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Cw: Gameplay Experience Of A Wargame = Forced To Feel War! A Vision!


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#1 Cyborx

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 01:46 PM

Greetings Community, greetings DEVs,
Since the latest change of the MM, there´s a lot of suffering!
Once upon a time, i was proud of winning a match, proud of stomping good or even great teams/units. Nowadays, i feel dirty for winning a match. It feels like aiming a M16 rifle at a kindergarten entrance. I feel embarrassed to play versus "bloody rookies".My biggest concern is that this feeling will never end. It´s no fun for high-ELO players and pure frustration for "rookies and moderate players". Thats the reason why i simply had to start this thread.
First of all, i want to excuse myself for everyone that might feel insulted due to my point of view. Don´t take it personal. This should become a productive thread where you share ideas of improving gameplay experience.
In order to improve a specific situation, the community/the game itself needs all the information that can be gathered.
Since this is my first forum action ever, let me start with a brief introduction of myself. What kind of player is this Cyborx?:I´ve got huge gaming experience. Can u remember the Commodore 64(64KB of RAM - lol)? 25 years have passed. A few of the best games i ever played were text based without any animation at all. (sick, u might think) Let me explain: Those games were one of the best because they managed to feel "real" as soon as you jumped into the offered world. To me it wouldn´t matter if MWO would use vector graphics, black ´n´white only, as long as it manages to affect feelings (the most important part of gameplay exp. IMO).
The most intense gameplay experience i ever was allowed to experience was Doom I (1st person shooter of the first days of PC gaming). The reason for this was the difficulty level you could choose: from rookie to skilled to hardcore (cant remember this unimportant stuff well ) and: NIGHTMARE!
Here´s a taste of it:
The world was conquered by demons after hell´s gate opendend, unleasing death and destruction over the world. Humanity, close to extinction! Someone has to close that gate - Everyone you ever knew , you ever loved isnt just dead, but wandering on the surface of the world God once created -undead! YOU ARE ALONE! It´s up to you!
You start at your home, a former military complex. You know where the exit of the building is , but you need the key for the front entrance. You explore the rooms as you get hit by something in the back. Your view turns red as the blooddrops fall into your eyes - heartbeat instantly skyrocketing by that shock. You shoot the attacker with your 9mm Baretta, more will follow, no worries! You found the key at the end of a narrow corridor, a dead end- it took you 20 seconds to get the key, the corridor behind you is cleared. The last enemy guarding the key needed eight bullets to go down. You find ammo, but three bullets only! ("WTF! are you kiddin´) You want to return to the room you started in and turn around. Another enemy stares at you from that "cleared",narrow, dark corridor. Where did he come from? "Ey, where´s the corpse of the guy, i just shot?" .......
Then you start to realize as the first .12 gauge hits your chest: the corpse isnt gone, it´s standing right in front of you, AGAIN! Staring at you with it´s undead eyes and the smile of invincibility, that only Satan himself could bring into this world.
You shoot IT! and continue your journey. What has changed in your mind?... NOW you know there´s no sense in looking back, there will still be hell! No time to waste! Find the gate ! "If only those wounds could stop bleeding...." Focus! .....The gate .... gate .....gate...
This was the gaming experience of the first two minutes of the first level.
That was the easy part! 30 more level to slaughter trough... 15 Levels and a felt thousand deaths later,i gave up. Phew - it was over!
Would you play this for fun at this skill level? Definetly not! But if you want to play this skill level than for only one reason: COS, U ARE A CHALENGE SEEKER - nothing else! It´s pure horror to dare playing this skill level! Nerve-wrecking! But "EY": what do you expect from a game that covers a story like this?
Shouldn´t every game offer this kind of intensity? YES! Definitely! No doubt about it! Can you force casual players into this world! NEVER! They will run away after 30 seconds of gameplay frustration and never show up again! Let´s go back to MWO.
I´m member of House of Lords. At the moment high-ELO players simply terrorize the community rather "accidently" - it´s not a challenge at all - we dont want this. Actually there are KDR Ratings above 50!!! (lol) due to the clan Invasion and softened MM Parameters. (MM fail / pls dont comment the word "accidently"- let´s be productive)
[but hey DEVS: take your time to gather all the information you need! Keep doing experiments, that´s the only way to get what you need. Balancing a multidimensional equation needs an oracle or a lot of time! I´m sure patience and work will pay off.]
Is it possible to combine both experience offers in a dynamic community warfare world without splitting the community? It is possible, it´s just a matter of how you design a stable, selfregulating system that´s capable of pleasing everyone. But how?
[No one wants to lecture you DEVs, i just couldn´t find your vision of CW in this forum jungle. I only could find some information about unit structures.]
Here are some ideas, wishes ,thoughts of possibilities to combine different skill levels in future encounters of casual players and highest-ELO-players without creating boredom or frustration.

[redacted]

Edited by Egomane, 08 July 2014 - 02:00 PM.
removed the spam at the end


#2 Egomane

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

Where is the suggestion in this post?

Moving to GD

Edited by Egomane, 08 July 2014 - 01:52 PM.


#3 Sandpit

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 01:55 PM

because we needed another duplicate CW thread?

#4 Sug

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

View PostCyborx, on 08 July 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

OP




#5 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

I loved that Movie!

#6 Cyborx

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

You can´t balance a fight between HighELOteams(H) and lowELOteams(L)- its impossible, but you can balance the war for a planet. An example:
3 victories needed to gain control of planet / H wins 1st attack on enemy base, 2 mechs lost and some damadged. Now give team L an opportunity to announce a counterattack and chase down the attackers that need supplies and repairs ( still damadged or 2 mechs down)
counterattack objectives: H wants to reach safe heaven/a base/dropship. L wants take out as many mechs as possible.
Let L use Advantages from 1st battle. I´d like to fight with 10 damadged mechs vs 12 fresh rookie pilots. You think this isn´t fair??? True! War is unfair! In this case its a matter of balance.
There will be more losses for H. It will be exciting for H and satisfying for L. There are only 36 mechs in H´s dropship. Does H have enough material to conquer this "noob" planet under these circumstances? Interesting question? The counterattack is ONLY ALLOWED TO TEAM L !!!
expected gameplay experience boost in detail:
1st)In a war you are forced to make difficult decisions during and before counterattacks. Will H try to protect the slow assault with a damadged hip joint(-10% Speed)and risk to lose the whole 10 mechs or run at full speed to save at least the faster ones? (exciting balancing??)
2nd)heavy meta mechs only all over the place ?? No, not any more. Faster mechs of L make it more likely to catch more of H´s mechs. Should H bring slow assaults only to an attack? H still has to retreat afterwards. Choose wisely H!
3rd)You can run calculated distraction maneuvers: light and mediums of H have to slow down L´s Foxhunt! Or H has to sacrifice a few mechs in a bad position - only for distraction! a bitter trade for H.

Concerning gameplay exp. It´s great to not know if you´ll make it back. L would love to kick High ELO teams. Personally, i wouldn´t mind if i was punished for losing a mech in a battle by a 3 days cooldown for the mech i lost. Could even think about losing a c-bill mech completely , voluntarily.
concerning RPG elements, i want to feel like a character in book. That means this Locust was grandfathers heritage and i´m damn afraid of losing it(voluntarily agreeing on hardcore mode). It´s should feel as if it was worth sth. I want bigger effects then adding a death to a statistic sheet.

.... pls add some comments with more ideas and tactical features.

This time i´ll stop here before this comment becomes too big- like the introduction(im a forum noob)
Wasn´t allowed to continue introduction. It´s late - continue next days with possiblities to bring back non meta mechs to the battlefield. gl hf!

Edited by Cyborx, 08 July 2014 - 03:04 PM.


#7 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:42 PM

Yes, I've played Doom and text only games like Zork. And yes, most people are waiting for Community Warfare. Until then, all we can do kill each other over and over. Oh, and accumulate C-bills.

#8 Davers

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:12 PM

I am not sure what BT era has demons conquering the world. How exactly does this relate to CW again?

#9 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:13 PM

He's talking about the game evoking the feeling of us being in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe. And how it fails to deliver currently because we're playing the same arena shooter on the same maps we've been playing for 2 years.

If they'd just reskinned things a bit, made MWO up to this point play under the guise of Solaris 7. it would have made more sense, simply because there were no real stakes up till now except for gaining C-bills... which Solaris as a setting would have worked perfect for, and it would have been a relatively easy skinning of the UI to evoke a solaris feel.

Sadly OP, I don't think we're ever really going to get that feel. What I will say about MWO, for me. is that the COMBAT presented in Mechwarrior Online, is the truest feeling combat I've seen to date in regards to bringing the feel of the Battletech universe to life. Reading the novels, every time I play, I have moments that just make me stop and think "Wow... this really feels like one of the novels I just read." Which is AWESOME... it gives the battles weight that I didn't feel Mechwarrior 4 had [MW3 did a good job but it was a bit too open in regards to customization for my likes.]

That being said... I don't feel like I'm really in the universe at any point. I don't feel the stakes other than the fact I want to line my wallet with Space bux. And while that's not the worst of motivations, it's not really a good driving force for continual play. Community Warfare will hopefully help bridge that. But we need some more things... what those are at the moment I'm having trouble deciding on. But Community Warfare, in the vien of Chromehounds, would go a long way towards helping this game.

#10 Sean von Steinike

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:36 PM

We'll be lucky to get some sort of Excel spreadsheet for community warfare.

#11 Tyman4

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:07 PM

Up vote. Keep this thread up. OP I totally agree. This game needs some feeling of consequence in it. But we will have to wait for CW, then let the QQ Begin!!!

Tyman

#12 El Bandito

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:18 PM

Until CW comes up, I am going to be raking up the C-Bills. Nothing else matters. Cause there is nothing else.

#13 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:12 AM

CW lol

#14 Cyborx

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

To safe time i´ll throw out some brief statements (problems):

-casual players hate competitive players for destroying their fun (12:0´s in rows /ggclose...)
-competitive players dislike "noobs"/new players (what we once were ourselves)due to a lack of skill
result: frustration within both groups of the ONE COMMUNITY!(???hein???)
no challenge->"damn noob"->"ggclose" and no chance to be a victorious "PUG"->"damn [beep]"->"are you really
having fun like this?" [reasonable question after 2:30 minutes till 12:0 in group queue/"thx 4 that
question - it opened my eyes"]
-competitive players are bored and drown in C-bills and mechs.
-casual players earn less c-bills and have even more disadvantages over time. [not everyone has the
interest/time needed for grinding out the actual OP-super-mech / You´ve got a job/family??? ...]
-PGI might (is going to???) lose customers [imagine the reaction of a rookie facing a horde of
ruthless House of Lords members in his first two drops ->bye bye MWO-interest]
-Why should competitive players feel anything while smashing the .... out of newbies? (simple routine)
["sigh...ok...sigh...bring the next 12 sheeps in...who cares " said the 12 butchers "YAWN"]
-for competitive players only 1 in 20 matches is great/EXCITING/heartbeat-raising (depends on actual
MM-experiment/no accuse).
-each account is a boring one way street: more,more,more of everything until you own everything and
accumulate c-bills only, without any interest in additional growth -> activity-killing-C-bill-CANCER!
[new players want or need this / quite some of longtime competitive players hate this]
-PGI can´t throw out new mechs as fast as competitive players accumulate C-bills (without premium time)
-There is no reason for competitive players to bring a not-meta-mech [stupid or what?? or bored to
death?]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
following lines are more emotional/motivational problems i didn´t notice, mentioned by the community.
I´ll summarize them here, so that every forum reader will save time:
-[line reserved for you!]
-[line reserved for you!]
-[line reserved for you!]
-[line reserved for you!]

the following proposals refer to two interviews about CW by Bryan Ekman:
1st) at 16:00 minutes

2nd)


[give me 24 hours break]
...to be continued... with solutions to improve mentioned statements in a selfregulating system. (add-on of new zone to a house´s territory)
It´s called: [Ha!!!did i wake your interest?])

Edited by Cyborx, 11 July 2014 - 10:41 AM.


#15 Cyborx

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:19 AM

Posted Image

Here´s my proposal. First, let me describe what you see on this edited map. Then i´ll describe ist mechanics/rules. And finally i´ll explain how and why it will unite the community how it will please everyones feelings and demands. Finally i´ll work out the benefits for all included parties (PGI/casuals/competitives).
- the frontlines of red, green and yellow color are frontline-territories that can be flipped by
controlling all planets within it. Then the next frontline-area can be attacked.
- the red marked territory at the far left can´t be captured [extiction of a house is impossible]
- The purple area is a new kind of territory, THE HARDCORE AREA!
This hardcore area is the key to get rid of all the problems within the (two)cummunitie(s).It also solves the balancing- and motivational problems PGI has to face. It is part of the core of a faction/ house with very tough and special rules.
Let me explain the rules for purple/hardcore territories:

- any attacking forces (here: Free Rasalhague Republic) will suffer REAL LOSSES. [Your mech gets
destroyed during battle means it will be deleted -> the mechbay is now empty/mech gone forever, used
modules included/loss of dropships and jumpships possible).
- successful attack ends in occupation and unlocks "something special" as long as it is controlled.
- mechwarriors or defenders (simply: every member of the red area´s house (here: Federated
Commommwealth))that "dare" an attempt to defend or regain control suffer NO LOSSES.

This is the main part of the special rules. Right now, no one will be stupid enough to attack those areas. Why should you dare an attack???
Let´s talk about motivation/benefits/circumstances needed:
-Occupation unlocks special advantages (huge ones)for a whole faction(limited time only). That´s the
motivation to hire a High-ELO MERC UNIT [like the most popular clans that took part in RHoD
tournaments].YES! This contract will be top-notch/very expensive. Thousands of players alltogether/ a
whole faction will pay for it, voluntarily! in the hope to get a good "return of investment".
-Why should casual players try to defend/regain control of these areas? We once destroyed their fun -
they don´t want to fight Highest-ELO! Let´s change this with some candy for casuals:
-Casual players will definetly get slaughtered one after another , BUT... you´ll get
a 10% chance of salvaging a mech you killed and add some feelings/some pride to
it. That´s means: getting slaughtered horribly (present point of view)with an 12-2
loss might make you cheer as if it was a victory ( maybe you´ll earn 20 Million c-
bills with a single kill, if you give your best and are a bit lucky!)
-about pride and honour: actually everyone is able to have a look at your mechbay at
the mwomercs.com - profile. What does your mechbay express? Nowadays it just says you
like MWO and invested some money or that you´ve got rich parents - nothing to be
proud of! Same with achievements.They are like waste, you simply can´t avoid it´s
creation.nothing to be proud of. BUT WHAT IF ALL THE WORLD COULD READ THIS:

JM6-DD:
salvadged at the glorious battle for Ascari V, homeplanet of the legendary Kell-Hound Merc corp vs House of Lords(or look at RHoD participant list)[wrong lore -info - i´ll correct it later/enough time spent]

Wouldn´t you be damn proud as a casual Player, that was tortured by House of Lords and some others for 1,5 years?
Would this motivate you to face HoL and other high-ELO-Teams, to help defending hardcore areas?

[These special rules need one exception/protection rule against exploits:
like mentioned before you must have a look at the ELO-DIFFERENCE.
If 1st class Units (e.g:ELO-Rating =2000) "defend"/camp a hardcore world vs a 2nd class unit (e.g: ELO-Rating=1500)there will be no real losses for the 2nd class team because it was an unfair match. But who cares? Everyone got served what they wanted.
Both teams wanted the best fight possible - achieved! And 1st class Units dont need salvage anymore. Who is proud of salvaging a noobs mechs?]

Edited by Cyborx, 13 July 2014 - 10:13 AM.


#16 Cyborx

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:38 AM

actual balancing concerns:
-competitive units would conquer as much as possible and lock the last frontline directly at the
border of uncappable territory.
-as mentioned: suffering here,frustration there!

effect of those hardcore zones on balance and gameplay:
-different difficulty levels available: the closer you get to those hardcore Areas, the tougher the fights will be!
[if you are not interested in tough fights, fight in the regular frontlines/ great units will be around these areas and wait for contracts to refinance losses. Please don´t complain ,nowadays you simply get unlucky by being in a drop against us and can´t help yourself about it! You had no choice,but this can change]
-it will be possible to defeat/push back great units at least for a while. Hordes of casual Players
will cause so many real losses, that competitive units must retreat. For comp. players it will feel
like never ending waves of attacks- (frightening!)Masses will outweigh skill for the first time in
MWO!
-regular frontlines will not be dominated by strong units only, because they are boring. Just like the
not existing challenge today.[regular frontline battle?Yawn ->No,thx]
-Competitives will have to make tough decisions as Long as there are real losses. Should they bring
expensive metamechs or cheaper non-meta-mechs. [its better to lose two Battlemasters worth 15 Million
each then losing a top-notch Timberwolf for 40 Million c-bills. This will just need a good economical
system with high demand - high price relation.]
-The latest OP-mechs are always available for MC-only during the first month. No competitive player
will bring these to hardcore battles and eventually lose it. Competitive players will use an older
generation of mechs[c-bill], which makes it easier for casuals to compete. If someone really wants to
bring MC mechs to those battles: congrats PGI for some extra income or congrats proud salvager!

effects on the community:
-less frustration on both on both sides [casuals and competitives].Choose skill level by
position on the map [like in every other game without fix difficulty level].
-bigger interest in getting organised and forming new clans/Units. Training will be
profitable for your mechbay.Final result is a rising interest in competition.
-casuals will have their own playground , competitives will have thiers, but there won´t be
any hard borders in between.
-High-ELO-Units will serve the community by achieving the biggest bonus for their actual house/contractor instead of "ggclosing" everyone due to a lack of challenge and pure fustration about it!
-Competitives will finally have their intensification of gameplay experience and discover a new feeling of team solidarity and excitement. [I save you and you save me! a real brothers-in-arms-Feeling due to real effects of losses].

Edited by Cyborx, 13 July 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#17 Kyrie

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

This thread makes me sad. I also was fond of posting multi-page spam on CW (see link at sig). Ahh, the good old days.

#18 Cyborx

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:26 AM

And here comes PGI´s candy:
-no more losses of frustrated customers due to "unbeatable","legendary[???]" units.
-a very small continous extra income: No average player wants to sell a salvaged mech[he´s proud of
owning a former e.g. House of Lords -mech] That means he´ll need a cheap new mechbay.[one Dollar or
whatever] just to be prepared for the next hardcore denfense Mission.
-maybe Access to E-sports -> rise in popularity, because the game would satisfy everyone.
-With a connection between pride,skill and LORE, you could bring newbies into contact with the story
of battletech in general and maybe turn simple customers into real fans!

Have fun discussing (pls be productive and know it´s all voluntarily!]

see you at the battlefield
gg&respect!
Cyborx

Edited by Cyborx, 13 July 2014 - 10:31 AM.


#19 Karamarka

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:34 AM

CW will add depth and longevity to keep people playing and for you RUSS. MORE PEOPLE PAYING $$$$$$

Edited by Karamarka, 13 July 2014 - 10:34 AM.


#20 Sephlock

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:48 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 08 July 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Until CW comes up, I am going to be raking up the C-Bills. Nothing else matters. Cause there is nothing else.

Look at the bright side kid, you get to keep all the money.







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