20 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

PGI,

Seeing that we will be locked into only one Mech module upon mastery (for the most "common" versions according to DEVLOG), and understanding that by creating two dedicated consumable slots, you increase the chances for PGI to monetize time, I would still ask that MECH MODULES be increased to two at mastery.

Many people use multiples of the modules that do not involve Arty/Air (a fairly derided option as you've noted on the forums) and most do not use the weapon modules but dearly love their "Mech module" combinations.

This upcoming change will derail and disappoint many players, myself included. Perhaps upon mastery, give the player the option to choose Mech or weapon for an additional module slot, vice limiting us to only one.

Given the limitation, modules that many suspect are under utilized (Gyro, hillclimb, 360, cap accel, shock absorber) will be even further marginalized given people being forced to select only one such as Advzoom, Seismic, Radar Dep....for LRM-heavy mechs this is even furthering their difficulty as they will be reduced from a potential suite of modules to assist in targeting and target retention to one module.

Perhaps further divide the module categories and allow for more options - visual aid category, sensor category etc? There a bunch of ways to do this that would limit things a bit without being completely akin to pigeonholing imo.

[CHH Badkarma]

Sad how the modules have developed over the past year. I can understand sensor mods and other passive systems. When it starts buffing weapons systems, thats just lame.
Fail.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 12 July 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[Ryvucz]

I am a bit worried about this as well, and overall feel that your suggestion of having further split categories will help.

CHH Badkarma, on 12 July 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Sad how the modules have developed over the past year. I can understand sensor mods and other passive systems. When it starts buffing weapons systems, thats just lame.
Fail.

The weapon "buffs" do come with a slight heat penalty, and it's not even a major range advantage, ~4 meters.

[CHH Badkarma]

I guess it is just that my brain cant wrap itself around the idea of a module, that is not actual hardware, has no weight, takes no crits and has a effect on a hard weapons systen. Target data, better aim, sure. Damage even at the cost of heat, lame. Mod ppc emiters, coils, whatever. that is a tangible and physical(lol, in a game) change.That is what you need to do.
Modules are just air that equals an effect

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 12 July 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Ryvucz]

CHH Badkarma, on 12 July 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

I guess it is just that my brain cant wrap itself around the idea of a module, that is not actual hardware, has no weight, takes no crits and has a effect on a hard weapons systen. Target data, better aim, sure. Damage even at the cost of heat, lame. Mod ppc emiters, coils, whatever. that is a tangible and physical(lol, in a game) changeThat is what you need to do.
Modules are just air that equals an effect

Think of it as software/operating system.

[CHH Badkarma]

Yeah, i feel ya.
Just wish an os module would make my m855 5.56 rounds have a longer range without actually changing the ammo

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

Why can we not have a system that as you spend XP in a given Mech it unlocks SKILL's in that mech, not slots.

a complete overhaul should have been done, bringing in a proper Skill tree, where players can have Different skill sets than the next man depending on their skill sets.

[Therrinian]

Im not a fan of giving up seismic+radar dep. But seeing as everyone has to do it I could live with it.
Especially in group play you don't need everyone to use seismic, just a few people relaying that information is enough.
In pug play its more of a drawback but seeing as everyone will have the same handicap we should be fine.

The division of the modules into categories is a good idea, as it can force people to chose the under used weapon modules too.

However I completely agree with the OP on that the mastery module slot should not be a weapon module slot.
Most of my mech might have 3 weapon systems but almost always they rely on just two. The benefit for all that grind to master would be marginal.

I propose the mastery module slot be either a 'mech module' or an omni module.

[Lukoi Banacek]

What I do not like about the upcoming system of modules in addition to my previous concerns is that I use zero weapon modules and will not start using them in their current form. I do not need more range at the expense of more heat etc.

I do prefer the situational awareness of things like AZ, Target integration, seismic etc and even though I tend to never take more than two of those, that is simply how I build and play my mechs. This next system will require the use of two consumables to be competitive (dedicated slots you would be a fool not to fill) thereby just increasing grind and hurting new players in a sense. It further splits the haves from the have nots. As someone with over 400mil, I don't mind consuming 80k a match if it comes to that. I've got plenty of cash to buy and outfit new mechs, pay for a Dropship eventually, buy new modules being introduced etc. A newer player (tossed into the middle Elo bucket btw) on the other hand, gets their earnings cut into half or worse....a clear attempt at monetization (warranted or not), but even with premium time, it really hurts a new player's opportunity to earn c-bills and experiment with new mechs and gear.

There a ton of "mech" modules in their example, but only one slot for them at mastery seems extremely limiting imo.

[Mad Porthos]

Regarding the Weapon Module Slot at Mastery Skill level for a mech.

- Suggestion, allow the mastery skill level slot be a floating extra slot. By floating I mean essentially, universal. It can fit any module type, within reason. It opens up when you have attained mastery of the mech, and not before then. Hence, up until the point one has mastered a given mech, they really are relying on the mech for "what it is". They've put the modules, weapons, systems they want on it, yes... but it's still fundamentally limited to what it's "distribution" of modules sets it up for. So if it's a combat mech, perhaps it has lots of the weapon module slots, but only one general mech slot. Meanwhile another mech meant not so much for direct combat, because it's reknowned for being an spotter type, like the Raven 3L, might have 3 or 4 slots for consumables, ie. air strike, arty, AND UAV - but not have the option to have any weapon tweaks at all.

Having the universal "Mastery" slot that would fit anything, could allow that Raven 3L to actually have weapon mods, even though usually it's not a combat mech supposedly, or could allow a combat mech to actually have more consumable or general modifications, when it normally would not be in order, given it's chassis type and role. However, obviously it's still a trade off.

For those of you who don't "get" how modules can represent physical changes, at no weight, think of hot rodding and tricking out a car. I'm no expert at this, but I know a wee bit about weight changes from a few stints alongside mechanic friends of mine. The new, high performance parts that they swap into thier engines, the new fuel injection systems which are much more expensive, all that stuff, it's not heavier...sometimes it's even lighter. And it's all being put in to do the exact same job, be part of the engine...but more efficiently. Many times it's a removal of a limiter, the addition of a computer chip that is better at making a fuel and "air" mix to get more power out of the same gas, as well as better quality wiring, spark plugs etc.

How do you reflect that personal TUNING on a mech? It's not a whole new system, like an ARTEMIS laced through the whole mech, nor is it a new engine... but it is things setup the way an experienced mechwarrior and his experienced TECHS want it. In short, it's hot rodding your mech and it is represented by "modules". Think of it like a kit. By 3049, techs know the things they can do to make actuators anticipate a landing and absorb the shock more, or to change the cycles of charging to be a little more efficient so that your laser is a little more focused and thus has more range, but perhaps a bit more heat created when firing. It's not a different laser, nor a different set of actuators, it's the hot rodding that makes for a shock absorbance module or a medium laser range module.

I think the above mastery module makes sense also in this context because BY THE TIME you are a master pilot, you've probably figured out many many ways you could hot rod your mech, even found extra ways you could do it without having the modifications interfere with each other. Hence your growing knowlege gives you that option of more tweaking on that mech design. You still have to pay that GXP price to figure it out, to get the right to use the module... plus the extra cost to do the modifications ... to OWN the module, but that's I think the best way to look at modules.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Dyno/custom tuning of a car is a prime example of present day technological enhancements that might be akin to the way Devs see modules. Additionally, there are software upgrades in military gear that do the same, without adding weight/taking up space in the vehicle/equipment.

So, while an unusual tact by the Devs, not without precedent.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Given the impact modules, especially the "mech" designated ones, can have on this game, especially for LRM pilots, I am fairly surprised this issue isn't garnering more attention.

[Martis Gradivus]

Well, that's because having seen many matches from the cockpit of someone else's mech, I know that most don't run modules like seismic. Most run radar dep and some other module, usually zoom. Dedicated LRM boats rely on others for locks, so rarely use advanced target decay (and face it, with radar dep, that module is no longer as useful) or advanced target range. Mind you, I run them on my LRM Stalker, but most don't.

I think most people are looking at the consumables and thinking how great it will be to have an arty and an air strike. What they fail to realize is that there will be 23 other people with the same modules, and 12 of them will be aiming for him.

When that happens, the forum QQ will be delicious.

[oHans]

I support what lukoi has to say, this whole module mechanic system your working on seems very troublesome

[Lukoi Banacek]

Realistically we do not know what Modules people are playing MG (aka Donny and those like him that really like some of the less "optimal" modules) and with these new rules, it is safe to say, those modules will never get played.

We do agree that the upcoming module changes are probably MORE limiting and less fun than what we have now.

[Revis Volek]

So essentially you have taken all other modules out of the game with this planned "FIX" to the modules. This makes Hill Climb, Improved Gyros, 360 Degree Retention and a like pretty much obsolete. If you don't have room for these secondary modules why even have them in the game?

All non LRM mechs will take Radar Dep., Target Gathering or Adv. Zoom, and anything with LRM's will be forced to take either Adv. Sensor Range or Target Decay (if they haven't stopped) why would you cut yourself out of this needed playtime to get the Modules and cut us outta our time spent PGI? Isn't forcing someone to grind for a 6mill c-bill module more lucrative to you then a 40,000 c-bill one? That more often then not is wasted because of a MISS? I don't understand who or what this is intended to help....no one uses the weapon mod's because 4 meters of range is NOTHING and then you have to worry about extra heat. It is silly to also FORCE me to set up my mech and its modules in a certain way. You are negating all the work i put in to get these modules and the loadouts and mechs I use them in. I still don't understand how 4 or 5 meters is even a viable idea for a MODULE maybe 40 meters but even that isn't worth it with the extra heat with most of my builds.

If weapon modules were viable maybe I wouldn't mind this? But each mech needs at least two (2) modules slots once mastered for mech related Modules. Otherwise combos like Advanced Zoom and Seismic to watch my own but while I'm zoomed in are no more? This makes a lot of your modules useless like i said and not worth using IMO. It also will stop the purchase of modules from new players because it no longer that important. One slot for each mech then i guess i get my favorite module.....and i want a refund for all the time spent on the ones i bought i don't often use and CANNOT ever again now due to the change.

I agree 100% that this will equal less fun, and a tougher new player experience. Tell the new player to spend all that GXP and C-bills to get a module that only extends his weapons half the distance of the height of the mech he is in....but will cause him to overheat more.

[Lukoi Banacek]

The funny thing is my weapon slots, all two or three or however many at mastery, will remain 100% empty for my mechs regardless of type. If I want weapon bonuses I get a CC or TC. I do NOT add heat for a minor range increase or similar garbabe modules ever.....maybe PGI will tweak weapon modules in some significant way in the future but fornow those are a waste of time. I will not be wasting XP or cash on them...maybe PGI needs to see the metrics on a bunch of empty weapon module slots to understand the social behavior they are not generating with these changes.

[Revis Volek]

Right? Gimme a 40 (not 4) meter range boost and LESS HEAT for using a precious module slot on one of these and i might think about taking one with me on a all laser build or something similar over the latter.

I made the mistake early on of buying some of these and wasting my time and money...I guess I should be happy I'm being FORCED to use something i wasted C-bills and GXP on but I cant justify it because they are a useless item. A overhaul of this idea needs to be done....and if this is the route we are taking then the Weapon Modules need a compete overhaul as well.


Sounds like more work for the sake of work....."All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward.”

Edited by DarthRevis, 15 July 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Donny Line Z]

well I guess I'll have shelve my hillclimb because I wont be able to use the shockabsorbers to help me get off the hill . I see that happening all over the place with this new mod nerf .... not sure y'all thought this one through, as I am unlikely to buy any new modules soon , or for that matter master out a mech

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Hooray more pulling the rug out from under the players!

customer: Finally I have all the stuff purchased for my modules and have mastered this stupid grind PGI forces on me by grinding 3 mechs!

PGI: LOL...as intended! So now we are going to change it all and we don't care what you think because you'll still play and buy our money grabs!

customer: Every time I pay cash for a mech they nerf it a few months later, every time I think that PGI is coming around on things and they're headed in the right direction they up and pull the rug from under me.

PGI: Again.....lol, as intended! We don't care! Just buy more of what you don't need!

customer: They seem to misunderstand our love and loyalty to the Mechwarrior brand for theirs. We hate PGI, we love MW, we tolerate MWO in hopes that it becomes the MW we were promised.

If Russ and Bryan had a baby it would be as ugly as the last 3 years of PGI/IGP and their baby MWO.