94 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Scratx, on 13 July 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

You know... could someone tweet to Russ that he needs Blur taken out of LRM impacts? And point at Blacksoul's post to show what we mean?

Don't forget to ask for it to be removed from AC's too then.

[Sephlock]

Livewyr, on 13 July 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Considering that without the heavy nerf, they would be Streak 20s at 1 meter, you should consider yourself lucky they are nerfing it as they are.

PGI is doing a good job of skirting the absolute destruction that would be unfettered Clan technology, while not making them clan copies of their IS counterparts.

Streak 10s, no? I mean, LRMs do less damage per missile than Streaks.

As it is, they really should have no min range in which they are nerfed at all.

Wolfways, on 13 July 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Don't forget to ask for it to be removed from AC's too then.

Also lets just remove all the rest of the fun and immersion from the game entirely and just have perfectly steady floating cameras with a little blinking damage indicator whenever you get hit.

[ScarecrowES]

I generally hate threads that insist on nerfs to LRMs, as they're all based on a flawed premise - that the frequency of LRM strikes in a match translates to massive damage output/received. As Koniving noted... LRMs are spammy but hardly overpowered. Hell, in relation to weight, ammo requirements, and practical usage, it's hard to call LRMs "powered," let alone overpowered.

The practical reality is that LRMs do little real damage per shot in actual match play. Especially given the current buffs to AMS and the radar deprivation module, even getting consistant LRM strikes is difficult. Tag lasers and NARC beacons are not a substitute for proper spotting and tracking, and getting cooperation from teammates to make successful LRM strikes is thus difficult and rare.

In my stable of nearly 30 mechs, I have only 4 which have LRMs as their main armament. Not a one is what I'd call a reliable, high output build. Prior to the most recent round of evasion buffs, my Catapult C1 could pull down 600-800 damage a match, but rarely kills (alas, indirect damage). Now I'm lucky to pull 400. I have a Warhawk B with the same number of missiles (40) which does slightly better sometimes, but only because it also has 2 ERLL and 2ERML backing the missiles up. Both of these mechs carries enough ammo to have me constantly firing all match (or until death). That's hardly the powerhouse most LRM naysayers would claim.

No, the problem with LRMs is spam. LRM-5s fired back-to-back and multiple LRM boats firing on the same targets. The only time you ever really have a problem with LRMs in a match is when you find yourself in a bad situation with multiple LRM boats raining down on you. Of course, it could argued, rightly, that in this case the fact that you're being fired on at all by so many LRMs is your own fault and noone else's.

[Pjwned]

Wolfways, on 13 July 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Don't forget to ask for it to be removed from AC's too then.

That would be fair if ACs had anywhere close to as much impulse, even the AC20 has 1/3 as much and that's pretty ridiculous.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Just saying.

You guys think LRM spam is bad now, lol you just wait.

Going to be pretty funny after the next patch, when a LRM20 is effectively a SRM6 WITH GUIDANCE at 90 meters..

If anyone else is bothered by this, please speak up..

LRMs now are fine.
Easy to counter, lots of downsides, low accuracy (for all the EZMode rage some claim, the vast majority of players, even comp, have an actual hit rate/Accuracy of around 30%, for a reason. Which btw, is about HALF the accuracy rate I have with my next worst weapons)

That said, even though I run clan mechs, I agree, that canon or not, the no minimum range LRMs, really are not needed, and probably, not a good idea.

I believe within a few weeks of it, even with a scaling damage factor, that for their weight, they will prove too strong,at least for the Underhive, but possibly in reality, too, and the QQ backlash will begin. At that point, PGI will decide they have to nerf C-LRMs, and instead of simply removing the scaling damage range, they will do something totally drastic, and reduce damage, or increase heat, or some other thing, that will ruin the C-LRM entirely.

And that is not even addressing the part where scaling damage on missiles.... makes ZERO bloody sense.

I believe this, and the inevitable transition of IS Autocannons to burst fire, will completely ruin the delicate balance PGI has achieved with the Clans/IS to date.

[Wolfways]

Pjwned, on 13 July 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

That would be fair if ACs had anywhere close to as much impulse, even the AC20 has 1/3 as much and that's pretty ridiculous.

I guess you haven't read all the posts by people claiming they can't see when fired at by AC's. Of course those have mainly been replaced by LRM threads...for now.

[EgoSlayer]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Just saying.

You guys think LRM spam is bad now, lol you just wait.

Going to be pretty funny after the next patch, when a LRM20 is effectively a SRM6 WITH GUIDANCE at 90 meters..

If anyone else is bothered by this, please speak up..

A CLRM 20 Its going to be an SRM3 @ 90 meters (~6.6 damage) if *every* missile hits which never happens. As many have pointed out, it's not going to be the damage that is the issue, it will be the screen blur/shake that is going to be the part that screws everything up.
Missiles which do less damage than every other weapon in the game except MGs and Flamers and yet cause more screen shake than everything else needs to be fixed/removed. It's a broken mechanic and one of the reasons there is so much hate on LRMs

[GunnyKintaro 01]

its good news to me !!!

[Noesis]

EgoSlayer, on 13 July 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

A CLRM 20 Its going to be an SRM3 @ 90 meters (~6.6 damage) if *every* missile hits which never happens. As many have pointed out, it's not going to be the damage that is the issue, it will be the screen blur/shake that is going to be the part that screws everything up.
Missiles which do less damage than every other weapon in the game except MGs and Flamers and yet cause more screen shake than everything else needs to be fixed/removed. It's a broken mechanic and one of the reasons there is so much hate on LRMs

But shake is proportional to the weapon impulse amount multiplied by the applied damage. So if the damage is reduced I assume the shake will be also.

[Quaamik]

Actually, an LRM 20 will be about equal to an SRM 2 with guidance at 90 meters (5 points of damage). Since I doubt the guidance will be as good as the Streak 2, it will fall between them.

What I actually see this doing is making LRM boats more defensable at close range. The problem is since it is only on clan mechs, IS LRM boats will be hard pressed to match a clan LRM boat.

[Kibble]

QQing about nothing. Wait till the patch is out and then complain. When has PGI ever changed something due to players preemptively bitching?

[Mcgral18]

Remember that time PGI introduced the Clan LRM min range onto all the IS missiles?

Remember how useless they were at 150M?


Shake might be the same, though.

[Livewyr]

Kibble, on 13 July 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

QQing about nothing. Wait till the patch is out and then complain. When has PGI ever changed something due to players preemptively bitching?

Coolshot.
Artillery Strike.
Air Strike.

(I do not agree with their sentiment at all- but your question did have an answer you were not looking for.)

[Kibble]

Livewyr, on 13 July 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Coolshot.
Artillery Strike.
Air Strike.

(I do not agree with their sentiment at all- but your question did have an answer you were not looking for.)

I totally forgot about the consumable argument way back in the day.

Which means....PGI do what PGI want.

Edited by Kibble, 13 July 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Just saying.

You guys think LRM spam is bad now, lol you just wait.

Going to be pretty funny after the next patch, when a LRM20 is effectively a SRM6 WITH GUIDANCE at 90 meters..

If anyone else is bothered by this, please speak up..

I don't think LRM Spam is bad now, and giving the Clans Hot loaded LRMs is perfectly acceptable...

[Joseph Mallan]

Koniving the one thing everyone forgets is those sources are all FLUFF text. They are not rules or game mechanics. If ACs were meant to spread damage then There would be mechanics like the one for missiles.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 July 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[Exilyth]

AMS is the new meta.

Nothing new really.

[Kiiyor]

Shredhead, on 13 July 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

The damage won't be the worst about it. Try brawling an enemy that you can't properly see due to constant screen shake and explosions. You think IS LRM5 spammers are bad?

I hope the impulse decreases in direct proportion to the lower proximity damage. Even then, any impulse, especially from Clan missiles, will be cutting the other Achilles tendon of brawlers.

[FupDup]

Where did my post about Clan Lurms being unable to indirect fire go?

Okay, here's the short and sweet gist of it. Clan Lurms would be given a flat trajectory such that they can no longer be used like artillery. To counter the effects of such a nerf, they would be given things like a faster lock-on, faster travel time, maybe better tracking, etc. etc. They would be geared for direct-combat, rather than support-artillery like IS Lurms.

This kind of deviates from TT a bit, but at the same time it gives the Clan Lurms a more distinct playstyle and fits their "honor" rules better.

[Deathlike]

Does anyone realize the math behind LRM min range is exponential?

For instance, 90m = 50% distance (of 180m) -> .5 "squared" = .25 (25% of normal damage)
120m = 66% distance ->.66 "squared" = .44 (44% of normal damage)
135m = 75% distance -> .75 "squared" = .56 (56% of normal damage)
144m = 80% distance -> .8 "squared" = .64 (64% of normal damage)
162m = 90% distance -> .9 "squared" = .81 (81% of normal damage)

In essence, if your target is JUST crossing the 180m threshold, you'll be doing reasonable amounts of damage. Once they REALLY close on you, you're doing squat for damage.