150 replies to this topic

[SethAbercromby]

Wintersdark, on 13 July 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

It's just not. The A1 is only good at 6xLRM5 (4 10's? Ghost heat, more spread, slower cycle)
The C1 is just as good as the C4, really - at that point, you're running a pair of ALRM15's, generally speaking.

It's absolutely not the most versatile missile platform. It perhaps should be, but isn't.

Penta = 5. That's the number of LRM10s you need to continously use them in chain fire without waiting for cycling at any point, which is why I was referring to missile spam with the first 2. Chain fired LRMs are in a lot of cases much more potent than singular salvos and you can still fire all of them at once with both the C4 and the A1 without suffering critical heat.

C1 can run 2xLRM20 while the C4 can use 4xLRM10. In that scenario, the C4 is more ammo efficient and cycles faster but suffers from having only 2 energy hardpoints in the CT, one of those being almost a madatory TAG, while the C1 has 2 additional Energy hardpoints in the STs, so it also has the option to go for 2xLRM15 and then carry 2 LLas for more direct fire capabilities. Basically, the C4 is the better choice if you want to be very missile-centric, but the C1 is more balanced and offers direct fire options.

[OznerpaG]

for my specific style i prefer speed and lots of ammo over high tube counts - being in position to keep firing and offering fire support all the way through the game is way more important to me than mounting an LRM80

i don't think much of any LRM mech lighter than the Jag or Cat since none except maybe the Kintaro (which i havn't tried yet) can really offer a decent tube count, speed, and ammo in one package - not that they can't be effective, but it seems that anything less than an LRM30 gets chewed up in a heavy AMS environment

my best LRM mech is the Jag-A
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5747d95100cf77c

i like the LRM15/trip LRM5 setup since i can do a 30 missile salvo, or if i'm threatened and backing up (or firing at lights) i keep the LRM mouse button pressed to split my firing into dual 15 missile salvos to keep the enemy cockpit shake going. the single MLas doesn't seem like much but after 230 games speed and smart positioning keeps me out of trouble and i rarely die outside of losses

i'm currently leveling the Cat C4 which i arm the exact same except minus 1t ammo for a JJ - the JJ lets you get high up so your LRMs clear terrain better which i LOVE, but those stupid doors are a pain to remember to open every...single...match lol
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7c67b47285a1ab


THE best LRM mech for my style is the Battlemaster 1S
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3613d6c9a186db6

good speed, an LRM20/LRM15 dual salvo when i'm in trouble, high TAG, great defensive weapons, lots of armour - the best and most forgiving LRM 'training' mech once it's leveled


i notice that some of you equip both a Beagle probe AND a TAG on your LRM mechs - if you have TAG equipped don't waste tonnage on a BAP since TAGging a mech will let you immediately target AND nullify ECM up to 750m. BAP is only good for the Cat A1 (no energy slots) and SSRMs

[Hamish McPiton]

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

i don't think much of any LRM mech lighter than the Jag or Cat since none except maybe the Kintaro (which i havn't tried yet) can really offer a decent tube count, speed, and ammo in one package - not that they can't be effective, but it seems that anything less than an LRM30 gets chewed up in a heavy AMS environment

my best LRM mech is the Jag-A
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5747d95100cf77c

i like the LRM15/trip LRM5 setup since i can do a 30 missile salvo, or if i'm threatened and backing up (or firing at lights) i keep the LRM mouse button pressed to split my firing into dual 15 missile salvos to keep the enemy cockpit shake going.

And you can chain-fire them too, for ultra-spamminess. That's the same LRM set-up I use for my JM6-A (although I use 2 med lasers and two AC2'S so I guess I'm not really "boating") and it's much more effective than I thought it would be. I tried a pure Boat build but like to have a little direct fire Dakka so It's more of multi-role support mech.
Neat to see someone else run the A - but I'll be the first to say it's not the "best" heavy LRM mech by any measure.
That Battlemaster looks like an absolute beast.

Edited by Hamish McPiton, 14 July 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[Holdfast]

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

for my specific style i prefer speed and lots of ammo over high tube counts - being in position to keep firing and offering fire support all the way through the game is way more important to me than mounting an LRM80

i don't think much of any LRM mech lighter than the Jag or Cat since none except maybe the Kintaro (which i havn't tried yet) can really offer a decent tube count, speed, and ammo in one package - not that they can't be effective, but it seems that anything less than an LRM30 gets chewed up in a heavy AMS environment

I'm loving my Griffin 1N (LRM-A 15 + 10 + 5, 6 tons armor, tag, bap, 100 k/hr). I'm planning on downgrading the engine a bit (from an XL310 to an XL 300) and getting a ton more ammo and a little more armor.

Also a shout out for Centurion LRM boats. Like the Griffin you can shove everything in the torso, and that lets you soak up a huge amount of damage with the arms and stay completely effective. More than one match I was the freakin' Black Knight with both arms and one leg blown off, and I was still hopping after the enemy, lobbing 25 missiles at a time.

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

i notice that some of you equip both a Beagle probe AND a TAG on your LRM mechs - if you have TAG equipped don't waste tonnage on a BAP since TAGging a mech will let you immediately target AND nullify ECM up to 750m. BAP is only good for the Cat A1 (no energy slots) and SSRMs

It also keeps you from immediately losing targeting locks on non-tagged targets whenever an ECM light comes within 180 meters of you. It also speeds up lock time. Personal choice, but certainly weigh the pros and cons.

Edited by Holdfast, 14 July 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Hamish McPiton, on 14 July 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

And you can chain-fire them too, for ultra-spamminess. That's the same LRM set-up I use for my JM6-A (although I use 2 med lasers and two AC2'S so I guess I'm not really "boating") and it's much more effective than I thought it would be. I tried a pure Boat build but like to have a little direct fire Dakka so It's more of multi-role support mech.
Neat to see someone else run the A - but I'll be the first to say it's not the "best" heavy LRM mech by any measure.
That Battlemaster look like a beast.

i started off with exactly the Jag-A loadout you mentioned (including an AC20/LRM15 version) in my transition to my using LRMs but i found i rarely fired the ACs except when i got in trouble which was only ever in the last half of a match, and i wanted to be laying down max fire right from the start. my LRM transition was gradual, but eventually i arrived at the min/max conclusion

i still find it funny i only bought the Jag-A because the DD was significantly more expensive so i bought the Jag-A in anticipation of leveling it, then never touching it again. 6 months later i'v played the Jag-A 340 games, while the Firebrand and the Jag-S are at about 100 games each and havn't been touched in months lol


I'd LOVE to spam those LRM5s since it's beautiful against lights (as i discovered while leveling the A1 w/6 LRM5s) but i don't have enough buttons for it. i used to have TAG always on (weighted key), but more than a few times it acted like a beacon showing where i was and attracted lights and/or trouble so now i do:

left mouse - TAG
right mouse - alpha LRMs
middle rollerball button - MLas
thumb button - target

[OznerpaG]

Holdfast, on 14 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm loving my Griffin 1N (LRM-A 15 + 10 + 5, 6 tons armor, tag, bap, 100 k/hr). I'm planning on downgrading the engine a bit (from an XL310 to an XL 300) and getting a ton more ammo and a little more armor.

Also a shout out for Centurion LRM boats. Like the Griffin you can shove everything in the torso, and that lets you soak up a huge amount of damage with the arms and stay completely effective. More than one match I was the freakin' Black Knight with both arms and one leg blown off, and I was still hopping after the enemy, lobbing 25 missiles at a time.



It also keeps you from immediately losing targeting locks on non-tagged targets whenever an ECM light comes within 180 meters of you. It also speeds up lock time. Personal choice, but certainly weigh the pros and cons.

leveled the cents - the were good LRM boats and i did well with them, but not enough positive impact in matches compared to my Jag


but the griffen - huh, you got me thinking they might be worth a shot. will have to weigh it with the kintaro


you could be right about the BAP and ECM interference, never knew about that. but faster lock-on time is wrong - only Artemus and perhaps TAG provides that service
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...t#module_normal

[Holdfast]

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

leveled the cents - the were good LRM boats and i did well with them, but not enough positive impact in matches compared to my Jag

Was this before 3+3+3+3? Might make more of a difference now, but certainly up to you.

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

but the griffen - huh, you got me thinking they might be worth a shot. will have to weigh it with the kintaro

I almost got the Kintaros, but (a) it seemed that going with Artemis became weight prohibitive with LRM-5s (and I like Artemis), ( I couldn't shove everything into the torso, and (c) it didn't seem to be much of a damage upgrade over the Centurion.

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

you could be right about the BAP and ECM interference, never knew about that. but faster lock-on time is wrong - only Artemus and perhaps TAG provides that service
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...t#module_normal

Oops, you're right, it is Artemis and Tag (and they stack, btw). BAP gives a farther range detection, though.

(also, some really good stuff in here: http://mwomercs.com/...m-commandments/, you just need to get past the huge flame war to find it.)

[Hamish McPiton]

JagdFlanker, on 14 July 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

i started off with exactly the Jag-A loadout you mentioned (including an AC20/LRM15 version) in my transition to my using LRMs but i found i rarely fired the ACs except when i got in trouble which was only ever in the last half of a match, and i wanted to be laying down max fire right from the start. my LRM transition was gradual, but eventually i arrived at the min/max conclusion

i still find it funny i only bought the Jag-A because the DD was significantly more expensive so i bought the Jag-A in anticipation of leveling it, then never touching it again. 6 months later i'v played the Jag-A 340 games, while the Firebrand and the Jag-S are at about 100 games each and havn't been touched in months lol

Yeah - I'll only add these couple of things so as not to hijack the thread - but I like to do direct fire and play close in the middle of the team, so I don't like a pure missile boat. I like the fact you tried the ac20/lrm15 - I do have a hilarious single Gauss/LRM build that's not great but a fun "kill the missile boat - OH CR@P Gauss to the face" build. I like the Dakka Jagers but the A is a fun guy with Lrms or Srms. I didn't think much about the A at first but I'm keeping it.

[Kjudoon]

Holdfast, on 14 July 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm loving my Griffin 1N (LRM-A 15 + 10 + 5, 6 tons armor, tag, bap, 100 k/hr). I'm planning on downgrading the engine a bit (from an XL310 to an XL 300) and getting a ton more ammo and a little more armor.

Also a shout out for Centurion LRM boats. Like the Griffin you can shove everything in the torso, and that lets you soak up a huge amount of damage with the arms and stay completely effective. More than one match I was the freakin' Black Knight with both arms and one leg blown off, and I was still hopping after the enemy, lobbing 25 missiles at a time.



It also keeps you from immediately losing targeting locks on non-tagged targets whenever an ECM light comes within 180 meters of you. It also speeds up lock time. Personal choice, but certainly weigh the pros and cons.

While most Medium LRMboats seem to settle into a nice functionality at 20tubes, the Griffen seems to demand 30. I dont know why, but it does. I put 30 on my SDH and it's just lacking something when I have 20 and an ERPPC, The KTOs with 4LRM5s with Artemis and ERLL/ML/Tag combo is by far my most deadly medium missile machine. I don't know why but it just rocks for that weight class.

The 15/10/5 combo is a superior way to get 30 tubes on a medium as it is lighter and less hot, plus the syncopation screws with pilot's heads.

I could never get an effective Centurion LRMboat.

As for BAP... its a serious YMMV chunk of equipment. If you have leftover space, consider it. Faster lock times are helpful plus finding shut down mechs. But as for countering ECM... its about as consistant as a narcoleptic ADHD afflicted slacker on Red Bull. It may or may not work at any time even in 150m. Its failed me a significant number of times at critical moments. PGI has given me indication this is 'working as intended' when I've sent in service tickets. So do what you will on that front. Given the LRM freakout of the last few months and the stealth buffs to AMS (3 and counting) every edge you can get, the better.

[Tesunie]

This depends upon what one wishes to do with their mech, how many LRMs they wish to commit to, and other such factors.

Personally, unless in a premade group, I never suggest one to truly "boat" only LRMs. I always suggest a balance between LRMs and some close range defense. Actually, often times, you don't need many LRMs on a mech to have a good build.

Of course, this also depends upon how one wishes to use their LRMs. LRMs as a primary weapon can be very risky. LRMs as a support weapon on your mech can be rather rewarding and can sometimes even tip the balance of a fight into your favor.

Personally, I think the Stalker is one that works very well if you want LRMs, as it can also sport a lot of support weapons to hold it up in close combat (I should say the 3F is my ride). A griffin can also make for a nice LRM platform.

So, before I could suggest any mech chassis to make an LRM mech from, I'd first have to know what kind of LRM mech one is wishing to pilot. I suggest one not to "boat" LRMs, but that is up to personal preference...

[OznerpaG]

Kjudoon, on 14 July 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

As for BAP... its a serious YMMV chunk of equipment. If you have leftover space, consider it. Faster lock times are helpful plus finding shut down mechs. But as for countering ECM... its about as consistant as a narcoleptic ADHD afflicted slacker on Red Bull. It may or may not work at any time even in 150m. Its failed me a significant number of times at critical moments. PGI has given me indication this is 'working as intended' when I've sent in service tickets. So do what you will on that front. Given the LRM freakout of the last few months and the stealth buffs to AMS (3 and counting) every edge you can get, the better.

as mentioned in post #26, BAP does not affect lock-on time, only Artemus and perhaps TAG does

honestly i don't see a need for BAP - i'd rather have 270 extra ammo (9 shots with an LRM30), and if i get the 'ECM static' on my map that means there's an enemy mech dangerously close so i lose interest in my current target and start looking for the threat and/or run to huddle close to my team for defense

and you'r right about the BAP being inconsistent - i had to use one on the Cat-A1 along with adv sensor range and at least once i had a lone non-ECM supported enemy mech approach me while i was backing up and i couldn't target it until it hit 200m which was far too late

[OznerpaG]

Tesunie, on 14 July 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

This depends upon what one wishes to do with their mech, how many LRMs they wish to commit to, and other such factors.

Personally, unless in a premade group, I never suggest one to truly "boat" only LRMs. I always suggest a balance between LRMs and some close range defense. Actually, often times, you don't need many LRMs on a mech to have a good build.

Of course, this also depends upon how one wishes to use their LRMs. LRMs as a primary weapon can be very risky. LRMs as a support weapon on your mech can be rather rewarding and can sometimes even tip the balance of a fight into your favor.

Personally, I think the Stalker is one that works very well if you want LRMs, as it can also sport a lot of support weapons to hold it up in close combat (I should say the 3F is my ride). A griffin can also make for a nice LRM platform.

So, before I could suggest any mech chassis to make an LRM mech from, I'd first have to know what kind of LRM mech one is wishing to pilot. I suggest one not to "boat" LRMs, but that is up to personal preference...

'boating' LRMs isn't something you try and have it work right away - there's a 'science' to it and it takes practice to be consistent. i just much prefer LRMs over LOS (line of sight) weapons since with good speed and smart positioning (the 'science') i can support almost any teammate at any time without having to actually be near them and contribute to the win, and i can shift that fire from 1 teammate to help another near instantly

you'l never get a great K/D ratio with LRMs, but you can get decent results AND help your team win if you take the time to hone your LRM skills - keep in mind too that with the exception of the Battlemaster (3 MLas) and the A1 (no self defense, 6 LRM5s only) i only use a single MLas for defense because with smart positioning that's all you need

[Yumemi79]

Personally i enjoyed the Thunderbolt 5S as "bloat". LRM 20+10 and 4 energy and 2 ballistic slots.
The TDR-9SE can wield the same but has jumpjets.

[Stephen McCann]

This is my new favorite Stormcrow D
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ecdd974e6d0346a
I am regularly doing 600-700 damage per game. It has one major weakness light mechs that get too close to it, but other than that it is doing very well.

Edited by Stephen McCann, 15 July 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Stephen McCann, on 15 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

This is my new favorite Stormcrow D
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ecdd974e6d0346a
I am regularly doing 600-700 damage per game. It has one major weakness light mechs that get too close to it, but other than that it is doing very well.

a little advice if i may - for c-LRMs the best firepower for weight deals are the c-LRM15 and c-LRM20 so if at all possible avoid using the c-LRM5 and c-LRM10 if you can since they weigh more.

also it took me a while but just yesterday i realized that TAG is an absolute waste of time on clan mechs - no matter matter what size of c-LRM launcher you use it comes out in a stream straight to the enemy's CT so tightening the stream isn't necessary. use a c-BAP instead and if you can throw on an adv sensor range module

and finally unlike IS mechs, boating c-LRMs isn't ideal if only because clan lasers are too good of a deal to pass up and it allows you to dramatically increase firepower for little cost - 5 ERSLas give you a fantastic 20 dmg for 10 heat and 2.5t and it keeps those pesky lights out of your hair. plus the zombie head laser is HUGE when you lose both torsos lol

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3db09806897684d

[Escef]

I call her "Hilda". She's a big girl, but that just means there's more of her to love. And I'd put her in competition with almost any other LRM boat out there. 50 Artemis guided LRMs WILL ruin someone's day. And when the ammo runs dry, she has enough backup firepower to finish off the stragglers.

[Chromedbustop]

A lot of the mechs mentioned are great if you're talking max damage per volley, but they have their downsides. Most of them are Heavy and Assault mechs which makes them slower. Which seems to also mean people sit back at max range and just dumbfire their missles, which is both lazy and inefficient.

Yes, if you hit something with a Battlemaster, Catapult, or Awesome; it's going to hurt and hurt a lot. But that's still "IF" you hit something.

I think good lrm boats offer firepower and mobility. My choice is the KTO-18 with 5xLRM5s+Artemis. It runs at almost 100kph which makes it very mobile. You can get up closer which gives you a better chance to get your own locks (any good boater should be able to get their own targets and not rely on dumbfire) and gives your target less time to avoid your missles. Plus if things get tense you've got the speed to get out of there.

Many think of this mech as a harasseer, shooting off a constant stream of missles to really annoy your target. But you catch something out in the open without ams (and it's still common to find ams free targets) and you can do a lot of damage.

A constant stream of missles can be far more effective than massive volleys with long gaps in between. Plus unlike some of the other mechs suggest, you will not overheat in this, cause if you do then you're just impossibly bad.

I run mine with a mlas and tag. I used to do two mlas but I found it really didn't make any difference at all in defending me. Tag ended up being far more beneficial.

[Lil Cthulhu]

I see lots of you don't like clan lrms. However I do and I do quite well with them, though YMMV

I have to cast my vote for the Timberwolf, the god of pretty much anything you would want to do with a mech.

4 LRM15's, 4 ERMLs, TAG and ten tons of LRM ammo is the build that I make the tears fall with.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Heimstif - I finally saw your S1 demonstration and started laughing hysterically at it. Boy I hated those Shadowhawk 2H's Never got a solid build on it and finally sold it as junk.

That would have been what? Last December or so? I was playing 1 handed in those days after my second elbow surgery. I was sooooo immobile and such a bad shot. LOL I was finally able to play with 2 hands again sometime in February and it was glorious.

Anyway, thanks for pushing me down the memory staircase for that one.

[Escef]

Chromedbustop, on 17 July 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

A lot of the mechs mentioned are great if you're talking max damage per volley, but they have their downsides. Most of them are Heavy and Assault mechs which makes them slower. Which seems to also mean people sit back at max range and just dumbfire their missles, which is both lazy and inefficient.

Anyone that knows how to actually use their LRMs will be moving around to find a good firing position. In more fluid battles, the LRM boat should be moving almost as much as anyone else. Backing up to clear nearby obstacles, moving in to decrease flight time, flanking to get around cover. I've seen plenty of LRM boaters that just fire indirectly and are totally unconcerned that their missiles are hitting buildings or terrain, and just keep plugging away. Yes, some people do play that way. But the folks that know what they're doing don't just sit there and fling ordnance into the sky. Most heavies (and a lot of assaults) have enough speed to reposition for optimum LRM usage. Especially the BLR-1S, which stock uses a bigger engine than a Stalker can possibly use (and even then the Stalker is usually fast enough to reposition).

EDIT: Had to add a "don't" in there. Kinda' changes the whole meaning of the sentence when you leave that out.

Edited by Escef, 17 July 2014 - 01:03 PM.