22 replies to this topic

[TimePeriod]

Hello! TP here.

(IS ONLY)
Just want to raise a bit of a discussion regarding the (in)famous oversized toasters we call pulse lasers. My question is this:

Why should I use them?

- Way too much heat.
- Way too heavy.
- Far better alternatives.

In my eyes the pulse lasers are not really a valid option.

The drawbacks far outweighs the benefits.

The battlefield today is dominated by autocannons, missiles, PPCs and gauss rifles. I don't see large energy boats everywhere because the darn things overheat far too much to be of any real tactical use. You have to move in and out of combat quickly and put some damage downrange in the instant you spot an enemy.

In other words, pulse lasers should do well! Except they don't.
Chained by far too much heat, far too short range and far too much tonnage they are left behind in the 'Mech Depot.

-

I base this on my Stalker-M which can do quite well as an energy boat but since 'energy boat' is an oxymoron I will have to leave it at that.

-

[SprechenSieSexy]

I've been fooling around with medium PL.
They seem to do allright, though not as "good" as the dual ER PPC & Gauss everyone is using.

[Tezcatli]

They need to reduce the heat across the board on pulse weapons. They're quite the investment in weight and then you have to deal with the increased heat.

[Phenakist]

Actually I have found a use for them. They seem best suited to multi range roll mechs/builds where hardpoints are relatively low and you use different hardpoints for different ranges.

For example, I am currently using a BLR-1s with 4MPL's and lrm 10(x2) lrm 5(x2). I found that with medium lasers the extra range wasnt necessary due to my LRM usage but also the heat wasnt manageable with sustained lrm fire. With med pulses, when I need to use close range.. they are all I use so heat isnt an issue and the added RoF + damage is very welcomed for emergency brawling situations

[Zyllos]

Ya, I think reducing the heat should be good enough for pulse lasers.

[OznerpaG]

pulses should be brawling weapons so should have shorter range (half) but higher damage (50% more) and shorter burn time (50% less) than normal lasers - why their range keeps getting bumped up has been confusing me for a looooong time...

they need their own niche, and right now they'v got nothing

Edited by JagdFlanker, 20 July 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The Pulse Lasers are being hampered by the lore in weight and by obsolete PGI "quick fixes" in heat generation. The weight is the real concern. The small and medium pulse lasers each weigh twice that of their standard counterparts and receive only a tiny boost in damage. A more realistic weight trade would be a 50% increase over the standard laser, making the small and medium pulse 0.75 and 1.5 tons, respectively. The Large Pulse is currently the only Pulse Laser that is worth its weight and heat trade, and only because it's superior to any PPC at ranges under 350 meters due to all large laser types in this game generating significantly less heat than in TT.

Still, pulse lasers do have some uses as they are now. I put the Small Pulse on my LCT-3M and LCT-1E so that I can dump damage without having to worry about spread too much. I put the Large Pulse and two Medium Pulse on my Arrow because trying to play the long-range poking game with ERLL is stupid on a 'Mech designed for brawling DPS and without the armour to stand up to the likes of the Shadowhawk and Timberwolf in playing whack-a-mole. It seems to work pretty well, much better than my old asymmetric AC/5 build did.

[Undercover Brother]

I've had so much luck with small and medium pulse lasers, it's kinda sick.

Mediums and lights take full advantage of these high powered alternatives when they need speed, and the ability to hit hard with pinpoint precision. Have you ever seen how devastating a full barrage of 9 SPLAS on a fast Hunchback can be to an Atlas' rear torso? They burn through armor and cause internal damage in just 2 hits! Throw 4 MGs and a MPLAS on a Locust, and you actually have a pretty scary foe for any slow heavy or assault. Don't get me started on a Jenner with 4 SPLAS and 2 standard Medium lasers.

I use my pulse lasers to strip away the last bits of remaining armor, and then crit-seeking. For that, only ballistic weapons do better, and aside from the machine guns, even AC/2s can be a pain to use, due to weight, space, and ammunition dependence. Take away the range factor, and 1 MPLAS takes up 1 crit, and do 2 DMG, and weighs 2T, whereas the AC/2 and ammo take 2 crits, weigh 6 tons, and have limited ammo. I'll take the MPLAS if I'm rung a light. It leaves me with more room for engine, armor, extra DHS, and more weapons.

[Yokaiko]

TimePeriod, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hello! TP here.

(IS ONLY)
Just want to raise a bit of a discussion regarding the (in)famous oversized toasters we call pulse lasers. My question is this:

Why should I use them?

- Way too much heat.
- Way too heavy.
- Far better alternatives.

In my eyes the pulse lasers are not really a valid option.

The drawbacks far outweighs the benefits.

The battlefield today is dominated by autocannons, missiles, PPCs and gauss rifles. I don't see large energy boats everywhere because the darn things overheat far too much to be of any real tactical use. You have to move in and out of combat quickly and put some damage downrange in the instant you spot an enemy.

In other words, pulse lasers should do well! Except they don't.
Chained by far too much heat, far too short range and far too much tonnage they are left behind in the 'Mech Depot.

-

I base this on my Stalker-M which can do quite well as an energy boat but since 'energy boat' is an oxymoron I will have to leave it at that.

-

Clan pulse lasers are actually WORSE in comparison.

[Roland]

Pulse lasers are generally terrible weapons which should only be used in very specific edge cases... and even in those cases, it's debatable.

The standard version of lasers are generally superior, in that they will end up delivering more damage to targets in practical use cases due to their significant range advantages.

[Xarian]

MPLs are fearsome weapons, but the extra ton of space is rarely worth it. LPLs, on the other hand, are pretty nice. They're basically shorter-range PPCs with less heat.

[Clydewinder]

I use them often. 2 Med pulse - more damage and less tonnage than one large. Also quicker burn time and fire rate, at the expense of range.

[Roland]

Clydewinder, on 20 July 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

I use them often. 2 Med pulse - more damage and less tonnage than one large. Also quicker burn time and fire rate, at the expense of range.

You would almost certainly be better off with 2 standard medium lasers.

[Mcgral18]

Too hot, too short, too heavy.

If they were just short range and heavy, I could deal with it. As it stands, even the mighty WubShee is a bit of a joke.
Alright, a very big joke.

A potential fix would be just to make them equal in heat to their standard versions. They get more damage in less time, for the same heat at a much shorter range.

Two positives, and two negatives, instead of a single positive aspect against 3 negative.

A whole new mechanic would be nice, but they can be salvaged in their current state.

[Clydewinder]

Roland, on 20 July 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

You would almost certainly be better off with 2 standard medium lasers.

Well I use those at times too on big slow things... but my faster mechs, i.e. Blackjacks, Dragons, Quickdraws, etc... I find the quick burn time of the pulse laser to be superior- in fact I would say for consistent damage landed against a moving target, 2 MPL is better than 4 ML - at least in my experience.

[Mcgral18]

Clydewinder, on 20 July 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Well I use those at times too on big slow things... but my faster mechs, i.e. Blackjacks, Dragons, Quickdraws, etc... I find the quick burn time of the pulse laser to be superior- in fact I would say for consistent damage landed against a moving target, 2 MPL is better than 4 ML - at least in my experience.

Well, they would actually have ...the same damage in that time frame. 60% of 20 damage is 12.

Less range, but also less heat. Both a pro and a con, so it's up to you really.

[Roland]

Clydewinder, on 20 July 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Well I use those at times too on big slow things... but my faster mechs, i.e. Blackjacks, Dragons, Quickdraws, etc... I find the quick burn time of the pulse laser to be superior- in fact I would say for consistent damage landed against a moving target, 2 MPL is better than 4 ML - at least in my experience.

No, 4 ML is most certainly going to give you much better damage than 2 MPL.
Each MPL will do 10 damage per second of firing time. Each ML will do 5 damage per second of firing time.

So, even if you restricted your range to where MPL's were maximally effective (less than 220 meters), the damage for any period of time for the medium lasers will be exactly equal to the MPL's.

But then when you factor in the fact that you will want to be shooting at targets that are further away, and for all of those shots the Medium Lasers will do MORE damage, it becomes apparent how the MPL's is generally just a bad weapon all around.

The only time I'd ever consider using it is if you are hardpoint and critical slot constrained, where you only have one slot for a weapon, and you have a free ton of weight.. such as some spider builds. But it turns out, even in those cases? The medium laser still tends to beat the pulse laser just due to range advantages.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

TimePeriod, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hello! TP here.

In my eyes the pulse lasers are not really a valid option.

The drawbacks far outweighs the benefits.

You pretty much summed up the state of Pulse Lasers. They suck.


The only way for them to be good is for a complete weapon mechanic re-haul.

In actuality, they should be a completely unique weapon system apart from standard beam lasers. Many MANY suggestions have come up to treat them more like BT described "laser machine guns".

For instance, the Large Pulse Laser would instead shoot ~5x 2 damage direct fire hitscan beams over a ~1 second duration while the trigger is held down. (Numbers are just examples on how it would function) Releasing the trigger early would stop firing and begin the weapon recycle from there. (Each L8z0r beam taking away 1/5 the recycle bar, so shooting less beams would be ideal for heat management or disciplined fire). This mechanic would also translate well for the +1 accuracy in TT that pulse lasers had over standard beam lasers, as the pilot has FAR more control over the weapon and where the damage is being put down.


There! Pulse lasers now entirely effective and a great new arsenal to many mechs!

Edited by mwhighlander, 20 July 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

I'm fond of the idea that additional opportunities to use a weapon to it's full potential is extra firepower.
The extra range you get from a standard laser more than makes up for it's spread. Besides that there is also the heat issue.

You can fire a standard laser more often due to less heat and you can use the extra tonnage to mount more heatsinks to make it even better.
Pulse lasers right now have no real place. I'd say they should lessen the burn time so that pulse lasers become more pinpointy weapons.

[Mainhunter]

LPulse should have max. 6 tonns. I play a lot with them, just for fun. But on the other hand, my best k/d I have in an Lpulse only mech.