55 replies to this topic

[Sundervine]

Rocketdyne 27A, one od the first stage boosters used on the delta 2:

Thrust (sl): 890.100 kN (200,102 lbf). Thrust (sl): 90,770 kgf. Engine: 1,091 kg (2,405 lb). Chamber Pressure: 49.00 bar. Area Ratio: 12. Propellant Formulation: Lox/RP-1 Lox/RP-1. Thrust to Weight Ratio: 102.468075150265. Oxidizer to Fuel Ratio: 2.245. Coefficient of Thrust vacuum: 1.80185738739855. Coefficient of Thrust sea level: 1.60185738739855.
Unfuelled mass: 1,091 kg (2,405 lb).
Height: 3.78 m (12.40 ft).
Diameter: 1.07 m (3.51 ft).
Thrust: 1,054.20 kN (236,994 lbf).
Specific impulse: 302 s.
Specific impulse sea level: 255 s.
Burn time: 274 s.
First Launch: 1987.
Number: 20 .

That enough information to figure out what you wanted?

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

The point of the tank reference is to but the mass and clumsy nature of whats being lifted into perspective.

In lore it seems like 90 tons is the cutoff. Victors are 'spry'. The Highlander is a lumbering beast that uses jjs as a raised middle finger to gravity.
Hi
ghlander burial and all.

yeah, and you really think we will ever see melee?

[SgtMagor]

just tested my HM out 5 jump jets, it would be very difficult to do a Highlander burial. As stated before, it takes a long time to build enough thrust to get high enough.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

This is sort of easy.

Lets say a 0.5 ton JJ on a Spider produces 1 thrust. Therefore a 2 ton JJ on a Highlander should probably produce 4 thrust.

If we mount 4 JJs on a Spider then we would have 4 thurst. 4 JJs on a Highlander would have 16 thrust.

Spider weighs 30 tons, Highlander 90 tons. So the Highlander is 3 times the weight of the Spider BUT.....it has 4 times the thrust. Therefore, 4 JJs on a Highlander should be able to provide AT LEAST the same height, distance and acceleration as 4 JJs on the Spider, well if you look at Power-to-weight ratio.

Instead PGI is not only penalizing Assault mechs by having them mount massively heavy JJs but also making so these MASSSIVE JJs produce less thrust ones half the weight or less. Total BS.

1 bad assumption. Diminishing returns. JJs are powered by the fusion reactor. Since we are talking space magic...er "science", we don't really have "engineering examples, but one can assume that thrust to weight will become less efficient, as the mass increases, since these are not strapon, self contained booster rockets.


I don't disagree the HGN is gimped, but let's face it..... all jumpers are, from where they should be, or did I somehow miss Jenners zipping 150 meters, and landing unscathed somewhere? As for the weight, blame FASA, not PGI.

But since I for one would prefer not to go back to the Meta of the majority of the last year, I will deal with it, even if it means my VTR is not nearly as impressive as it once was.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 July 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

what's the power to thrust ratio?

That sorta matters more than mass.

QFT. I'll settle for acceleration like that if mechs are redesigned to carry as much fuel/tonne and have boosters with the same thrust/tonne as that rocket.

Cataphracts would be a giant fuel tank with feet.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

1 bad assumption. Diminishing returns. JJs are powered by the fusion reactor. Since we are talking space magic...er "science", we don't really have "engineering examples, but one can assume that thrust to weight will become less efficient, as the mass increases, since these are not strapon, self contained booster rockets.


I don't disagree the HGN is gimped, but let's face it..... all jumpers are, from where they should be, or did I somehow miss Jenners zipping 150 meters, and landing unscathed somewhere? As for the weight, blame FASA, not PGI.

But since I for one would prefer not to go back to the Meta of the majority of the last year, I will deal with it, even if it means my VTR is not nearly as impressive as it once was.

But the HGN has been out of the actual meta for a while now, that's why you almost never see them anymore.

Your VTR is almost unscathed, adjust ammo/heatsinks/engine size and you can mount 4 JJs and your are more or less back where you started with a little more jump height. An HGN is now nowhere near the way it was with max jump jets.

[JimboFBX]

The highlander was given poor speed, poor turning, poor arm range because it had jump jet capability.

Now the jump jets are so terrible they are downright near useless.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

But the HGN has been out of the actual meta for a while now, that's why you almost never see them anymore.

Your VTR is almost unscathed, adjust ammo/heatsinks/engine size and you can mount 4 JJs and your are more or less back where you started with a little more jump height. An HGN is now nowhere near the way it was with max jump jets.

Have you driven a Victor? The are not any worse off than they were yesterday, overall. They certainly are not unscathed, as their ground twist rate has been horribly nerfed for months now. It's still mediocre as a Jump Brawler.

Unscathed, indeed!

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Have you driven a Victor? The are not any worse off than they were yesterday, overall. They certainly are not unscathed, as their ground twist rate has been horribly nerfed for months now. It's still mediocre as a Jump Brawler.

Unscathed, indeed!

You must have misunderstood. I just meant through the jump jet changes, they still have enough thrust to jump around effectively with 4 jump jets. I completely agree that the twist rate nerfs were way too drastic. I have definitely driven a Victor. I have 476 drops in Victors since the stat reset.

The real question is, have YOU driven a Highlander since this morning?

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

You must have misunderstood. I just meant through the jump jet changes, they still have enough thrust to jump around effectively with 4 jump jets. I completely agree that the twist rate nerfs were way too drastic. I have definitely driven a Victor. I have 476 drops in Victors since the stat reset.

The real question is, have YOU driven a Highlander since this morning?

Nope. Didn't like them before, so don't need to drive them now that they resemble PIGs that fly (barely) to like them even less. I'm assuming it's somewhere between a Blimp and a Dire Wolf?

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Nope. Didn't like them before, so don't need to drive them now that they resemble PIGs that fly (barely) to like them even less. I'm assuming it's somewhere between a Blimp and a Dire Wolf?

Dude, can you drive the trial one? Take it into the testing grounds so you can at least see what I am talking about.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

yeah, and you really think we will ever see melee?

MW:O is to BattleTech what 50 Shades of Grey is to Twilight. It's fanfic written by someone who fapped ferociously to the original work but has little if anything to do with it, which was little more than fan service to begin with. It's been kicked up a notch to be more sexy and then re-sold to fanbois of the original work, who pay absurd amounts extra for an even more twisted story than the original...

if only because it's better than fantasizing about the same old stuff for 30 years.

We're the 40-something guy equivalent of the 40-something women who buy anything and everything because it's Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey related. If we had more pride we'd be embarrassed.

We don't, so we buy digital mechs and premium time and discuss thrust and Death From Above attacks on pretend 90 ton robots.

Also, PGI is just like E. L. James.

Edited by MischiefSC, 15 July 2014 - 06:54 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

MW:O is to BattleTech what 50 Shades of Grey is to Twilight. It's fanfic written by someone who fapped ferociously to the original work but has little if anything to do with it, which was little more than fan service to begin with. It's been kicked up a notch to be more sexy and then re-sold to fanbois of the original work, who pay absurd amounts extra for an even more twisted story than the original...

if only because it's better than fantasizing about the same old stuff for 30 years.

We're the 40-something guy equivalent of the 40-something women who buy anything and everything because it's Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey related. If we had more pride we'd be embarrassed.

We don't, so we buy digital mechs and premium time and discuss thrust and Death From Above attacks on pretend 90 ton robots.

Also, PGI is just like E. L. James.

I was thinking more along the line of the folks who actually think Richard Marcinko's (Or Lee Child, or insert "tough guy novelist name here") novels have literary value, instead of being the male equivalent to romance novels, but I guess your choices work...have never touched either series, and don't see the appeal to do so.

[tayhimself]

Back on topic, the thrust values for Class I (90-100 ton) JJ's are less than half of that of a Class II (80-90) JJ while weighing twice as much. It makes no sense whatsoever and should be changed.

[Karamarka]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Interesting point of view. So which is heavier, an Assault or one of these:




FYI: Delta IIs weigh over 150 tons, I'll just give you the answer.


I know its not a perfect comparison, but just because its bigger doesn't mean slower. It does have more powerful jump jets that weight 2 tons, so I don't see a reason why it should be so much slower then a Victor/TW/CTF...

Mechwarrior takes place in the year 3000 as well, technology advances! So yeah it's even more dumb when you think of it like that.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Still love my highlander , I took JJ off the day I bought it because think the whole jumping meta thing is silly. The 733 can still do a lot of things well and when you explore non meta builds they can be a lot of fun.