of SRM's? 2 x LRM boats raining on you from a distance is bad enough now its going to be screen shake city face to face, air strikes and LRM boats for the next 6 months don't sound like fun to me. skill has nothing to do with it and neither does "team play" its just a silly idea


but at close range those Clan LRM boats will be doing anywhere from 25% less damage to 0% damage so I don't see the problem. SRMs will still do a lot of damage close up where as LRMs will be doing less than half a single point of damage per missile. Long as you can get within that 180m range, Clan LRMs will still be nearly ineffective to SRMs at that range. But I know I am not going to win this. I will keep piloting my ECM Kit Fox because I know nothing about how Clan LRMs work from piloting a mech with 3 AMS and 4 tons of ammo. :D

#283 Silme

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:43 AM

I'll feel like an idiot if I missed it somewhere in the pile, but here's a transcript for the video if someone cares to attach it to the original post. Transcript is my personal work, as are all errors, etc. included below. If you spot something, let me know and I'll see if I can clean it up.

Spoiler

Edited by Silme, 14 July 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#284 Kraven Kor

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:54 AM

This had better not mean I can't equip Enhanced Zoom, Sensor Range, and Target Info all at once on my Ilya, or I'm going to be pissed.

#285 Sandtiger

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:22 AM

I am not sure about the jump jet heat. It seems to me to punish people who pop tart. Which to me, is not a bad thing. No I don't EVER use pop tarting just because I don't like jump jets. But it remains the same. STOP PUNISHING PLAYERS FOR BEING GOOD PILOTS PLEASE!!!!!! If you wanted to balance it out, you could incorporate death from above =] You might heat up because you are jumping, but when all your weapons are destroyed you could still jump on the enemy, and be beneficial ~grins.

Also, Community Warfare HURRAY!!!!!! It won't come soon enough!!

As for the module slots EPIC FAIL! You are going to reduce us to using weapons modules that suck? NO! NO! NO! I should be able to choose which modules I put on MY Mech. You know, the one I paid REAL money for. The one I worked hours on to build up the way I like it. Such as advanced vision, advanced sensor range, and adv target decay, with an air strike for good measure.
This seem to me to be a money grab. You can now buy two consumables, but you don't get to run with what you want? *Did your momma say life was like a box of chocolates?*

If you truly want to support customization capabilities so that players can make their mechs for role specific warfare. Then let US choose what module slots we can put wherever we want. The increased number would be beneficial, and make us happy players. Happy Players = paying customers. Non happy players = us finding another game. One that isn't so crapped out with people who like the idea of balance because it makes it easier for them to win. I like PROVING MY SKILL. And at every turn you make it harder for me to do so. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR.........

I really wish I hadn't bought that clan package now. Not another penny, not one red cent!

Edited by Sandtiger, 14 July 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#286 Reno Blade

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:23 AM

All very good points and we already got 15 pages of good and concerned feedback here.

1. Weapon modules are currently only at lvl 2 (Rank 1) of max 10 (Rank 5). This is for endgame.
2. Make different amounts of different slot types = Role warfare
3. Make multiple modules for the same weapon.
4. It might be a good thing to have multiple weapon module slots:
- If you are able to equip more modules for the same weapons = better boating
- If you are NOT = better for mixed loadouts

#287 Sandtiger

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:30 AM

View PostTheGreyWolfe, on 14 July 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'd comment as well that; as proposed, this is a real Nerfing of the existing module system and Mech capabilities.

There's really no other way to look at it.

I run 2 mastered lights; one is Jenner 7-K that runs with 1 weapon module & 3 mech modules. Under the new system - I'd be able to get another weapon module (since I run 4MLs doesn't really do much) and lose two of my mech modules. The other light I run has 4 mech modules (3/4 which are just for defense) - now proposed to force it down to using only one of those at a time - making it even more of a target and less capable as a scout.

There's already been a massive defection of people from playing lights, and this will - no doubt - continue.
This change, unfortunately, will only make it worse, as there gets less reasons to play a light after they have been neutered of their defense capabilities that could be achieved through modules. Given that most lights can be taken down by one alpha by any heavy+ mech - making them easier to kill isn't the best solution.

In addition, this takes away from existing players what already has been earned through play time, and cheapens the value of the modules and the C-Bills spent on them.

Please re-consider making only one mech module available per mech - please leave it to at least 2-3 for lights; and allow the master slot to be any type of module.

Thanks.

B-A-L-A-N-C-E Balance! I've been saying it all along. Punish us for being good pilots so mediocre players can keep up. People thought it was hilarious when assaults were getting the short end of the stick (no I am not laughing) Just chiming in to say we need to toss Balance right out the window! This is a skill based game...well, at least whats left of it, and for the moment. Good luck little brother. I hope you get what you are asking for, because it truly does suck when the nerf dev eye falls on you. =[

Edited by Sandtiger, 14 July 2014 - 10:31 AM.


#288 Sandpit

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:40 AM

just curious as to why this isn't listed with the other vlogs?

#289 mooky

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:40 PM

I like most applaud almost everything in this VLOG.

I like the modules being broken into three categories, and even agree with the categories. I just am slightly concerned with the distribution of number of module slots PER category. (perhaps too many for some? Though the exact numbers of each aren't 100% known per mech chasis at the moment).

I also think that perhaps the "master module" slot should be an “omni” slot, able to hold any of the three category types.

Please don't be afraid to alter the module implementation if it ends up not quite working as intended. The only thing worse than a mistake, is not admitting to it and rectifying it, and you've come so far so recently PGI.

Also, I hope "mech factory" is vast, with a few big multi-level warehouses/assembly areas, with less small outbuildings, and possibly even more urban with constrained streets that funnel and trap mechs, but still provide adequate cover from LRM's as well as good vantage points for reconnaissance.

What'd I think lots of us would like is a true "NYC" style urban settings, with major road arteries (passable by all mechs), and secondary roads (heavy, medium, light), small side streets (medium, light) and alleyways (only light) creating a truly unique game feel.

Keep up the good work and communication!

Edited by mooky, 14 July 2014 - 12:43 PM.


#290 Jody Von Jedi

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:41 PM

View PostKraven Kor, on 14 July 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

This had better not mean I can't equip Enhanced Zoom, Sensor Range, and Target Info all at once on my Ilya, or I'm going to be pissed.


Prepare to be pissed. LOL! I'll be right there with you. Sensor Range, Seismic Sensor and Enhanced Gyro in my case.

#291 dangerzone

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:50 PM

Go check out http://mwomercs.com/theplan to check our progress on both maps.

#292 Cimarb

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:26 PM

View PostBLOOD WOLF, on 14 July 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

yelling about module slot's now. What is next?

I didn't even use the damn things and I still got over 1000 damage matches, I still average a few kills a game. I still preform as well as I could.

It is hard to understand why someone is concerned about something that you never use yourself, but there are some very valid issues with the new system, even if you do not use them yourself.

Consider that EVERY mech will be able to use arty AND air, every match, without sacrificing their other modules. There honestly is no reason NOT to equip both when this happens. That means you will have 24 arty and air, from each side, regularly. Horrible user experience, for both new and old, but especially for new players, who are going to be bombarded constantly every match because they have not learned how to avoid them yet.

#293 Reno Blade

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:41 PM

View PostSandpit, on 14 July 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

just curious as to why this isn't listed with the other vlogs?

Because new announcements are usually here for some time, I guess.

#294 Sandpit

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:26 PM

View PostAsmudius Heng, on 12 July 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:


If they change this it will take them years to make another change, i seriously hope they reconsider before they commit to something they refuse to undo.

PGI very rarely makes major changes to a core feature unless it is destroying the game (Like R&R) - this will not do any damage apart from even more artillery, it will change very little so it will slip quietly by as people sigh and buy weapons modules and continue to dream of a game where roles and mech differentiation/character exist ...

PGI is right up there with EA for listening to feedback and then giving half-assed "fixes". I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you but yes, the OP's idea is far better than what I saw described by PGI. (That's nothing new either)

Once again, someone in the community takes a few minutes to come up with a more robust idea in their spare time using a little imagination and common sense than a multi-million dollar professional dev team can in months (if not years) of brainstorming and development.

Yet many can't understand why players are baffled, upset, and otherwise just unhappy with PGI's decisions regarding this game a lot of times.

#295 ShaneoftheDead

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:31 PM

View Postmooky, on 14 July 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I like most applaud almost everything in this VLOG.

I like the modules being broken into three categories, and even agree with the categories. I just am slightly concerned with the distribution of number of module slots PER category. (perhaps too many for some? Though the exact numbers of each aren't 100% known per mech chasis at the moment).

I also think that perhaps the "master module" slot should be an “omni” slot, able to hold any of the three category types.

Please don't be afraid to alter the module implementation if it ends up not quite working as intended. The only thing worse than a mistake, is not admitting to it and rectifying it, and you've come so far so recently PGI.


Excellent comment Mooky.

Did they think the module system was broken? I did not think this area of the game was broken. I am puzzled as to why PGI is messing around the with the module slots. Are there not better things to be working on or fixing? *cough*Community Warfare*cough* :)

If they are going to do this, I would prefer more Mech slots over consumable or weapon.

Now that I think about it, I would love if they limited the the air/arty strikes so you had to pick only one, not both. So you cannot have an airstrike and an artillerystrike loaded at the same time. I know that is not going to happen, but one can dream. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the weapon modules in their current form actually make your Mech worse. (except for the machine gun module) The heat increase is way to high for the minimal range increase. Most modules increase range 10-20m. That's like 2 or 3 steps forwards. --step--step--step--...there I just gave my Mech the range module...for free...on all my weapons...and without the heat penalty. You don't notice the damage increase, but you do notice the heat increase. A few of my Mechs run very hot. Why would I want to make that worse?

Or put it this way: I do not load the current weapon modules. I am not going to load the current weapon modules. Even if they are made to be the only ones you can load. Every module slot that is dedicated to a current weapons module will be empty on my Mechs. They are not worth the c-bill price to buy. They are definately not worth the GXP price to unlock. I'm not sure, but I think I would not load the current weapon modules on my Mechs even if PGI paid me to do it.

How about upping the range increase to something noticable? Or give us modules that make our weapons cooler? I belive another poster already commented on trading reduced range for reduced heat. I'd try that. Or how about a module that raises the Ghost Heat count? So you could fire 3 ER Large Lasers without the Ghost Heat, instead of only 2. (or whatever it is) I'd load that one on a few Mechs.

#296 Sandpit

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

View PostShaneoftheDead, on 14 July 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

I am puzzled as to why PGI is messing around the with the module slots. Are there not better things to be working on or fixing? *cough*Community Warfare*cough* :)

View PostSandpit, on 14 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:


It's just to have an extra sink in general. It's the "easy" way to implement new content. Stuff like this will appease some of the ones wanting more content and give PGI the ability to say "See? We're putting out new content!" while they search for that napkin that CW was written on and apparently lost.

I honestly feel stuff like this has much less to do with PGI wanting to balance anything and more to do with they want easy content to implement and create more sinks for money, cbills, and exp.


I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of "why"

#297 Túatha Dé Danann

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

View PostShaneoftheDead, on 14 July 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

How about upping the range increase to something noticable? Or give us modules that make our weapons cooler? I belive another poster already commented on trading reduced range for reduced heat. I'd try that. Or how about a module that raises the Ghost Heat count? So you could fire 3 ER Large Lasers without the Ghost Heat, instead of only 2. (or whatever it is) I'd load that one on a few Mechs.

I can remember a time, where I had 4 LPL in my Stalker 3F. I did 40 dmg with that - not poinpoint like the AC/40 Jaegers and I produced more heat. But for that, I had no ammo problem and a slightly longer range.

It was my favorite mech. This mech felt quite balanced. Not OP or something like using an exploit or such things. Then came ghost-heat. They destroyed a perfectly valid mech-loadout with a generalized nerf all over the board to prevent boating of certain things, like SRMs or PPCs.

PPCs had a very long range and were pinpoint. LPL not.

The heat on the lasers right now IS quite balanced. I have to give that to PGI. The margin to reduce that is only valid for some lasers, like Medium-Lasers (5% or so) and Large Pulse-Lasers (reduce the range and the heat - look at the Clan version for I/O reference)

So, my opinion is, that some people at PGI have problems with math... or better said: Non-linear functions and causal interactions. With the Clan weapons, they showed that they got better at that. Now its time for them to realize, that this is true for the modules. They can give the player a full set of weapon modules in order to "shape" the character of a mech without changing its general purpose, that is defines by its loadout. Thus you can bring together the players playstlye with the general aspect of a loadout, where weapons are fixed.

You want to bring Large Pulse lasers and Medium lasers closer together? Well, no problem, take a module, that increases the range of medium lasers, another module that decreases the range of your Large pulse laser, but also reduces the heat - or boosts the damage, so that the freaking 7 tons and 2 slots can get to work compared to the 2 tons and 2 slots of 2 Med-Lasers. Align the beam duration of both or do whatever you think is useful.

I like Pulse-Lasers, but right now, the IS variants are horribly underpowered, if I compare them to a PPC. But thats already another topic.

#298 Grendel408

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:25 PM

Just watched the video, some very good things coming... but I am sort of disappointed over the makeover done for Modules. It seems PGI has but more emphasis on Consumable and Weapon based Modules over the Mech Modules... how exactly does this work well given some of the best Scout Mechs have 3+ Modules slots before Mastering them? Maybe I'm just missing something and will have to wait to test it before getting a solid opinion on this new change, but it seems from description to be more of a drawback for the Light and Medium Mechs. :)

#299 Podex

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

So, are they going to change the name of C-LRMs to just C-Ms?

#300 L A V A

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:33 PM

I agree that limiting strikes to one is a good idea.

However, there are times I like to carry two cool shots and would like to continue to do so.

My view is, leave the modules as they are, add one weapon slot to all basic mechs and allow the master module to be universal. Perhaps give an additional weapon module slot when a mech reaches elite.

Let's go slow here... please.





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