46 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Even with limitations? Same as I.S. 'mechs...

Same as IS mechs?

Alright, Timberwolf, drop the engine to a 350 XL, lose the 5 hardwired heatsinks. You gain 10.5 tons.


So, 38 tons moving at 82 KMh.

With 38 tons, you can fit 2 Gauss rifles, an ERPPC for 30 tons, with 6 tons of ammo and 4 ERSLs?

There's a reason restrictions are in place.

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 July 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Fair enough.

Wiser minds than mine have spoken.

I can't wait to see PGI's ham-handed, knee-jerk series of balance fixes, counter-fixes, counter counter fixes, and rollbacks....

I could wait! It just won't be as fun playing against a "supposedly" superior force rather than a Known superior force.

[Lefty Lucy]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

The ONLY thing OP about the Clan 'mechs is their weapons, (combined with the game breaking mechanic of instant perfect pinpoint convergence + 'mech components)

This is not even close to true. Clan XL, clan ferro, clan endo, and clan DHS are all flat-out better than their IS counterparts, whereas the weapons themselves have disadvantages that at least partially make up for their advantages. OP, your basic premise is flawed.

[Hotthedd]

Lefty Lucy, on 17 July 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

This is not even close to true. Clan XL, clan ferro, clan endo, and clan DHS are all flat-out better than their IS counterparts, whereas the weapons themselves have disadvantages that at least partially make up for their advantages. OP, your basic premise is flawed.

I am sorry. I meant to say the only CUSTOMIZABLE thing that is better (assuming FF, ES, and HS take up less space on a clan mech due to compatibility issues). Of course you are right.

[Clit Beastwood]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Pretty much what I said.

If anyone can (eventually) field the weapons, however, it would equalize the playing field.

I sure would love a spider 5d with 3 clan er-mediums.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Even with limitations? Same as I.S. 'mechs...

Oh yeah. A lot of the Clan mechs have bigger engines than they really need. Allowing us to drop them down in size would give more tonnage to allow the use of lighter weapons and still be faster than the IS counterpart.

On the other hand some mechs have more tonnage than they need and could get a bigger engine. Like a Dire Wolf giving up 10 of its 51(c'mon, we all shaved some leg armor) to get up to 65 kph.

Edited by Rouken, 17 July 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Pjwned]

There's absolutely no sense in completely screwing up the balance only to fix it later, nobody wins in that situation because tons of people would stop playing (and potentially for good) while the drooling pay2win morons would have barely any people to play with and likely stop playing themselves.

[Jiang Wei]

10 vs 12.

Fixed.

[Duran Vancor]

Mcgral18, on 17 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

You want things truly OP? You allow mixtech.

It's as simple as that. The Shadowhawk has the same tonnage available as the Timberwolf at similar speeds. SRM24+2ERLL? With max JJs on a 55 tonner.

GGclose

Hi. You mean like this?

SCR-PRIME

Can't use jumpjets, everything else you want is there. On a Clan, not Innersphere mech obviously.

[Escef]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

We do not even have a game yet.

Oh, so when I stomp around and shoot other mechs, that's somehow not a game? Well, WT* is it then? Exercise? A second job? Where the hell do you guys get these ideas?

[Mcgral18]

Duran Vancor, on 17 July 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Hi. You mean like this?

SCR-PRIME

Can't use jumpjets, everything else you want is there. On a Clan, not Innersphere mech obviously.

Without the SHD hitboxes. Those are very nice, especially compared to the Stormcrow.

Are we talking cXL engines as well? Or same isXLs? SHDs are already pretty darn durable mechs.

[CeeKay Boques]

Jiang Wei, on 17 July 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

10 vs 12.

Fixed.

Maybe. I'd LOVE to try it. Have no premium having Private Matchers done a night of this????

[Duran Vancor]

Mcgral18, on 17 July 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Without the SHD hitboxes. Those are very nice, especially compared to the Stormcrow.

Are we talking cXL engines as well? Or same isXLs? SHDs are already pretty darn durable mechs.

I'm pointing out how you claim a medium with 2 ERLL, 4 SRM6 and JJ is overpowered. I agree and show you how it is already possible. The lack of jumpjets is the only weakness the Stormcrow has (like most mechs, only few have jumjets).

If you have the choice between a cXL and an isXL, why would you ever choose the isXL? Are you trying to point out how the SDH would be more survivable? I would agree, that's why the Stormcrow is a fantastic mech. It can use such a fantastic engine.

[Mcgral18]

Duran Vancor, on 17 July 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

I'm pointing out how you claim a medium with 2 ERLL, 4 SRM6 and JJ is overpowered. I agree and show you how it is already possible. The lack of jumpjets is the only weakness the Stormcrow has (like most mechs, only few have jumjets).

If you have the choice between a cXL and an isXL, why would you ever choose the isXL? Are you trying to point out how the SDH would be more survivable? I would agree, that's why the Stormcrow is a fantastic mech. It can use such a fantastic engine.

The SHD already has fantastic hitboxes, has more tonnage available, or it can go faster. That's with an isXL engine. How about I actually go about doing some math, since I just threw that build without calculating.

cSRM24 is 6 tons, 8 tons for the pair of ERLLs. So, 4 tons of ammo, at least brings us to 18 tons. This fits an XL345 with the max armor, minus 2 from the head with a pair of JJs.

So, very similar, while slightly faster with better hitboxes.

Now, we have the ability to do something your SCR doesn't have. Why don't we downgrade the engine?

Change the ERLLs down to ERMLs, giving us the option for a ballistic. Either a Gauss or a UAC20, both fit in the ST with an isXL engine, or if we have an cXL engine, let's throw an isAC20 in there!

So, with an isXL295, we still move at 96 with 25.5 tons of pod space available. 8 for the 2 SRM6s and 2 SRM4s+ammo (down to 300) will allow us to fit 2 ERMLs with a large ballistic. Let's give it a gauss for some long range poptarting.

12 tons+2.5 ammo, 5 for SRM20 with 3 tons of ammo, 2 for ERMLs gives us the 24.5 tons of pod space, along with 2 JJs.

The Stormcrow can almost do that, but it lacks the tonnage, hardpoints and JJs.


You could swap the Gauss out for either the LB20x or the UAC20, enough crit slots, even with the isXL.

Better hitboxes, similar firepower, JJs and it doesn't even make use of Ferro. Might run a tad hot, but should be manageable.


Would it be OP? It would certainly be good, and people are calling the Timby OP. It would be more versatile than the SCR, especially with the high mounted Gauss.

[Livewyr]

Hotthedd, on 17 July 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Simple answer: Mixtech. At least as far as weapons are concerned.

No thank you, that would literally mean "Clan tech on IS mechs" because clan mechs cannot fit most large IS weapons anywhere.

Unless of course, you want to mix some construction rules like unfixed DHS/Endo/Ferro.. in that case, I will gladly pay the 6 extra tons to get 3 IS AC20s onto the dire wolf. AC60.. bahahahaaahaaaa

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 17 July 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

No thank you, that would literally mean "Clan tech on IS mechs" because clan mechs cannot fit most large IS weapons anywhere.

Unless of course, you want to mix some construction rules like unfixed DHS/Endo/Ferro.. in that case, I will gladly pay the 6 extra tons to get 3 IS AC20s onto the dire wolf. AC60.. bahahahaaahaaaa

I am more than happy to have Sinks unlocked. So long as they are NOT in the engine.

[Roland]

Quote

2. The ONLY thing OP about the Clan 'mechs is their weapons, (combined with the game breaking mechanic of instant perfect pinpoint convergence + 'mech components)

And XL engines which don't kill you from loss of a side torso.
And half size upgrades.
And 2/3 size DHS.

The deal with the clan mechs is that they are less customizable... so some of them are left in a position where they are less useful than they could potentially be (the summoner comes to mind). However, certain mechs like the TW can field exceptionally good builds, such that any limitations in customizability don't really matter much, because they are customizable enough to make awesome mechs.

That being said, even the best of the clan mechs, like the TW, aren't GROSSLY overpowered. Indeed, it could be argued that the TW is simply the best heavy, and since SOME mech has to be the best, it's ok.

The problem, currently, is that if it's the best heavy, then it's bad to have it only available for real currency, for a period of months.

[Void Angel]

Exactly. What's being asked for here - especially if the OP is asking for "canon" Clan technology - is that we make MWO into a sort of LARP of the Clan Invasion from our childhood. Clans seem a little bit overpowered right now, as the Clanners and IS adjust and adapt to the implications of Clan weaponry, but if you simply allowed Clantech to reign unchecked, the health of the game would be severely damaged.

PS: Asking for "10 v. 12. fixed!" is a peurile response which will actually break current balance systems, such as the Rule of Threes.

[Tezcatli]

But wasn't salvaging Clan tech part of the lore as well?

They should allow salvaging of each others items. But have them be destroyable so that people always have to keep salvaging and reduce the chances of IS designs with all clan weaponry. Especially if you make it like 5 random items to the top players on a winning side.

[Asmudius Heng]

Quote

The problem, currently, is that if it's the best heavy, then it's bad to have it only available for real currency, for a period of months.

While that is true I think that if a single mech is so easily understood to be the best in it's class then we will simply see that mech all the time com cbill purchase and the game takes another hit to variety if not "balance"